
[Applause] who do you want to be it’s a simple
who do you want to be it’s a simple
who do you want to be it’s a simple question and whether you know it or not
question and whether you know it or not
question and whether you know it or not you’re answering it every day through
you’re answering it every day through
you’re answering it every day through your actions this one question will
your actions this one question will
your actions this one question will define your professional success more
define your professional success more
define your professional success more than any other because how you show up
than any other because how you show up
than any other because how you show up in treat people means everything either
in treat people means everything either
in treat people means everything either you lift people up by respecting them
you lift people up by respecting them
you lift people up by respecting them making them feel valued appreciated and
making them feel valued appreciated and
making them feel valued appreciated and heard or you hold people down by making
heard or you hold people down by making
heard or you hold people down by making them feel small insulted disregarded or
them feel small insulted disregarded or
them feel small insulted disregarded or excluded and who you choose to be means
excluded and who you choose to be means
excluded and who you choose to be means everything I study the effects of
everything I study the effects of
everything I study the effects of incivility on people
incivility on people
incivility on people what is incivility it’s disrespect or
what is incivility it’s disrespect or
what is incivility it’s disrespect or rudeness it includes a lot of different
rudeness it includes a lot of different
rudeness it includes a lot of different behaviors from mocking or belittling
behaviors from mocking or belittling
behaviors from mocking or belittling someone to teasing people in ways that
someone to teasing people in ways that
someone to teasing people in ways that sting to telling offensive jokes to
sting to telling offensive jokes to
sting to telling offensive jokes to texting and meetings and what’s uncivil
texting and meetings and what’s uncivil
texting and meetings and what’s uncivil to one person may be absolutely fine to
to one person may be absolutely fine to
to one person may be absolutely fine to another take texting while someone’s
another take texting while someone’s
another take texting while someone’s speaking to you some of us may find it
speaking to you some of us may find it
speaking to you some of us may find it rude others may think it’s absolutely
rude others may think it’s absolutely
rude others may think it’s absolutely civil so it really depends it’s all in
civil so it really depends it’s all in
civil so it really depends it’s all in the eyes of the beholder
the eyes of the beholder
the eyes of the beholder and whether that person felt
and whether that person felt
and whether that person felt disrespected we may not mean to make
disrespected we may not mean to make
disrespected we may not mean to make someone feel that way but when we do it
someone feel that way but when we do it
someone feel that way but when we do it has consequences over 22 years ago I
has consequences over 22 years ago I
has consequences over 22 years ago I vividly recall walking into the stuffy
vividly recall walking into the stuffy
vividly recall walking into the stuffy hospital room it was heartbreaking to
hospital room it was heartbreaking to
hospital room it was heartbreaking to see my dad the strong athletic energetic
see my dad the strong athletic energetic
see my dad the strong athletic energetic guy lying in the bed with electrodes
guy lying in the bed with electrodes
guy lying in the bed with electrodes strapped to his bare chest what put him
strapped to his bare chest what put him
strapped to his bare chest what put him there
there
there was work-related stress for over a
was work-related stress for over a
was work-related stress for over a decade he suffered an uncivil boss and
decade he suffered an uncivil boss and
decade he suffered an uncivil boss and for me I thought he was just an outlier
for me I thought he was just an outlier
for me I thought he was just an outlier at that time but just a couple years
at that time but just a couple years
at that time but just a couple years later I witnessed and experienced a lot
later I witnessed and experienced a lot
later I witnessed and experienced a lot of incivility
of incivility
of incivility in my first job out of college I spent a
in my first job out of college I spent a
in my first job out of college I spent a year going to work every day and hearing
year going to work every day and hearing
year going to work every day and hearing things from co-workers like are you an
things from co-workers like are you an
things from co-workers like are you an idiot
idiot
idiot that’s not how it’s done and if I wanted
that’s not how it’s done and if I wanted
that’s not how it’s done and if I wanted your opinion I’d ask so I did the
your opinion I’d ask so I did the
your opinion I’d ask so I did the natural thing I quit and I went back to
natural thing I quit and I went back to
natural thing I quit and I went back to grad school to study the effects of this
grad school to study the effects of this
grad school to study the effects of this and there I met Christine Pearson and
and there I met Christine Pearson and
and there I met Christine Pearson and she had a theory that small on civil
she had a theory that small on civil
she had a theory that small on civil actions can lead to much bigger problems
actions can lead to much bigger problems
actions can lead to much bigger problems like aggression and violence
like aggression and violence
