my journey away from violent extremism began 22 years ago when I denounced
began 22 years ago when I denounced
began 22 years ago when I denounced racism and left the American white
racism and left the American white
racism and left the American white supremacist skinhead movement that I’d
supremacist skinhead movement that I’d
supremacist skinhead movement that I’d helped build
helped build
helped build I was just 22 years old at the time but
I was just 22 years old at the time but
I was just 22 years old at the time but I had already spent eight years from the
I had already spent eight years from the
I had already spent eight years from the time I was 14 years old as one of the
time I was 14 years old as one of the
time I was 14 years old as one of the earliest and youngest members an
earliest and youngest members an
earliest and youngest members an eventual leader within America’s most
eventual leader within America’s most
eventual leader within America’s most violent hate movement but I wasn’t born
violent hate movement but I wasn’t born
violent hate movement but I wasn’t born into hate in fact it was quite the
into hate in fact it was quite the
into hate in fact it was quite the opposite I had a relatively normal
opposite I had a relatively normal
opposite I had a relatively normal childhood my parents are Italian
childhood my parents are Italian
childhood my parents are Italian immigrants who came to the United States
immigrants who came to the United States
immigrants who came to the United States in the mid 1960s and settled on the
in the mid 1960s and settled on the
in the mid 1960s and settled on the south side of Chicago where they
south side of Chicago where they
south side of Chicago where they eventually met and opened a small beauty
eventually met and opened a small beauty
eventually met and opened a small beauty shop right after I was born things got a
shop right after I was born things got a
shop right after I was born things got a little bit more difficult they struggled
little bit more difficult they struggled
little bit more difficult they struggled to survive with raising a young family
to survive with raising a young family
to survive with raising a young family and a new business often working seven
and a new business often working seven
and a new business often working seven days a week 14 hours a day taking on
days a week 14 hours a day taking on
days a week 14 hours a day taking on second and third jobs just to earn a
second and third jobs just to earn a
second and third jobs just to earn a meager living and quality time with my
meager living and quality time with my
meager living and quality time with my parents was pretty non-existent even
parents was pretty non-existent even
parents was pretty non-existent even though I knew they loved me very much
though I knew they loved me very much
though I knew they loved me very much growing up I felt abandoned I was lonely
growing up I felt abandoned I was lonely
growing up I felt abandoned I was lonely and I started to withdraw and then I
and I started to withdraw and then I
and I started to withdraw and then I started to resent my parents and become
started to resent my parents and become
started to resent my parents and become very angry and as I was growing up
very angry and as I was growing up
very angry and as I was growing up through my teenage years I started to
through my teenage years I started to
through my teenage years I started to act out to try and get attention from my
act out to try and get attention from my
act out to try and get attention from my parents and one day when I was 14 I was
parents and one day when I was 14 I was
parents and one day when I was 14 I was standing in an alley and I was smoking a
standing in an alley and I was smoking a
standing in an alley and I was smoking a joint and a man who was twice my age
joint and a man who was twice my age
joint and a man who was twice my age with a shaved head and tall black boots
with a shaved head and tall black boots
with a shaved head and tall black boots came up to me and he snatched a joint
came up to me and he snatched a joint
came up to me and he snatched a joint from my lips
from my lips
from my lips then he put his hand on my shoulder and
then he put his hand on my shoulder and
then he put his hand on my shoulder and he looked me in the eyes
he looked me in the eyes
he looked me in the eyes and he said that’s what the Communists
and he said that’s what the Communists
and he said that’s what the Communists and the Jews want you to do to keep you
and the Jews want you to do to keep you
and the Jews want you to do to keep you docile I was 14 years old I’d been
docile I was 14 years old I’d been
docile I was 14 years old I’d been trading baseball cards and watching
trading baseball cards and watching
trading baseball cards and watching happy days I didn’t really know what a
happy days I didn’t really know what a
happy days I didn’t really know what a Jew was it’s true and the only communist
Jew was it’s true and the only communist
Jew was it’s true and the only communist that I knew was the you know bad Russian
that I knew was the you know bad Russian
that I knew was the you know bad Russian guy in my favorite Rocky movie and since
guy in my favorite Rocky movie and since
guy in my favorite Rocky movie and since I’m here baring my soul with you I can
I’m here baring my soul with you I can
