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Wild Fermentation and the Power of Bacteria | Sandor Katz | TEDxSaoPauloSalon


over the last couple of years if you

over the last couple of years if you have seen any of the lists of the big

have seen any of the lists of the big

have seen any of the lists of the big new food trends you might have seen that

new food trends you might have seen that

new food trends you might have seen that fermented foods have been recognized as

fermented foods have been recognized as

fermented foods have been recognized as a new food trend which actually is quite

a new food trend which actually is quite

a new food trend which actually is quite absurd because for longer than any of us

absurd because for longer than any of us

absurd because for longer than any of us have been alive almost everybody in

have been alive almost everybody in

have been alive almost everybody in almost every part of the world eats and

almost every part of the world eats and

almost every part of the world eats and drinks products of fermentation every

drinks products of fermentation every

drinks products of fermentation every single day the the products of

single day the the products of

single day the the products of fermentation have enjoyed enduring

fermentation have enjoyed enduring

fermentation have enjoyed enduring popularity and have never gone out of

popularity and have never gone out of

popularity and have never gone out of fashion yeah we could talk about coffee

fashion yeah we could talk about coffee

fashion yeah we could talk about coffee we could talk about bread we could talk

we could talk about bread we could talk

we could talk about bread we could talk about cheese we could talk about deer we

about cheese we could talk about deer we

about cheese we could talk about deer we could talk about wine you know many of

could talk about wine you know many of

could talk about wine you know many of the greatest delicacies that people

the greatest delicacies that people

the greatest delicacies that people around the world enjoy or products of

around the world enjoy or products of

around the world enjoy or products of fermentation that have never gone out of

fermentation that have never gone out of

fermentation that have never gone out of style and have not recently just come

style and have not recently just come

style and have not recently just come into style what has changed is that

into style what has changed is that

into style what has changed is that there is a growing awareness of the

there is a growing awareness of the

there is a growing awareness of the phenomenon of fermentation and a growing

phenomenon of fermentation and a growing

phenomenon of fermentation and a growing interest in it fermentation is practiced

interest in it fermentation is practiced

interest in it fermentation is practiced everywhere I certainly do not possess

everywhere I certainly do not possess

everywhere I certainly do not possess encyclopedic knowledge but I have been

encyclopedic knowledge but I have been

encyclopedic knowledge but I have been looking for counter examples for many

looking for counter examples for many

looking for counter examples for many years now and I cannot find one single

years now and I cannot find one single

years now and I cannot find one single example of a culinary tradition anywhere

example of a culinary tradition anywhere

example of a culinary tradition anywhere that does not incorporate fermentation

that does not incorporate fermentation

that does not incorporate fermentation anything can be fermented you know

anything can be fermented you know

anything can be fermented you know nothing we could possibly eat cannot be

nothing we could possibly eat cannot be

nothing we could possibly eat cannot be fermented this is a versatile process

fermented this is a versatile process

fermented this is a versatile process that can be applied to any kind of food

that can be applied to any kind of food

that can be applied to any kind of food we could possibly digest

we could possibly digest

we could possibly digest and people have been fermenting for

and people have been fermenting for

and people have been fermenting for literally thousands of years there’s

literally thousands of years there’s

literally thousands of years there’s really nothing new about this phenomenon

really nothing new about this phenomenon

really nothing new about this phenomenon the archaeological record tells us that

the archaeological record tells us that

the archaeological record tells us that we can find evidence of fermentation

we can find evidence of fermentation

we can find evidence of fermentation going back at least 10,000 years and

going back at least 10,000 years and

going back at least 10,000 years and these are on ancient pottery shards with

these are on ancient pottery shards with

these are on ancient pottery shards with residue of alcoholic beverages but you

residue of alcoholic beverages but you

residue of alcoholic beverages but you know that really only tells us about the

know that really only tells us about the

know that really only tells us about the history of pottery and the earlier

history of pottery and the earlier

history of pottery and the earlier vessels people use for fermentation were

vessels people use for fermentation were

vessels people use for fermentation were wood and gourds and other materials that

wood and gourds and other materials that

wood and gourds and other materials that are biodegradable so you know they they

are biodegradable so you know they they

are biodegradable so you know they they just have not persisted through time but

just have not persisted through time but

just have not persisted through time but but fermentation is an ancient practice

but fermentation is an ancient practice

but fermentation is an ancient practice that people everywhere have a practice

that people everywhere have a practice

that people everywhere have a practice and I think that you know recognizing

and I think that you know recognizing

and I think that you know recognizing how old this practice is we can

how old this practice is we can

how old this practice is we can recognize that you don’t need to know

recognize that you don’t need to know

recognize that you don’t need to know about biology or microorganisms in order

about biology or microorganisms in order

about biology or microorganisms in order to practice fermentation and in fact the