like aggression and violence we believe that incivility affected
we believe that incivility affected
we believe that incivility affected performance in the bottom line so we
performance in the bottom line so we
performance in the bottom line so we launched a study and what we found was I
launched a study and what we found was I
launched a study and what we found was I openin we sent a survey to Business
openin we sent a survey to Business
openin we sent a survey to Business School alumni working in all different
School alumni working in all different
School alumni working in all different organizations and we asked them to write
organizations and we asked them to write
organizations and we asked them to write a few sentences about one experience
a few sentences about one experience
a few sentences about one experience where they were treated rudely
where they were treated rudely
where they were treated rudely disrespectfully and sensitively and to
disrespectfully and sensitively and to
disrespectfully and sensitively and to answer questions about how they reacted
answer questions about how they reacted
answer questions about how they reacted one person told us about a boss that
one person told us about a boss that
one person told us about a boss that made insulting statements like that’s
made insulting statements like that’s
made insulting statements like that’s kindergarteners work and another tore up
kindergarteners work and another tore up
kindergarteners work and another tore up someone’s work in front of the entire
someone’s work in front of the entire
someone’s work in front of the entire team and what we found is that
team and what we found is that
team and what we found is that incivility made people less motivated
incivility made people less motivated
incivility made people less motivated 66% cut back work efforts 80% lost time
66% cut back work efforts 80% lost time
66% cut back work efforts 80% lost time worrying about what happened and 12%
worrying about what happened and 12%
worrying about what happened and 12% left their jobs and after we published
left their jobs and after we published
left their jobs and after we published these results two things happen one we
these results two things happen one we
these results two things happen one we got calls from organizations Cisco read
got calls from organizations Cisco read
got calls from organizations Cisco read about these numbers took just a few of
about these numbers took just a few of
about these numbers took just a few of these an estimated conservatively
these an estimated conservatively
these an estimated conservatively incivility was costing them 12 million
incivility was costing them 12 million
incivility was costing them 12 million dollars a year the second thing that
dollars a year the second thing that
dollars a year the second thing that happened was that we heard from others
happened was that we heard from others
happened was that we heard from others in our academic field who said well
in our academic field who said well
in our academic field who said well people are reporting this but how can
people are reporting this but how can
people are reporting this but how can you really show it does peoples
you really show it does peoples
you really show it does peoples performance really suffer I was curious
performance really suffer I was curious
performance really suffer I was curious about that too with the MIR eras I
about that too with the MIR eras I
about that too with the MIR eras I compared those that experienced
compared those that experienced
compared those that experienced incivility to those that didn’t
incivility to those that didn’t
incivility to those that didn’t experience incivility and what we found
experience incivility and what we found
experience incivility and what we found is that those that experienced
is that those that experienced
is that those that experienced incivility do actually function much
incivility do actually function much
incivility do actually function much worse
worse
worse okay you may say this makes sense after
okay you may say this makes sense after
okay you may say this makes sense after all it’s natural that their performance
all it’s natural that their performance
all it’s natural that their performance suffers but what about if you’re not the
suffers but what about if you’re not the
suffers but what about if you’re not the one who experiences it what if you just
one who experiences it what if you just
one who experiences it what if you just see or hear it you’re a witness we
see or hear it you’re a witness we
see or hear it you’re a witness we wondered if it affected witnesses too so
wondered if it affected witnesses too so
wondered if it affected witnesses too so we conducted studies where five
we conducted studies where five
we conducted studies where five participants would witness an experiment
participants would witness an experiment
participants would witness an experiment or act rudely who someone who arrived
or act rudely who someone who arrived
or act rudely who someone who arrived late to the study the experimenter said
late to the study the experimenter said
late to the study the experimenter said what is it with you you arrive late
what is it with you you arrive late
what is it with you you arrive late you’re irresponsible look at you how do
you’re irresponsible look at you how do
you’re irresponsible look at you how do you expect to hold a job in the real
you expect to hold a job in the real
you expect to hold a job in the real world and in another study in a small
world and in another study in a small
world and in another study in a small group we tested the effects of a peer
group we tested the effects of a peer
group we tested the effects of a peer insulting a group member now what we
insulting a group member now what we