I’m here baring my soul with you I can reveal that I did not even know what the
reveal that I did not even know what the
reveal that I did not even know what the word docile meant dead serious but it
word docile meant dead serious but it
word docile meant dead serious but it was as if this man in this alley had
was as if this man in this alley had
was as if this man in this alley had offered me a lifeline for 14 years I’d
offered me a lifeline for 14 years I’d
offered me a lifeline for 14 years I’d felt marginalized and bullied I had low
felt marginalized and bullied I had low
felt marginalized and bullied I had low self-esteem and frankly I didn’t know
self-esteem and frankly I didn’t know
self-esteem and frankly I didn’t know who I was where I belonged or what my
who I was where I belonged or what my
who I was where I belonged or what my purpose was I was lost and overnight
purpose was I was lost and overnight
purpose was I was lost and overnight because this man had pulled me in and I
because this man had pulled me in and I
because this man had pulled me in and I had grabbed on to that lifeline with
had grabbed on to that lifeline with
had grabbed on to that lifeline with every fiber of my being I’ve gone from
every fiber of my being I’ve gone from
every fiber of my being I’ve gone from Joanie Loves Chachi to full-blown Nazi
Joanie Loves Chachi to full-blown Nazi
Joanie Loves Chachi to full-blown Nazi overnight I started to listen to the
overnight I started to listen to the
overnight I started to listen to the rhetoric and believe it I started to
rhetoric and believe it I started to
rhetoric and believe it I started to watch very closely as the leaders of
watch very closely as the leaders of
watch very closely as the leaders of this organization would target
this organization would target
this organization would target vulnerable young people who felt
vulnerable young people who felt
vulnerable young people who felt marginalized and then draw them in with
marginalized and then draw them in with
marginalized and then draw them in with promises of paradise that were broken
promises of paradise that were broken
promises of paradise that were broken and then I started to recruit myself I
and then I started to recruit myself I
and then I started to recruit myself I started to do that by making white power
started to do that by making white power
started to do that by making white power music and soon I became the leader of
music and soon I became the leader of
music and soon I became the leader of that infamous organization that was led
that infamous organization that was led
that infamous organization that was led by that man in that alley who recruited
by that man in that alley who recruited
by that man in that alley who recruited me that day who was America’s first
me that day who was America’s first
me that day who was America’s first neo-nazi skinhead and who had
neo-nazi skinhead and who had
neo-nazi skinhead and who had radicalized me for the next eight years
radicalized me for the next eight years
radicalized me for the next eight years I believed the lies that I had been fed
I believed the lies that I had been fed
I believed the lies that I had been fed and though I saw no evidence of it
and though I saw no evidence of it
and though I saw no evidence of it whatsoever I didn’t hesitate to blame
whatsoever I didn’t hesitate to blame
whatsoever I didn’t hesitate to blame every Jew
every Jew
every Jew person in the world for what I thought
person in the world for what I thought
person in the world for what I thought was a white European genocide being
was a white European genocide being
was a white European genocide being promoted by them through a
promoted by them through a
promoted by them through a multiculturalist agenda I blamed people
multiculturalist agenda I blamed people
multiculturalist agenda I blamed people of color for the crime the violence and
of color for the crime the violence and
of color for the crime the violence and the drugs in the city completely
the drugs in the city completely
the drugs in the city completely neglecting the fact that I was
neglecting the fact that I was
neglecting the fact that I was committing acts of violence on a daily
committing acts of violence on a daily
committing acts of violence on a daily basis and that in many cases it was
basis and that in many cases it was
basis and that in many cases it was white supremacists who were funneling
white supremacists who were funneling
white supremacists who were funneling drugs into the inner cities and I blamed
drugs into the inner cities and I blamed
drugs into the inner cities and I blamed immigrants for taking jobs from white
immigrants for taking jobs from white
immigrants for taking jobs from white Americans completely neglecting the fact
Americans completely neglecting the fact
Americans completely neglecting the fact that my parents were hardworking
that my parents were hardworking
that my parents were hardworking immigrants who struggled to survive
immigrants who struggled to survive
immigrants who struggled to survive despite not getting help from anybody
despite not getting help from anybody
despite not getting help from anybody else for the next eight years
else for the next eight years
else for the next eight years I saw friends die I saw others go to
I saw friends die I saw others go to
I saw friends die I saw others go to prison and inflict untold pain on