to practice fermentation and in fact the

to practice fermentation and in fact the practice of fermentation has been

practice of fermentation has been

practice of fermentation has been recognized as you know kind of

recognized as you know kind of

recognized as you know kind of mysterious and mystical all around the

mysterious and mystical all around the

mysterious and mystical all around the world because you know there was no you

world because you know there was no you

world because you know there was no you know known understanding of the

know known understanding of the

know known understanding of the mechanisms of it during the age of

mechanisms of it during the age of

mechanisms of it during the age of microbiology because most of the

microbiology because most of the

microbiology because most of the information that we’ve heard about

information that we’ve heard about

information that we’ve heard about bacteria and microorganisms leads us to

bacteria and microorganisms leads us to

bacteria and microorganisms leads us to be afraid of them you know it’s about

be afraid of them you know it’s about

be afraid of them you know it’s about the the danger of disease you know we’ve

the the danger of disease you know we’ve

the the danger of disease you know we’ve developed a widespread cultural fear of

developed a widespread cultural fear of

developed a widespread cultural fear of bacteria and along with that a fear of

bacteria and along with that a fear of

bacteria and along with that a fear of fermentation and so you know the work

fermentation and so you know the work

fermentation and so you know the work that I’ve been engaged in is public

that I’ve been engaged in is public

that I’ve been engaged in is public education about fermentation

education about fermentation

education about fermentation demystifying this process for people and

demystifying this process for people and

demystifying this process for people and helping them understand you know how

helping them understand you know how

helping them understand you know how simple this process is and what an

simple this process is and what an

simple this process is and what an effective strategy for food safety it is

effective strategy for food safety it is

effective strategy for food safety it is microbiology certainly has illuminated

microbiology certainly has illuminated

microbiology certainly has illuminated the process of fir

the process of fir

the process of fir so beginning with the work of Louis

so beginning with the work of Louis

so beginning with the work of Louis Pasteur about a hundred and fifty years

Pasteur about a hundred and fifty years

Pasteur about a hundred and fifty years ago you know he began to recognize the

ago you know he began to recognize the

ago you know he began to recognize the existence of bacteria and yeasts and

existence of bacteria and yeasts and

existence of bacteria and yeasts and other microorganisms you know and

other microorganisms you know and

other microorganisms you know and observe their their activities and for

observe their their activities and for

observe their their activities and for the first time from the scientific

the first time from the scientific

the first time from the scientific analysis we began to understand that

analysis we began to understand that

analysis we began to understand that fermentation is the transformative

fermentation is the transformative

fermentation is the transformative action of microorganisms and one of the

action of microorganisms and one of the

action of microorganisms and one of the things that microbiology illuminated

things that microbiology illuminated

things that microbiology illuminated about this ancient practice is that

about this ancient practice is that

about this ancient practice is that everything we eat all of the plants and

everything we eat all of the plants and

everything we eat all of the plants and all of the animal products that make up

all of the animal products that make up

all of the animal products that make up our food are populated by elaborate

our food are populated by elaborate

our food are populated by elaborate communities of microorganisms everything

communities of microorganisms everything

communities of microorganisms everything we eat has many different kinds of

we eat has many different kinds of

we eat has many different kinds of microorganisms that are part of them and

microorganisms that are part of them and

microorganisms that are part of them and microbiology also illuminated the fact

microbiology also illuminated the fact

microbiology also illuminated the fact that our bodies are the host to a vast

that our bodies are the host to a vast

that our bodies are the host to a vast populations of microorganisms you know

populations of microorganisms you know

populations of microorganisms you know every human adult is the host to

every human adult is the host to

every human adult is the host to somewhere around one trillion

somewhere around one trillion

somewhere around one trillion microorganisms these bacteria and other

microorganisms these bacteria and other

microorganisms these bacteria and other organisms outnumber our bodily cells by

organisms outnumber our bodily cells by

organisms outnumber our bodily cells by something like ten to one so in a way we

something like ten to one so in a way we

something like ten to one so in a way we are bacterial super structures and we

are bacterial super structures and we

are bacterial super structures and we are not alone in this regard you know

are not alone in this regard you know

are not alone in this regard you know every every vegetable every grain every

every every vegetable every grain every

every every vegetable every grain every animal you know all of the things that

animal you know all of the things that

animal you know all of the things that make up our food are populated by

make up our food are populated by

make up our food are populated by similarly elaborate communities of

similarly elaborate communities of

similarly elaborate communities of microorganisms the perspective of

microorganisms the perspective of

microorganisms the perspective of evolutionary biologists is that all life

evolutionary biologists is that all life

evolutionary biologists is that all life is descended from bacteria and the other