insulting a group member now what we found was really interesting because
found was really interesting because
found was really interesting because witnesses performance decreased – and
witnesses performance decreased – and
witnesses performance decreased – and not just marginally quite significantly
not just marginally quite significantly
not just marginally quite significantly incivility is a bug it’s contagious and
incivility is a bug it’s contagious and
incivility is a bug it’s contagious and we become carriers of it just by being
we become carriers of it just by being
we become carriers of it just by being around it and this isn’t confined to the
around it and this isn’t confined to the
around it and this isn’t confined to the workplace we can catch this virus
workplace we can catch this virus
workplace we can catch this virus anywhere at home online in schools and
anywhere at home online in schools and
anywhere at home online in schools and in our communities it affects our
in our communities it affects our
in our communities it affects our emotions our motivation our performance
emotions our motivation our performance
emotions our motivation our performance and how we treat others it even affects
and how we treat others it even affects
and how we treat others it even affects our attention and could take some of our
our attention and could take some of our
our attention and could take some of our brain power and this happens not only if
brain power and this happens not only if
brain power and this happens not only if we experience incivility or we witness
we experience incivility or we witness
we experience incivility or we witness it it can happen even if we just see or
it it can happen even if we just see or
it it can happen even if we just see or read rude words let me give you an
read rude words let me give you an
read rude words let me give you an example of what I mean to test this we
example of what I mean to test this we
example of what I mean to test this we gave people combinations of words to use
gave people combinations of words to use
gave people combinations of words to use to make a sentence but we were very
to make a sentence but we were very
to make a sentence but we were very sneaky half the participants got a list
sneaky half the participants got a list
sneaky half the participants got a list with 15 words used to trigger rudeness
with 15 words used to trigger rudeness
with 15 words used to trigger rudeness and politely interrupt obnoxious bother
and politely interrupt obnoxious bother
and politely interrupt obnoxious bother half the participants received a list of
half the participants received a list of
half the participants received a list of words with none of these rude triggers
words with none of these rude triggers
words with none of these rude triggers and what we found was really surprising
and what we found was really surprising
and what we found was really surprising because the people who got the rude
because the people who got the rude
because the people who got the rude words were 5 times more likely to miss
words were 5 times more likely to miss
words were 5 times more likely to miss information right in front of them on
information right in front of them on
information right in front of them on the computer screen
the computer screen
the computer screen and as week we continued this research
and as week we continued this research
and as week we continued this research what we found is that those that read
what we found is that those that read
what we found is that those that read the rude words took longer to make
the rude words took longer to make
the rude words took longer to make decisions to record their decisions and
decisions to record their decisions and
decisions to record their decisions and they made significantly more errors this
they made significantly more errors this
they made significantly more errors this can be a big deal especially when it
can be a big deal especially when it
can be a big deal especially when it comes to life-and-death situations Steve
comes to life-and-death situations Steve
comes to life-and-death situations Steve a physician told me about a doctor that
a physician told me about a doctor that
a physician told me about a doctor that he worked with who was never very
he worked with who was never very
he worked with who was never very respectful
respectful
respectful especially to junior staff and nurses
especially to junior staff and nurses
especially to junior staff and nurses but Steve told me about this one
but Steve told me about this one
but Steve told me about this one particular interaction where this doctor
particular interaction where this doctor
particular interaction where this doctor shouted at a medical team right after
shouted at a medical team right after
shouted at a medical team right after the interaction the team gave the wrong
the interaction the team gave the wrong
the interaction the team gave the wrong dosage of medication to their patient
dosage of medication to their patient
dosage of medication to their patient Steve said the information was right
Steve said the information was right
Steve said the information was right there on the chart but somehow everyone
there on the chart but somehow everyone
there on the chart but somehow everyone on the team missed it he said they
on the team missed it he said they
on the team missed it he said they lacked the attention or awareness to
lacked the attention or awareness to
lacked the attention or awareness to take it into account
take it into account
take it into account simple mistake right will that patient
simple mistake right will that patient
simple mistake right will that patient died
died
died researchers in Israel have actually
researchers in Israel have actually
researchers in Israel have actually shown that medical teams exposed to