prison and inflict untold pain on
prison and inflict untold pain on countless victims and her family’s lives
countless victims and her family’s lives
countless victims and her family’s lives I heard horrific stories from young
I heard horrific stories from young
I heard horrific stories from young women in the movement who’d been
women in the movement who’d been
women in the movement who’d been brutally raped by the very men that they
brutally raped by the very men that they
brutally raped by the very men that they were conditioned to trust and I myself
were conditioned to trust and I myself
were conditioned to trust and I myself committed acts of violence against
committed acts of violence against
committed acts of violence against people solely for the color of their
people solely for the color of their
people solely for the color of their skin who they loved or the God that they
skin who they loved or the God that they
skin who they loved or the God that they prayed to I stockpiled weapons for what
prayed to I stockpiled weapons for what
prayed to I stockpiled weapons for what I thought was an upcoming race war and
I thought was an upcoming race war and
I thought was an upcoming race war and 25 years ago I wrote and performed
25 years ago I wrote and performed
25 years ago I wrote and performed racist music that found its way to the
racist music that found its way to the
racist music that found its way to the Internet decades later and partially
Internet decades later and partially
Internet decades later and partially inspired a young white nationalist to
inspired a young white nationalist to
inspired a young white nationalist to walk into a sacred Charleston South
walk into a sacred Charleston South
walk into a sacred Charleston South Carolina church and senselessly Massacre
Carolina church and senselessly Massacre
Carolina church and senselessly Massacre nine innocent people
but then my life changed at 19 years old
but then my life changed at 19 years old I met a girl who was not in the movement
I met a girl who was not in the movement
I met a girl who was not in the movement who didn’t have a racist bone in her
who didn’t have a racist bone in her
who didn’t have a racist bone in her body and I fell in love with her and at
body and I fell in love with her and at
body and I fell in love with her and at 19 we got married and we had our first
19 we got married and we had our first
19 we got married and we had our first son and when I held my son in my arms in
son and when I held my son in my arms in
son and when I held my son in my arms in the delivery room that day not only did
the delivery room that day not only did
the delivery room that day not only did I reconnect with some of the innocents
I reconnect with some of the innocents
I reconnect with some of the innocents that I had lost at 14 years old but it
that I had lost at 14 years old but it
that I had lost at 14 years old but it also began to challenge the very
also began to challenge the very
also began to challenge the very important things that drew me to the
important things that drew me to the
important things that drew me to the movement to begin with identity
movement to begin with identity
movement to begin with identity community and purpose things that I had
community and purpose things that I had
community and purpose things that I had been struggling with as a young boy and
been struggling with as a young boy and
been struggling with as a young boy and now I struggled with the concept of who
now I struggled with the concept of who
now I struggled with the concept of who I was again was I this neo-nazi hate
I was again was I this neo-nazi hate
I was again was I this neo-nazi hate monger or was I a caring father and
monger or was I a caring father and
monger or was I a caring father and husband was my community the one that I
husband was my community the one that I
husband was my community the one that I had manufactured around me to boost my
had manufactured around me to boost my
had manufactured around me to boost my own ego because I felt self hatred for
own ego because I felt self hatred for
own ego because I felt self hatred for myself and I wanted to project it onto
myself and I wanted to project it onto
myself and I wanted to project it onto others or was it the one that I had
others or was it the one that I had
others or was it the one that I had physically given life to was my purpose
physically given life to was my purpose
physically given life to was my purpose to scorch the earth or was it to make it
to scorch the earth or was it to make it
to scorch the earth or was it to make it a better place for my family and
a better place for my family and
a better place for my family and suddenly like a ton of bricks hit me I
suddenly like a ton of bricks hit me I
suddenly like a ton of bricks hit me I became very confused with who I’d been
became very confused with who I’d been
became very confused with who I’d been for the last eight years and if only I’d
for the last eight years and if only I’d
for the last eight years and if only I’d been brave enough to walk away at that
been brave enough to walk away at that
been brave enough to walk away at that moment to understand what the struggle
moment to understand what the struggle
moment to understand what the struggle was that was happening inside of me then
was that was happening inside of me then
