first of all I’m going to say something a little bit about the the title slide
a little bit about the the title slide
a little bit about the the title slide any of you who’ve taken part in a
any of you who’ve taken part in a
any of you who’ve taken part in a referendum will know that it’s it’s
referendum will know that it’s it’s
referendum will know that it’s it’s interesting because it’s a vote that’s
interesting because it’s a vote that’s
interesting because it’s a vote that’s given over to the entire public or the
given over to the entire public or the
given over to the entire public or the entire voting public rather than a
entire voting public rather than a
entire voting public rather than a decision that’s kept in the hands of a
decision that’s kept in the hands of a
decision that’s kept in the hands of a small number of elected representatives
small number of elected representatives
small number of elected representatives and the reason I’ve called my talk
and the reason I’ve called my talk
and the reason I’ve called my talk demagoguery hard to say or democracy in
demagoguery hard to say or democracy in
demagoguery hard to say or democracy in action is that demagoguery or some
action is that demagoguery or some
action is that demagoguery or some definitions of that phrase kind of
definitions of that phrase kind of
definitions of that phrase kind of summon up a sort of a political agitator
summon up a sort of a political agitator
summon up a sort of a political agitator or a leader that relies purely on drug
or a leader that relies purely on drug
or a leader that relies purely on drug drumming up strong strong emotions even
drumming up strong strong emotions even
drumming up strong strong emotions even kind of mob rule if you like as opposed
kind of mob rule if you like as opposed
kind of mob rule if you like as opposed to a more reason deliberation and what I
to a more reason deliberation and what I
to a more reason deliberation and what I wanted to explore in about just 10
wanted to explore in about just 10
wanted to explore in about just 10 minutes I think it will be it’s that
minutes I think it will be it’s that
minutes I think it will be it’s that idea of what a referendum is in our
idea of what a referendum is in our
idea of what a referendum is in our democracy the place of emotion in it and
democracy the place of emotion in it and
democracy the place of emotion in it and the place of Reason deliberation and
the place of Reason deliberation and
the place of Reason deliberation and whether they can be a force for good or
whether they can be a force for good or
whether they can be a force for good or a force for ill in our democracy well
a force for ill in our democracy well
a force for ill in our democracy well our journey today begins in Scotland in
our journey today begins in Scotland in
our journey today begins in Scotland in Glasgow and if we got any Glaswegians
Glasgow and if we got any Glaswegians
Glasgow and if we got any Glaswegians here but several months before the
here but several months before the
here but several months before the Scottish independence referendum in 2014
Scottish independence referendum in 2014
Scottish independence referendum in 2014 I was in Glasgow I guess it was a time
I was in Glasgow I guess it was a time
I was in Glasgow I guess it was a time this was several months before the
this was several months before the
this was several months before the referendum but already the world’s eyes
referendum but already the world’s eyes
referendum but already the world’s eyes were on Scotland thinking is this
were on Scotland thinking is this
were on Scotland thinking is this country going to become an independent
country going to become an independent
country going to become an independent country or is it going to choose to stay
country or is it going to choose to stay
country or is it going to choose to stay part of the UK and that the electoral
part of the UK and that the electoral
part of the UK and that the electoral reform society which is the organization
reform society which is the organization
reform society which is the organization that I run an organization that’s trying
that I run an organization that’s trying
that I run an organization that’s trying to bring about a more healthy democracy
to bring about a more healthy democracy
to bring about a more healthy democracy in the United Kingdom we wanted to get
in the United Kingdom we wanted to get
in the United Kingdom we wanted to get underneath the stay leave decision that
underneath the stay leave decision that
underneath the stay leave decision that Scots were being asked to make and we
Scots were being asked to make and we
Scots were being asked to make and we wanted to explore a little bit more
wanted to explore a little bit more
wanted to explore a little bit more deeply about democratic participation so
deeply about democratic participation so
deeply about democratic participation so you’ve got some lovely images there of
you’ve got some lovely images there of
you’ve got some lovely images there of just how seriously the Scots took the
just how seriously the Scots took the
just how seriously the Scots took the vote and how sort of energetically they
vote and how sort of energetically they