shown that medical teams exposed to
shown that medical teams exposed to rudeness perform worse not only in all
rudeness perform worse not only in all
rudeness perform worse not only in all their Diagnostics but in all the
their Diagnostics but in all the
their Diagnostics but in all the procedures they did this was mainly
procedures they did this was mainly
procedures they did this was mainly because the team’s exposed to rudeness
because the team’s exposed to rudeness
because the team’s exposed to rudeness didn’t share information as readily and
didn’t share information as readily and
didn’t share information as readily and they stopped seeking help from their
they stopped seeking help from their
they stopped seeking help from their teammates and I see this not only in
teammates and I see this not only in
teammates and I see this not only in medicine but in all industries so if
medicine but in all industries so if
medicine but in all industries so if incivility has such a huge cost why do
incivility has such a huge cost why do
incivility has such a huge cost why do we still see so much of it
we still see so much of it
we still see so much of it I was curious so we surveyed people
I was curious so we surveyed people
I was curious so we surveyed people about this too the number one reason is
about this too the number one reason is
about this too the number one reason is stress people feel overwhelmed the other
stress people feel overwhelmed the other
stress people feel overwhelmed the other reason that people are not more civil is
reason that people are not more civil is
reason that people are not more civil is because they’re skeptical and even
because they’re skeptical and even
because they’re skeptical and even concerned about being civil or appearing
concerned about being civil or appearing
concerned about being civil or appearing nice they believe they’ll appear less
nice they believe they’ll appear less
nice they believe they’ll appear less leader like they wonder do nice guys
leader like they wonder do nice guys
leader like they wonder do nice guys finish last or in other words do jerks
finish last or in other words do jerks
finish last or in other words do jerks get ahead it’s easy to think so
get ahead it’s easy to think so
get ahead it’s easy to think so especially when we see a few prominent
especially when we see a few prominent
especially when we see a few prominent examples that dominate the conversation
examples that dominate the conversation
examples that dominate the conversation well turns out in the long run they
well turns out in the long run they
well turns out in the long run they don’t there’s really rich research on
don’t there’s really rich research on
don’t there’s really rich research on this by Morgan McCall and Michael
this by Morgan McCall and Michael
this by Morgan McCall and Michael Lombardo where
Lombardo where
Lombardo where anywhere at the center for creative
anywhere at the center for creative
anywhere at the center for creative leadership and they found the number one
leadership and they found the number one
leadership and they found the number one reason tied to executive failure was an
reason tied to executive failure was an
reason tied to executive failure was an insensitive abrasive or bullying style
insensitive abrasive or bullying style
insensitive abrasive or bullying style there will always be some outliers that
there will always be some outliers that
there will always be some outliers that succeed despite their incivility sooner
succeed despite their incivility sooner
succeed despite their incivility sooner or later though most uncivil people
or later though most uncivil people
or later though most uncivil people sabotage their success for example with
sabotage their success for example with
sabotage their success for example with uncivil executives it comes back to hurt
uncivil executives it comes back to hurt
uncivil executives it comes back to hurt them when they’re in a place of weakness
them when they’re in a place of weakness
them when they’re in a place of weakness or they need something people won’t have
or they need something people won’t have
or they need something people won’t have their backs but what about nice guys
their backs but what about nice guys
their backs but what about nice guys does civility pay yes it does and being
does civility pay yes it does and being
does civility pay yes it does and being civil doesn’t just mean that you’re not
civil doesn’t just mean that you’re not
civil doesn’t just mean that you’re not a jerk
a jerk
a jerk not holding someone down isn’t the same
not holding someone down isn’t the same
not holding someone down isn’t the same as lifting them up being truly civil
as lifting them up being truly civil
as lifting them up being truly civil means doing the small things like
means doing the small things like
means doing the small things like smiling and saying hello in the hallway
smiling and saying hello in the hallway
smiling and saying hello in the hallway listening fully when someone’s speaking
listening fully when someone’s speaking
listening fully when someone’s speaking to you now you can have strong opinions
to you now you can have strong opinions
to you now you can have strong opinions disagree have conflict or give negative
disagree have conflict or give negative
disagree have conflict or give negative feedback civilly with respect some
feedback civilly with respect some
feedback civilly with respect some people call it radical candor where you
people call it radical candor where you
people call it radical candor where you care personally but you challenge
care personally but you challenge
care personally but you challenge directly so yes
directly so yes
directly so yes civility pays in a biotechnology firm