was that was happening inside of me then maybe tragedy could have been averted
maybe tragedy could have been averted
maybe tragedy could have been averted instead I did compromise I took myself
instead I did compromise I took myself
instead I did compromise I took myself off the streets for the benefit of my
off the streets for the benefit of my
off the streets for the benefit of my family because I was nervous that maybe
family because I was nervous that maybe
family because I was nervous that maybe I could go to jail or end up dead and
I could go to jail or end up dead and
I could go to jail or end up dead and they would have to fend for themselves
they would have to fend for themselves
they would have to fend for themselves so I stepped back as a leader and
so I stepped back as a leader and
so I stepped back as a leader and instead I opened a record store that I
instead I opened a record store that I
instead I opened a record store that I was gonna sell white power music in of
was gonna sell white power music in of
was gonna sell white power music in of course because I was importing it in
course because I was importing it in
course because I was importing it in from Europe
from Europe
from Europe but I knew that if I was just a racist
but I knew that if I was just a racist
but I knew that if I was just a racist or selling racist music that the
or selling racist music that the
or selling racist music that the community would not allow me to be there
community would not allow me to be there
community would not allow me to be there so I decided I was gonna also stock the
so I decided I was gonna also stock the
so I decided I was gonna also stock the shelves with other music like punk rock
shelves with other music like punk rock
shelves with other music like punk rock and heavy metal in hip-hop and while the
and heavy metal in hip-hop and while the
and heavy metal in hip-hop and while the white power music that I was selling was
white power music that I was selling was
white power music that I was selling was 75% of my gross revenue because people
75% of my gross revenue because people
75% of my gross revenue because people were driving in from all over the
were driving in from all over the
were driving in from all over the country to buy it from the only store
country to buy it from the only store
country to buy it from the only store that was selling it I also had customers
that was selling it I also had customers
that was selling it I also had customers come in to buy the other music and
come in to buy the other music and
come in to buy the other music and eventually they started to talk to me
eventually they started to talk to me
eventually they started to talk to me and one day young black teen came in and
and one day young black teen came in and
and one day young black teen came in and he was visibly upset and I decided to
he was visibly upset and I decided to
he was visibly upset and I decided to ask him what was wrong and he told me
ask him what was wrong and he told me
ask him what was wrong and he told me that his mother had been diagnosed with
that his mother had been diagnosed with
that his mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer and suddenly this young
breast cancer and suddenly this young
breast cancer and suddenly this young black teenager who had never had a
black teenager who had never had a
black teenager who had never had a meaningful conversation or interaction
meaningful conversation or interaction
meaningful conversation or interaction with I was able to connect with because
with I was able to connect with because
with I was able to connect with because my own mother had been diagnosed with
my own mother had been diagnosed with
my own mother had been diagnosed with breast cancer and I could feel his pain
breast cancer and I could feel his pain
breast cancer and I could feel his pain on another occasion a gay couple came in
on another occasion a gay couple came in
on another occasion a gay couple came in with their son and it was undeniable to
with their son and it was undeniable to
with their son and it was undeniable to me that they loved their son in the same
me that they loved their son in the same
me that they loved their son in the same profound ways that I loved mine and
profound ways that I loved mine and
profound ways that I loved mine and suddenly I couldn’t rationalize or
suddenly I couldn’t rationalize or
suddenly I couldn’t rationalize or justify the prejudice that I had in my
justify the prejudice that I had in my
justify the prejudice that I had in my head I decided to pull the white power
head I decided to pull the white power
head I decided to pull the white power music from the inventory when I became
music from the inventory when I became
music from the inventory when I became too embarrassed to sell it in front of
too embarrassed to sell it in front of
too embarrassed to sell it in front of my new friends and of course the store
my new friends and of course the store
my new friends and of course the store couldn’t sustain itself so I had to
couldn’t sustain itself so I had to
couldn’t sustain itself so I had to close it at that same time I lost nearly
close it at that same time I lost nearly
close it at that same time I lost nearly everything in my life I used it as an
everything in my life I used it as an
everything in my life I used it as an opportunity to walk away from the