vote and how sort of energetically they got involved but the group that we
got involved but the group that we
got involved but the group that we brought together we asked two companies
brought together we asked two companies
brought together we asked two companies bring some some groups together had one
bring some some groups together had one
bring some some groups together had one thing in common and this was their lack
thing in common and this was their lack
thing in common and this was their lack of democratic participation these were
of democratic participation these were
of democratic participation these were people who never vote ever no matter
people who never vote ever no matter
people who never vote ever no matter what the issue no matter what the
what the issue no matter what the
what the issue no matter what the election no matter if a candidate’s
election no matter if a candidate’s
election no matter if a candidate’s bothered to knock on their door they
bothered to knock on their door they
bothered to knock on their door they never vote some of them had voted some
never vote some of them had voted some
never vote some of them had voted some of the older people had voted in the
of the older people had voted in the
of the older people had voted in the past and then they’d given up couldn’t
past and then they’d given up couldn’t
past and then they’d given up couldn’t see the point of it and most of the
see the point of it and most of the
see the point of it and most of the younger people had never voted at all
younger people had never voted at all
younger people had never voted at all and my colleague Willie Sullivan who’s
and my colleague Willie Sullivan who’s
and my colleague Willie Sullivan who’s the director of the electoral reform
the director of the electoral reform
the director of the electoral reform Society in Scotland calls these people
Society in Scotland calls these people
Society in Scotland calls these people the missing millions and he’s written a
the missing millions and he’s written a
the missing millions and he’s written a book about it which which you might want
book about it which which you might want
book about it which which you might want to go away and read what I wanted to
to go away and read what I wanted to
to go away and read what I wanted to tell you about this group of people is
tell you about this group of people is
tell you about this group of people is that we basically just it was quite a
that we basically just it was quite a
that we basically just it was quite a small group and we just went round the
small group and we just went round the
small group and we just went round the table and we said so so you’re you know
table and we said so so you’re you know
table and we said so so you’re you know you you don’t ever seem to vote but what
you you don’t ever seem to vote but what
you you don’t ever seem to vote but what about this Scottish independence
about this Scottish independence
about this Scottish independence referendum what about this are you going
referendum what about this are you going
referendum what about this are you going to vote every single person said they
to vote every single person said they
to vote every single person said they were going to vote why it’s the future
were going to vote why it’s the future
were going to vote why it’s the future of my country and so in this they had
of my country and so in this they had
of my country and so in this they had found something of meaning something
found something of meaning something
found something of meaning something that was worthwhile and that was why
that was worthwhile and that was why
that was worthwhile and that was why they wanted to have their say and then
they wanted to have their say and then
they wanted to have their say and then on polling day when ninety-seven percent
on polling day when ninety-seven percent
on polling day when ninety-seven percent of the Scots the Scottish people were
of the Scots the Scottish people were
of the Scots the Scottish people were registered to vote and eighty-five
registered to vote and eighty-five
registered to vote and eighty-five percent turned out I think we really saw
percent turned out I think we really saw
percent turned out I think we really saw the sign of the truth of those groups
the sign of the truth of those groups
the sign of the truth of those groups had told this was a decision that was
had told this was a decision that was
had told this was a decision that was worth being part of it was a really
worth being part of it was a really
worth being part of it was a really something they felt almost magnificently
something they felt almost magnificently
something they felt almost magnificently important and and that it was worth
important and and that it was worth
important and and that it was worth their time it was worth their while that
their time it was worth their while that
their time it was worth their while that there was something extraordinary about
there was something extraordinary about
there was something extraordinary about the the length and the breadth of the
the the length and the breadth of the
the the length and the breadth of the participation that you saw in the
participation that you saw in the
participation that you saw in the Scottish referendum it really showed