civility pays in a biotechnology firm
civility pays in a biotechnology firm colleagues and I found that those that
colleagues and I found that those that
colleagues and I found that those that were seen as civil were twice as likely
were seen as civil were twice as likely
were seen as civil were twice as likely to be viewed as leaders and they perform
to be viewed as leaders and they perform
to be viewed as leaders and they perform significantly better
significantly better
significantly better why does civility pay because people see
why does civility pay because people see
why does civility pay because people see you is an important and a powerful
you is an important and a powerful
you is an important and a powerful unique combination of two key
unique combination of two key
unique combination of two key characteristics warm and competent
characteristics warm and competent
characteristics warm and competent friendly and smart in other words being
friendly and smart in other words being
friendly and smart in other words being civil isn’t just about motivating others
civil isn’t just about motivating others
civil isn’t just about motivating others it’s about you if you’re civil you’re
it’s about you if you’re civil you’re
it’s about you if you’re civil you’re more likely to be seen as a leader
more likely to be seen as a leader
more likely to be seen as a leader you’ll perform better and you’re seen as
you’ll perform better and you’re seen as
you’ll perform better and you’re seen as warm and competent but there’s an even
warm and competent but there’s an even
warm and competent but there’s an even bigger story about how civility pays and
bigger story about how civility pays and
bigger story about how civility pays and it ties to one of the most important
it ties to one of the most important
it ties to one of the most important questions around leadership what do
questions around leadership what do
questions around leadership what do people want most from their leaders we
people want most from their leaders we
people want most from their leaders we took data from over 20,000 employees
took data from over 20,000 employees
took data from over 20,000 employees around the world and we found the answer
around the world and we found the answer
around the world and we found the answer was simple
was simple
was simple respect being treated with respect was
respect being treated with respect was
respect being treated with respect was more important than recognition and
more important than recognition and
more important than recognition and appreciation useful feedback even
appreciation useful feedback even
appreciation useful feedback even opportunities for learning those that
opportunities for learning those that
opportunities for learning those that felt respected were healthier more
felt respected were healthier more
felt respected were healthier more focused more likely to stay with their
focused more likely to stay with their
focused more likely to stay with their organization and far more engaged so
organization and far more engaged so
organization and far more engaged so where do you start
where do you start
where do you start how can you lift people up and make
how can you lift people up and make
how can you lift people up and make people feel respected well the nice
people feel respected well the nice
people feel respected well the nice thing is it doesn’t require a huge shift
thing is it doesn’t require a huge shift
thing is it doesn’t require a huge shift small things can make a big difference
small things can make a big difference
small things can make a big difference I found that thanking people sharing
I found that thanking people sharing
I found that thanking people sharing credit listening attentively humbly
credit listening attentively humbly
credit listening attentively humbly asking questions acknowledging others
asking questions acknowledging others
asking questions acknowledging others and smiling has an impact
and smiling has an impact
and smiling has an impact Patrick Quinlan former CEO of Aashna
Patrick Quinlan former CEO of Aashna
Patrick Quinlan former CEO of Aashna Healthcare told me about the effects of
Healthcare told me about the effects of
Healthcare told me about the effects of their 10:5 way where if you’re within 10
their 10:5 way where if you’re within 10
their 10:5 way where if you’re within 10 feet of someone you make eye contact and
feet of someone you make eye contact and
feet of someone you make eye contact and smile and if you’re within 5 feet you
smile and if you’re within 5 feet you
smile and if you’re within 5 feet you say hello he explained that civility
say hello he explained that civility
say hello he explained that civility spread patient satisfaction scores rose
spread patient satisfaction scores rose
spread patient satisfaction scores rose as did patient referrals civility and
as did patient referrals civility and
as did patient referrals civility and respect can be used to boost an
respect can be used to boost an
respect can be used to boost an organization’s performance when my
organization’s performance when my
organization’s performance when my friend Doug Conant took over a CEO of
friend Doug Conant took over a CEO of
friend Doug Conant took over a CEO of Campbell Soup Company in 2001 the
Campbell Soup Company in 2001 the
Campbell Soup Company in 2001 the company’s market share had just dropped
company’s market share had just dropped
company’s market share had just dropped in half sales were declining lots of
in half sales were declining lots of
in half sales were declining lots of people had just been laid off a Gallup
people had just been laid off a Gallup
people had just been laid off a Gallup manager said it was the least engaged
manager said it was the least engaged