opportunity to walk away from the
opportunity to walk away from the movement that I had been a part of for
movement that I had been a part of for
movement that I had been a part of for eight years the only identity community
eight years the only identity community
eight years the only identity community and purpose that I’d really known for
and purpose that I’d really known for
and purpose that I’d really known for most of my life so I had nobody
most of my life so I had nobody
most of my life so I had nobody I didn’t lost my livelihood because I
I didn’t lost my livelihood because I
I didn’t lost my livelihood because I closed the store I didn’t have a great
closed the store I didn’t have a great
closed the store I didn’t have a great relationship with my parents even though
relationship with my parents even though
relationship with my parents even though they tried and my wife and children left
they tried and my wife and children left
they tried and my wife and children left me because I hadn’t
me because I hadn’t
me because I hadn’t left the movement and disengaged quickly
left the movement and disengaged quickly
left the movement and disengaged quickly enough and suddenly I didn’t know who I
enough and suddenly I didn’t know who I
enough and suddenly I didn’t know who I was again or where I fit in or what my
was again or where I fit in or what my
was again or where I fit in or what my purpose was supposed to be I was
purpose was supposed to be I was
purpose was supposed to be I was miserable inside and I often woke up in
miserable inside and I often woke up in
miserable inside and I often woke up in the morning wishing that I hadn’t about
the morning wishing that I hadn’t about
the morning wishing that I hadn’t about five years in one of the few friends
five years in one of the few friends
five years in one of the few friends that I had was concerned about my
that I had was concerned about my
that I had was concerned about my well-being and she came to me and she
well-being and she came to me and she
well-being and she came to me and she said you need to do something because I
said you need to do something because I
said you need to do something because I don’t want to see you die and she
don’t want to see you die and she
don’t want to see you die and she suggested that I go apply for a job
suggested that I go apply for a job
suggested that I go apply for a job where she worked at a company called IBM
where she worked at a company called IBM
where she worked at a company called IBM yeah I thought she was crazy too
yeah I thought she was crazy too
yeah I thought she was crazy too here I was a closeted ex-nazi covered in
here I was a closeted ex-nazi covered in
here I was a closeted ex-nazi covered in hate tattoos I didn’t go to college I’d
hate tattoos I didn’t go to college I’d
hate tattoos I didn’t go to college I’d been kicked out of multiple high schools
been kicked out of multiple high schools
been kicked out of multiple high schools multiple times
multiple times
multiple times I didn’t even own a computer but I went
I didn’t even own a computer but I went
I didn’t even own a computer but I went in and somehow miraculously I got the
in and somehow miraculously I got the
in and somehow miraculously I got the job and then I became terrified to learn
job and then I became terrified to learn
job and then I became terrified to learn that they’d actually be putting me back
that they’d actually be putting me back
that they’d actually be putting me back at my old high school the same one I got
at my old high school the same one I got
at my old high school the same one I got kicked out of twice to install their
kicked out of twice to install their
kicked out of twice to install their computers this was a high school where I
computers this was a high school where I
computers this was a high school where I had committed acts of violence against
had committed acts of violence against
had committed acts of violence against students against faculty where I’d
students against faculty where I’d
students against faculty where I’d protest it out in front of the school
protest it out in front of the school
protest it out in front of the school for equal rights for whites and even had
for equal rights for whites and even had
for equal rights for whites and even had a sit-in in the cafeteria to try and
a sit-in in the cafeteria to try and
a sit-in in the cafeteria to try and demand a white Student Union and of
demand a white Student Union and of
demand a white Student Union and of course if karma would have it within the
course if karma would have it within the
course if karma would have it within the first couple of hours who walks right by
first couple of hours who walks right by
first couple of hours who walks right by me but mr. Johnny Holmes the tough black
me but mr. Johnny Holmes the tough black
me but mr. Johnny Holmes the tough black security guard I’d gotten in a fistfight
security guard I’d gotten in a fistfight
security guard I’d gotten in a fistfight with that got me kicked out the second
with that got me kicked out the second
with that got me kicked out the second time and let out in handcuffs from the
time and let out in handcuffs from the
time and let out in handcuffs from the school he didn’t recognize me but I saw
school he didn’t recognize me but I saw
school he didn’t recognize me but I saw him and I didn’t know what to do I was