Scottish referendum it really showed
Scottish referendum it really showed what a referendum can do that it will
what a referendum can do that it will
what a referendum can do that it will energize people with those huge numbers
energize people with those huge numbers
energize people with those huge numbers and there was something about the length
and there was something about the length
and there was something about the length of time that people had their which I’ll
of time that people had their which I’ll
of time that people had their which I’ll touch on as well for the debate so that
touch on as well for the debate so that
touch on as well for the debate so that was that was the kind of an
was that was the kind of an
was that was the kind of an extraordinary example if you like of the
extraordinary example if you like of the
extraordinary example if you like of the kind of length and breadth and depth of
kind of length and breadth and depth of
kind of length and breadth and depth of political participation that can happen
political participation that can happen
political participation that can happen in a country well fast forward a couple
in a country well fast forward a couple
in a country well fast forward a couple of years to this summer and the twins
of years to this summer and the twins
of years to this summer and the twins third of June and Britain’s voted
third of June and Britain’s voted
third of June and Britain’s voted 52-percent to forty-eight percent to
52-percent to forty-eight percent to
52-percent to forty-eight percent to leave the European Union well I was back
leave the European Union well I was back
leave the European Union well I was back in my local gym that the weekend after
in my local gym that the weekend after
in my local gym that the weekend after the vote and I haven’t been there for
the vote and I haven’t been there for
the vote and I haven’t been there for some time because it had been an
some time because it had been an
some time because it had been an intensely busy time at work and at my
intensely busy time at work and at my
intensely busy time at work and at my local gym it’s very unusual to overhear
local gym it’s very unusual to overhear
local gym it’s very unusual to overhear much political chat at maybe the sort of
much political chat at maybe the sort of
much political chat at maybe the sort of heavy breathing and the heart FM don’t
heavy breathing and the heart FM don’t
heavy breathing and the heart FM don’t know the kind of the loud sounds in the
know the kind of the loud sounds in the
know the kind of the loud sounds in the gym or it might just be that there’s not
gym or it might just be that there’s not
gym or it might just be that there’s not that much chat going on and in fact the
that much chat going on and in fact the
that much chat going on and in fact the last time I’d had any kind of a
last time I’d had any kind of a
last time I’d had any kind of a political conversation at the gym had
political conversation at the gym had
political conversation at the gym had been a couple of days after the general
been a couple of days after the general
been a couple of days after the general election in early May in 2015 and I was
election in early May in 2015 and I was
election in early May in 2015 and I was lying on a mat doing my warm-up
lying on a mat doing my warm-up
lying on a mat doing my warm-up exercises and a neighbor of mine and her
exercises and a neighbor of mine and her
exercises and a neighbor of mine and her friend came over and they’d spotted me
friend came over and they’d spotted me
friend came over and they’d spotted me on television talking about the 5
on television talking about the 5
on television talking about the 5 million people who voted for the United
million people who voted for the United
million people who voted for the United Kingdom Independence Party and the green
Kingdom Independence Party and the green
Kingdom Independence Party and the green party at the general election and had
party at the general election and had
party at the general election and had only ended up with one member of
only ended up with one member of
only ended up with one member of parliament apiece for all those folks
parliament apiece for all those folks
parliament apiece for all those folks that had all had been all the
that had all had been all the
that had all had been all the representation it had added up to anyway
representation it had added up to anyway
representation it had added up to anyway they’d heard about that and they wanted
they’d heard about that and they wanted
they’d heard about that and they wanted to talk to me about it but this time
to talk to me about it but this time
to talk to me about it but this time round there were three men probably in
round there were three men probably in
round there were three men probably in their twenties i would guess and they
their twenties i would guess and they
their twenties i would guess and they were having an incredibly energetic talk
were having an incredibly energetic talk
were having an incredibly energetic talk about the EU vote so this was a couple
about the EU vote so this was a couple
about the EU vote so this was a couple of days after the referendum when we