is descended from bacteria and the other

is descended from bacteria and the other side of this reality is that no

side of this reality is that no

side of this reality is that no multicellular form of life has ever

multicellular form of life has ever

multicellular form of life has ever lived without bacteria and we all are

lived without bacteria and we all are

lived without bacteria and we all are dependent on bacteria for

dependent on bacteria for

dependent on bacteria for aspects of our existence and and and our

aspects of our existence and and and our

aspects of our existence and and and our functionality and what fermentation is

functionality and what fermentation is

functionality and what fermentation is is the transformative action of these

is the transformative action of these

is the transformative action of these microorganisms now not every

microorganisms now not every

microorganisms now not every transformative action of microorganisms

transformative action of microorganisms

transformative action of microorganisms results in something delicious that

results in something delicious that

results in something delicious that people want to put into our mouths and

people want to put into our mouths and

people want to put into our mouths and you know in fact most of us are familiar

you know in fact most of us are familiar

you know in fact most of us are familiar with the transformative action of

with the transformative action of

with the transformative action of microorganisms from let’s say cleaning

microorganisms from let’s say cleaning

microorganisms from let’s say cleaning out our refrigerators and the you know

out our refrigerators and the you know

out our refrigerators and the you know decomposing food that we inevitably find

decomposing food that we inevitably find

decomposing food that we inevitably find stuck in the back of the refrigerators

stuck in the back of the refrigerators

stuck in the back of the refrigerators and we oh we don’t call this kind of

and we oh we don’t call this kind of

and we oh we don’t call this kind of food fermented we have a different

food fermented we have a different

food fermented we have a different vocabulary to talk about that we call it

vocabulary to talk about that we call it

vocabulary to talk about that we call it rotten food or spoiled food and we

rotten food or spoiled food and we

rotten food or spoiled food and we reserve this word fermentation to

reserve this word fermentation to

reserve this word fermentation to describe intentional microbial

describe intentional microbial

describe intentional microbial transformations or at least desirable

transformations or at least desirable

transformations or at least desirable microbial transformations but I think

microbial transformations but I think

microbial transformations but I think that the fact that we all inevitably

that the fact that we all inevitably

that the fact that we all inevitably encounter unappealing decomposing food

encounter unappealing decomposing food

encounter unappealing decomposing food in the back of the refrigerator gives us

in the back of the refrigerator gives us

in the back of the refrigerator gives us some insight into the inevitability of

some insight into the inevitability of

some insight into the inevitability of microbial transformation of our food as

microbial transformation of our food as

microbial transformation of our food as I mentioned earlier everything we eat is

I mentioned earlier everything we eat is

I mentioned earlier everything we eat is populated by many different kinds of

populated by many different kinds of

populated by many different kinds of microorganisms so really the you know

microorganisms so really the you know

microorganisms so really the you know the primary objective of fermentation is

the primary objective of fermentation is

the primary objective of fermentation is to guide that microbial development so

to guide that microbial development so

to guide that microbial development so that we encourage the growth of certain

that we encourage the growth of certain

that we encourage the growth of certain kinds of organisms and at the same time

kinds of organisms and at the same time

kinds of organisms and at the same time we discourage the growth of other kinds

we discourage the growth of other kinds

we discourage the growth of other kinds of organisms and we do this by

of organisms and we do this by

of organisms and we do this by manipulating environmental conditions so

manipulating environmental conditions so

manipulating environmental conditions so the practice of fermentation really

the practice of fermentation really

the practice of fermentation really amounts to manipulations of

amounts to manipulations of

amounts to manipulations of environmental conditions in order to

environmental conditions in order to

environmental conditions in order to encourage the growth of certain

encourage the growth of certain

encourage the growth of certain organisms and simultaneously discourage

organisms and simultaneously discourage

organisms and simultaneously discourage the growth of other kinds of organisms

the growth of other kinds of organisms

the growth of other kinds of organisms there’s always a practical benefit to

there’s always a practical benefit to

there’s always a practical benefit to fermentation the food is not decomposing

fermentation the food is not decomposing

fermentation the food is not decomposing and we are creating alcohol we’re making