him and I didn’t know what to do I was
him and I didn’t know what to do I was frozen I was this grown man now years
frozen I was this grown man now years
frozen I was this grown man now years out of the movement and I was sweating
out of the movement and I was sweating
out of the movement and I was sweating and I was trembling but I decided I had
and I was trembling but I decided I had
and I was trembling but I decided I had to do something and I decided I didn’t
to do something and I decided I didn’t
to do something and I decided I didn’t needed to suffer under the weight of my
needed to suffer under the weight of my
needed to suffer under the weight of my past because for five years I had tried
past because for five years I had tried
past because for five years I had tried to outrun it I tried to make new friends
to outrun it I tried to make new friends
to outrun it I tried to make new friends and cover my tattoos with long sleeves
and cover my tattoos with long sleeves
and cover my tattoos with long sleeves and I wouldn’t admit it because I was
and I wouldn’t admit it because I was
and I wouldn’t admit it because I was afraid of being judged the same way that
afraid of being judged the same way that
afraid of being judged the same way that I had judged other people well I decided
I had judged other people well I decided
I had judged other people well I decided I was gonna chase mr. Holmes out to the
I was gonna chase mr. Holmes out to the
I was gonna chase mr. Holmes out to the parking lot
parking lot
parking lot probably not smartest decision that I
probably not smartest decision that I
probably not smartest decision that I made but when I found him he was getting
made but when I found him he was getting
made but when I found him he was getting into his car and I tapped him on the
into his car and I tapped him on the
into his car and I tapped him on the shoulder and when he turned around and
shoulder and when he turned around and
shoulder and when he turned around and he recognized me he took a step back
he recognized me he took a step back
he recognized me he took a step back because he was afraid and I didn’t know
because he was afraid and I didn’t know
because he was afraid and I didn’t know what to say finally the words came out
what to say finally the words came out
what to say finally the words came out of my mouth and all I could think to say
of my mouth and all I could think to say
of my mouth and all I could think to say was I’m sorry
was I’m sorry
was I’m sorry and he embraced me and he forgave me and
and he embraced me and he forgave me and
and he embraced me and he forgave me and he encouraged me to forgive myself he
he encouraged me to forgive myself he
he encouraged me to forgive myself he recognized that it wasn’t the story of
recognized that it wasn’t the story of
recognized that it wasn’t the story of some broken don’t know where kid who was
some broken don’t know where kid who was
some broken don’t know where kid who was gonna just join a gang and go to prison
gonna just join a gang and go to prison
gonna just join a gang and go to prison he knew that this was the story of every
he knew that this was the story of every
he knew that this was the story of every young person who was vulnerable who was
young person who was vulnerable who was
young person who was vulnerable who was searching for identity community and
searching for identity community and
searching for identity community and purpose and then hit a wall and was
purpose and then hit a wall and was
purpose and then hit a wall and was unable to find it and went down a dark
unable to find it and went down a dark
unable to find it and went down a dark path and he made me promise one thing
path and he made me promise one thing
path and he made me promise one thing that I would tell my story to whoever
that I would tell my story to whoever
that I would tell my story to whoever would listen that was 18 years ago and
would listen that was 18 years ago and
would listen that was 18 years ago and I’ve been doing it ever since
you might be asking yourself right now
you might be asking yourself right now how does a good kid from a you know
how does a good kid from a you know
how does a good kid from a you know hard-working immigrant family end up
hard-working immigrant family end up
hard-working immigrant family end up going down such a dark path one word
going down such a dark path one word
going down such a dark path one word potholes that’s right
potholes that’s right
potholes that’s right potholes I had a lot of potholes when I
potholes I had a lot of potholes when I
potholes I had a lot of potholes when I was a kid we all have them you know the
was a kid we all have them you know the
was a kid we all have them you know the things in life that we hit that
things in life that we hit that
things in life that we hit that invariably just kind of nudges off our
invariably just kind of nudges off our
invariably just kind of nudges off our path and if they remain unresolved or
path and if they remain unresolved or
path and if they remain unresolved or untreated or not dealt with sometimes we
untreated or not dealt with sometimes we
untreated or not dealt with sometimes we can get dangerously lost down pretty
can get dangerously lost down pretty
can get dangerously lost down pretty dark corridors potholes can be things
dark corridors potholes can be things