manager said it was the least engaged organization that they had surveyed and
organization that they had surveyed and
organization that they had surveyed and as Doug drove up to work his first day
as Doug drove up to work his first day
as Doug drove up to work his first day he noticed that the headquarters was
he noticed that the headquarters was
he noticed that the headquarters was surrounded by barbed wire fence there
surrounded by barbed wire fence there
surrounded by barbed wire fence there were guard towers in the parking lot he
were guard towers in the parking lot he
were guard towers in the parking lot he said it looked like a minimum security
said it looked like a minimum security
said it looked like a minimum security prison it felt toxic within five years
prison it felt toxic within five years
prison it felt toxic within five years Doug had turned things around and within
Doug had turned things around and within
Doug had turned things around and within nine years they were setting all-time
nine years they were setting all-time
nine years they were setting all-time performance records and racking up
performance records and racking up
performance records and racking up awards including best place to work how
awards including best place to work how
awards including best place to work how did he do it on day one Doug told
did he do it on day one Doug told
did he do it on day one Doug told employees that he was going to have high
employees that he was going to have high
employees that he was going to have high standards for performance
standards for performance
standards for performance but they were gonna do it with civility
but they were gonna do it with civility
but they were gonna do it with civility he walked the talk and he expected as
he walked the talk and he expected as
he walked the talk and he expected as leaders to for Doug it all came down to
leaders to for Doug it all came down to
leaders to for Doug it all came down to being tough minded on standards and
being tough minded on standards and
being tough minded on standards and tender-hearted with people and for him
tender-hearted with people and for him
tender-hearted with people and for him he said it was all about these touch
he said it was all about these touch
he said it was all about these touch points or these daily interactions he
points or these daily interactions he
points or these daily interactions he had with employees whether in the
had with employees whether in the
had with employees whether in the hallway in the cafeteria or in meetings
hallway in the cafeteria or in meetings
hallway in the cafeteria or in meetings and if he handled each touch point well
and if he handled each touch point well
and if he handled each touch point well he’d make employees feel valued another
he’d make employees feel valued another
he’d make employees feel valued another way that Doug made employees feel valued
way that Doug made employees feel valued
way that Doug made employees feel valued and showed them that he was paying
and showed them that he was paying
and showed them that he was paying attention is that he hand wrote over
attention is that he hand wrote over
attention is that he hand wrote over 30,000 thank-you notes two employees and
30,000 thank-you notes two employees and
30,000 thank-you notes two employees and this set an example for other leaders
this set an example for other leaders
this set an example for other leaders leaders have about 400 of these touch
leaders have about 400 of these touch
leaders have about 400 of these touch points a day most don’t take long less
points a day most don’t take long less
points a day most don’t take long less than two minutes each the key is to be
than two minutes each the key is to be
than two minutes each the key is to be agile and mindful in each of these
agile and mindful in each of these
agile and mindful in each of these moments civility lifts people will get
moments civility lifts people will get
moments civility lifts people will get people to give more and function at
people to give more and function at
people to give more and function at their best if we’re civil incivility
their best if we’re civil incivility
their best if we’re civil incivility chips away at people and their
chips away at people and their
chips away at people and their performance it robs people of their
performance it robs people of their
performance it robs people of their potential even if they’re just working
potential even if they’re just working
potential even if they’re just working around it what I know from my research
around it what I know from my research
around it what I know from my research is that when we have more civil
is that when we have more civil
is that when we have more civil environments were more productive
environments were more productive
environments were more productive creative helpful happy and healthy we
creative helpful happy and healthy we
creative helpful happy and healthy we can do better each one of us can be more
can do better each one of us can be more
can do better each one of us can be more mindful and can take actions to lift
mindful and can take actions to lift
mindful and can take actions to lift others up around us at work at home
others up around us at work at home
others up around us at work at home online in schools and in our communities
online in schools and in our communities
online in schools and in our communities in every interaction think who do you
in every interaction think who do you
in every interaction think who do you want to be let’s put an end to the
want to be let’s put an end to the
want to be let’s put an end to the incivility bug and start spreading
incivility bug and start spreading
incivility bug and start spreading civility after all it pays thank you
”
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