and we are creating alcohol we’re making

and we are creating alcohol we’re making food that is more stable than the raw

food that is more stable than the raw

food that is more stable than the raw product

product

product agriculture that we began with we’re

agriculture that we began with we’re

agriculture that we began with we’re creating something that is more

creating something that is more

creating something that is more delicious we’re creating something

delicious we’re creating something

delicious we’re creating something that’s more easily digestible we’re

that’s more easily digestible we’re

that’s more easily digestible we’re creating something where some toxic

creating something where some toxic

creating something where some toxic compound in the food is broken down and

compound in the food is broken down and

compound in the food is broken down and the otherwise dangerous food is made

the otherwise dangerous food is made

the otherwise dangerous food is made safe and the other you know great

safe and the other you know great

safe and the other you know great practical benefit that’s being revealed

practical benefit that’s being revealed

practical benefit that’s being revealed to us really for the first time in our

to us really for the first time in our

to us really for the first time in our lifetimes is the the benefit of eating

lifetimes is the the benefit of eating

lifetimes is the the benefit of eating the bacteria themselves you know because

the bacteria themselves you know because

the bacteria themselves you know because all of us have lived our lives in the

all of us have lived our lives in the

all of us have lived our lives in the midst of the war on bacteria which

midst of the war on bacteria which

midst of the war on bacteria which includes antibiotic drugs and

includes antibiotic drugs and

includes antibiotic drugs and antibacterial cleansing products and

antibacterial cleansing products and

antibacterial cleansing products and chlorinated water these are all chemical

chlorinated water these are all chemical

chlorinated water these are all chemical compounds designed to kill bacteria and

compounds designed to kill bacteria and

compounds designed to kill bacteria and when we when we have contact with these

when we when we have contact with these

when we when we have contact with these compounds which we all inevitably do it

compounds which we all inevitably do it

compounds which we all inevitably do it has the effect of narrowing the

has the effect of narrowing the

has the effect of narrowing the diversity of bacteria in our intestines

diversity of bacteria in our intestines

diversity of bacteria in our intestines if they were to kill all those

if they were to kill all those

if they were to kill all those microorganisms we couldn’t possibly

microorganisms we couldn’t possibly

microorganisms we couldn’t possibly exist because we rely on these

exist because we rely on these

exist because we rely on these microorganisms for our digestion we rely

microorganisms for our digestion we rely

microorganisms for our digestion we rely on these microorganisms that are part of

on these microorganisms that are part of

on these microorganisms that are part of our body for what we call our immune

our body for what we call our immune

our body for what we call our immune systems our ability to withstand disease

systems our ability to withstand disease

systems our ability to withstand disease and new research in the last few years

and new research in the last few years

and new research in the last few years is revealing that our brain chemistry

is revealing that our brain chemistry

is revealing that our brain chemistry serotonin and other chemical compounds

serotonin and other chemical compounds

serotonin and other chemical compounds that determine how we think and how we

that determine how we think and how we

that determine how we think and how we feel are regulated by bacteria and our

feel are regulated by bacteria and our

feel are regulated by bacteria and our intestines and yet this chemical

intestines and yet this chemical

intestines and yet this chemical exposure that we all inevitably have

exposure that we all inevitably have

exposure that we all inevitably have narrows biodiversity inside of us

narrows biodiversity inside of us

narrows biodiversity inside of us typically people think about

typically people think about

typically people think about biodiversity as you know a phenomenon

biodiversity as you know a phenomenon

biodiversity as you know a phenomenon that affects the forests and the oceans

that affects the forests and the oceans

that affects the forests and the oceans and and certainly that is important but

and and certainly that is important but

and and certainly that is important but we have to recognize that biodiversity

we have to recognize that biodiversity

we have to recognize that biodiversity also exists within us and our health and

also exists within us and our health and

also exists within us and our health and our well-being are related to the health