dark corridors potholes can be things like trauma abuse unemployment neglect
like trauma abuse unemployment neglect
like trauma abuse unemployment neglect untreated mental health conditions even
untreated mental health conditions even
untreated mental health conditions even privilege and if we hit enough potholes
privilege and if we hit enough potholes
privilege and if we hit enough potholes on our journey in life and we don’t have
on our journey in life and we don’t have
on our journey in life and we don’t have the resources or the help to navigate
the resources or the help to navigate
the resources or the help to navigate around them or to pull us out well
around them or to pull us out well
around them or to pull us out well sometimes good people end up doing bad
sometimes good people end up doing bad
sometimes good people end up doing bad things one such person who had potholes
things one such person who had potholes
things one such person who had potholes is Darrell Darrell is from upstate New
is Darrell Darrell is from upstate New
is Darrell Darrell is from upstate New York and he had read my memoir and he
York and he had read my memoir and he
York and he had read my memoir and he was really upset about the ending you
was really upset about the ending you
was really upset about the ending you see I had gotten out of the movement and
see I had gotten out of the movement and
see I had gotten out of the movement and he was still in and you know he emailed
he was still in and you know he emailed
he was still in and you know he emailed me and he said you know I didn’t really
me and he said you know I didn’t really
me and he said you know I didn’t really like the way that turned out and I want
like the way that turned out and I want
like the way that turned out and I want you know I’m sorry
but if you want to talk about it we
but if you want to talk about it we could certainly do that and after a
could certainly do that and after a
could certainly do that and after a couple of weeks of going back and forth
couple of weeks of going back and forth
couple of weeks of going back and forth with Darrell I learned he was a 31 year
with Darrell I learned he was a 31 year
with Darrell I learned he was a 31 year old military veteran who had been
old military veteran who had been
old military veteran who had been injured and was really angry about not
injured and was really angry about not
injured and was really angry about not being able to go to Afghanistan to kill
being able to go to Afghanistan to kill
being able to go to Afghanistan to kill Muslims and one day on the phone he told
Muslims and one day on the phone he told
Muslims and one day on the phone he told me that he had seen a Muslim man in the
me that he had seen a Muslim man in the
me that he had seen a Muslim man in the park praying and that all he wanted to
park praying and that all he wanted to
park praying and that all he wanted to do was kick him in the face I flew to
do was kick him in the face I flew to
do was kick him in the face I flew to Buffalo the next day and I sat down with
Buffalo the next day and I sat down with
Buffalo the next day and I sat down with Daryl and I asked him have you ever met
Daryl and I asked him have you ever met
Daryl and I asked him have you ever met a Muslim person before he said no why
a Muslim person before he said no why
a Muslim person before he said no why the hell would I want to do that they’re
the hell would I want to do that they’re
the hell would I want to do that they’re evil I don’t want anything to do with
evil I don’t want anything to do with
evil I don’t want anything to do with them I said okay so I excused myself and
them I said okay so I excused myself and
them I said okay so I excused myself and I went into the bathroom and I took my
I went into the bathroom and I took my
I went into the bathroom and I took my phone out in the bathroom and I googled
phone out in the bathroom and I googled
phone out in the bathroom and I googled the local mosque and I called them very
the local mosque and I called them very
the local mosque and I called them very quietly from the bathroom and I said
quietly from the bathroom and I said
quietly from the bathroom and I said excuse me Imam I need a favor I have a
excuse me Imam I need a favor I have a
excuse me Imam I need a favor I have a Christian man who would really love to
Christian man who would really love to
Christian man who would really love to learn more about your religion do you
learn more about your religion do you
learn more about your religion do you mind if we stop by well it took some
mind if we stop by well it took some
mind if we stop by well it took some convincing for Daryl to go but finally
convincing for Daryl to go but finally
convincing for Daryl to go but finally we got there and when I knocked out of
we got there and when I knocked out of
we got there and when I knocked out of the door the Imam said he only had 15
the door the Imam said he only had 15
the door the Imam said he only had 15 minutes left for us because he was
minutes left for us because he was
minutes left for us because he was preparing for a prayer service I said
preparing for a prayer service I said
preparing for a prayer service I said we’ll take it we went in and two and a
we’ll take it we went in and two and a
we’ll take it we went in and two and a half hours later we came out after
half hours later we came out after
half hours later we came out after hugging and crying and very strangely
hugging and crying and very strangely
hugging and crying and very strangely bonding over Chuck Norris for some
bonding over Chuck Norris for some
bonding over Chuck Norris for some reason I don’t know who was what it was
reason I don’t know who was what it was
reason I don’t know who was what it was about that but that’s what happened and
about that but that’s what happened and
about that but that’s what happened and I’m happy to say now that Daryl and the
I’m happy to say now that Daryl and the
I’m happy to say now that Daryl and the Imam you can often find them at the
Imam you can often find them at the
Imam you can often find them at the local falafel stand having lunch
local falafel stand having lunch
local falafel stand having lunch together
you see it’s our disconnection from each
you see it’s our disconnection from each other
other
other hatred is born of ignorance fear is its
hatred is born of ignorance fear is its
hatred is born of ignorance fear is its father an isolation is its mother when
father an isolation is its mother when
father an isolation is its mother when we don’t understand something we tend to
we don’t understand something we tend to
we don’t understand something we tend to be afraid of it and if we keep ourselves
be afraid of it and if we keep ourselves
be afraid of it and if we keep ourselves from it that fear grows and sometimes it
from it that fear grows and sometimes it
from it that fear grows and sometimes it turns into hatred I’ve since I’ve left
turns into hatred I’ve since I’ve left
turns into hatred I’ve since I’ve left the movement I’ve helped over a hundred
the movement I’ve helped over a hundred
the movement I’ve helped over a hundred people disengage from extremist
people disengage from extremist
people disengage from extremist movements from white supremacist groups
– even jihadist groups and the way I do
– even jihadist groups and the way I do that is not by arguing with them not by
that is not by arguing with them not by
that is not by arguing with them not by debating them not by even telling them
debating them not by even telling them
debating them not by even telling them they’re wrong
they’re wrong
they’re wrong even though boy I want to sometimes I
even though boy I want to sometimes I
even though boy I want to sometimes I don’t do that instead I don’t push them
don’t do that instead I don’t push them
don’t do that instead I don’t push them away I draw them in closer and I listen
away I draw them in closer and I listen
away I draw them in closer and I listen very closely
very closely
very closely for their potholes and then I begin to
for their potholes and then I begin to
for their potholes and then I begin to fill them in I try to make people more
fill them in I try to make people more
fill them in I try to make people more resilient more self-confident more able
resilient more self-confident more able
resilient more self-confident more able to have skills to compete in the
to have skills to compete in the
to have skills to compete in the marketplace so that they don’t have to
marketplace so that they don’t have to
marketplace so that they don’t have to blame the other the other that they’ve
blame the other the other that they’ve
blame the other the other that they’ve never met I’d like to just leave you
never met I’d like to just leave you
never met I’d like to just leave you with one last thing before I go
with one last thing before I go
with one last thing before I go of all the people I’ve worked with they
of all the people I’ve worked with they
of all the people I’ve worked with they will all tell you the same thing
will all tell you the same thing
will all tell you the same thing one they became extremists because they
one they became extremists because they
one they became extremists because they wanted to belong not because of ideology
wanted to belong not because of ideology
wanted to belong not because of ideology or Dogma and second what brought them
or Dogma and second what brought them
or Dogma and second what brought them out was receiving compassion from the
out was receiving compassion from the
out was receiving compassion from the people they least deserved it from when
people they least deserved it from when
people they least deserved it from when they least deserved it and they were the
they least deserved it and they were the
they least deserved it and they were the people they least deserved it from so I
people they least deserved it from so I
people they least deserved it from so I would like to leave you with a challenge
would like to leave you with a challenge
would like to leave you with a challenge go out there today tomorrow hopefully
go out there today tomorrow hopefully
go out there today tomorrow hopefully every day find somebody that you think
every day find somebody that you think
every day find somebody that you think is undeserving of your compassion and
is undeserving of your compassion and
is undeserving of your compassion and give it to them because I guarantee you
give it to them because I guarantee you
give it to them because I guarantee you they’re the ones who need it the most
they’re the ones who need it the most
they’re the ones who need it the most thank you very much
thank you very much
thank you very much [Applause]
”
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