our well-being are related to the health

our well-being are related to the health and diversity of bacterial populations

and diversity of bacterial populations

and diversity of bacterial populations in our intestines and one of the

in our intestines and one of the

in our intestines and one of the greatest benefits that we can get

greatest benefits that we can get

greatest benefits that we can get eating fermented foods and drinking

eating fermented foods and drinking

eating fermented foods and drinking fermented beverages is the bacteria

fermented beverages is the bacteria

fermented beverages is the bacteria themselves now of course not all

themselves now of course not all

themselves now of course not all fermented foods or beverages have live

fermented foods or beverages have live

fermented foods or beverages have live bacteria if they’re cooked or heat

bacteria if they’re cooked or heat

bacteria if they’re cooked or heat processed the bacteria perished or due

processed the bacteria perished or due

processed the bacteria perished or due to heat but but with growing recognition

to heat but but with growing recognition

to heat but but with growing recognition of this many people are seeking out

of this many people are seeking out

of this many people are seeking out living fermented foods fermented foods

living fermented foods fermented foods

living fermented foods fermented foods that have not been cooked or heat

that have not been cooked or heat

that have not been cooked or heat processed precisely in order to ingest

processed precisely in order to ingest

processed precisely in order to ingest bacteria generally we we’re ingesting

bacteria generally we we’re ingesting

bacteria generally we we’re ingesting elaborate communities of bacteria and

elaborate communities of bacteria and

elaborate communities of bacteria and this is what is commonly called

this is what is commonly called

this is what is commonly called probiotics is so it’s really a strategy

probiotics is so it’s really a strategy

probiotics is so it’s really a strategy for helping to restore biodiversity in

for helping to restore biodiversity in

for helping to restore biodiversity in our intestines fermentation is also used

our intestines fermentation is also used

our intestines fermentation is also used in a metaphorical sense and I just want

in a metaphorical sense and I just want

in a metaphorical sense and I just want to talk for a moment about the word

to talk for a moment about the word

to talk for a moment about the word fermentation fermentation comes from the

fermentation fermentation comes from the

fermentation fermentation comes from the Latin ther very which means to boil and

Latin ther very which means to boil and

Latin ther very which means to boil and it’s because the visible action of

it’s because the visible action of

it’s because the visible action of fermentation is bubbles bubbles of

fermentation is bubbles bubbles of

fermentation is bubbles bubbles of carbon dioxide that will rise in your

carbon dioxide that will rise in your

carbon dioxide that will rise in your fermenting beer or your fermenting wine

fermenting beer or your fermenting wine

fermenting beer or your fermenting wine the bubbles remind people of the bubbles

the bubbles remind people of the bubbles

the bubbles remind people of the bubbles that rise in boiling liquids so

that rise in boiling liquids so

that rise in boiling liquids so fermentation has always been viewed as a

fermentation has always been viewed as a

fermentation has always been viewed as a form of a cold boiling or cold cold

form of a cold boiling or cold cold

form of a cold boiling or cold cold cooking you know transforming food and

cooking you know transforming food and

cooking you know transforming food and producing these bubbles without using

producing these bubbles without using

producing these bubbles without using heat but when people talk about

heat but when people talk about

heat but when people talk about fermentation in a metaphorical sense

fermentation in a metaphorical sense

fermentation in a metaphorical sense when they’re talking about the

when they’re talking about the

when they’re talking about the fermentation of culture or political

fermentation of culture or political

fermentation of culture or political fermentation or intellectual

fermentation or intellectual

fermentation or intellectual fermentation or spiritual fermentation

fermentation or spiritual fermentation

fermentation or spiritual fermentation they’re also talking about bubbles

they’re also talking about bubbles

they’re also talking about bubbles except that instead of literal bubbles

except that instead of literal bubbles

except that instead of literal bubbles of carbon dioxide rising in liquids

of carbon dioxide rising in liquids

of carbon dioxide rising in liquids they’re talking about bubbles of

they’re talking about bubbles of

they’re talking about bubbles of excitement when people are excited about

excitement when people are excited about

excitement when people are excited about ideas and they want to share those ideas

ideas and they want to share those ideas

ideas and they want to share those ideas people get bubbly they want to talk

people get bubbly they want to talk

people get bubbly they want to talk about them they want to you know share

about them they want to you know share

about them they want to you know share the ideas that are making them excited

the ideas that are making them excited

the ideas that are making them excited with their friends and with

with their friends and with

with their friends and with families to conclude I just want to

families to conclude I just want to

families to conclude I just want to point out that in addition to being this

point out that in addition to being this

point out that in addition to being this important mode of transformation of

important mode of transformation of

important mode of transformation of foods and beverages which enables people

foods and beverages which enables people

foods and beverages which enables people to make effective use of the food

to make effective use of the food

to make effective use of the food resources that are available to them

resources that are available to them

resources that are available to them fermentation is also an engine of social

fermentation is also an engine of social

fermentation is also an engine of social change and all of us are the starter

change and all of us are the starter

change and all of us are the starter cultures thank you

cultures thank you

cultures thank you [Applause]

”

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