of days after the referendum when we
of days after the referendum when we decided as a country to leave the
decided as a country to leave the
decided as a country to leave the european union and they were using
european union and they were using
european union and they were using extremely colorful language that i won’t
extremely colorful language that i won’t
extremely colorful language that i won’t repeat today but they were saying
repeat today but they were saying
repeat today but they were saying jean-claude juncker norway that’s never
jean-claude juncker norway that’s never
jean-claude juncker norway that’s never going to work here and so on and they
going to work here and so on and they
going to work here and so on and they were demonstrating a concrete and
were demonstrating a concrete and
were demonstrating a concrete and detailed grasp of the issues underlying
detailed grasp of the issues underlying
detailed grasp of the issues underlying that important vote and then they
that important vote and then they
that important vote and then they politely stepped aside to let me get to
politely stepped aside to let me get to
politely stepped aside to let me get to the weights machine and then they
the weights machine and then they
the weights machine and then they carried on with their debate about the
carried on with their debate about the
carried on with their debate about the EU well this really got me thinking
EU well this really got me thinking
EU well this really got me thinking about what is
about what is
about what is it’s that brings politics into the
it’s that brings politics into the
it’s that brings politics into the mainstream so the café’s to the gyms to
mainstream so the café’s to the gyms to
mainstream so the café’s to the gyms to the bus stops what is it that that
the bus stops what is it that that
the bus stops what is it that that brings us to that political table if you
brings us to that political table if you
brings us to that political table if you like or brings politics into a load into
like or brings politics into a load into
like or brings politics into a load into the places where we spend our lives and
the places where we spend our lives and
the places where we spend our lives and I was struck by for me one of the
I was struck by for me one of the
I was struck by for me one of the symbols of the other pictures I have in
symbols of the other pictures I have in
symbols of the other pictures I have in my mind when I think about the Scottish
my mind when I think about the Scottish
my mind when I think about the Scottish independence referendum which was the
independence referendum which was the
independence referendum which was the women who were on hen night discussing
women who were on hen night discussing
women who were on hen night discussing the future of the currency in Scotland
the future of the currency in Scotland
the future of the currency in Scotland should Scotland decide to become an
should Scotland decide to become an
should Scotland decide to become an independent country and for me this has
independent country and for me this has
independent country and for me this has become one of the symbols of the extent
become one of the symbols of the extent
become one of the symbols of the extent of the democratic participation that
of the democratic participation that
of the democratic participation that took place in Scotland people seized the
took place in Scotland people seized the
took place in Scotland people seized the agenda for themselves they became
agenda for themselves they became
agenda for themselves they became knowledgeable they took the agenda if
knowledgeable they took the agenda if
knowledgeable they took the agenda if you like from the formal campaigns and
you like from the formal campaigns and
you like from the formal campaigns and from the elites and they made it
from the elites and they made it
from the elites and they made it something for them and they dissected
something for them and they dissected
something for them and they dissected the issues and they talked about the
the issues and they talked about the
the issues and they talked about the issues for themselves so done well I
issues for themselves so done well I
issues for themselves so done well I would argue that a referendum a public
would argue that a referendum a public
would argue that a referendum a public vote that’s thrown open to every single
vote that’s thrown open to every single
vote that’s thrown open to every single one of us on the register to take part
one of us on the register to take part
one of us on the register to take part on can cut through to people and get
on can cut through to people and get
on can cut through to people and get into the heart of their lives even in
into the heart of their lives even in
into the heart of their lives even in this cynical error if the topic is right
this cynical error if the topic is right
this cynical error if the topic is right a referendum can get an issue out there
a referendum can get an issue out there
a referendum can get an issue out there and it can be something that people
and it can be something that people
and it can be something that people really grapple with and of course in a
really grapple with and of course in a
really grapple with and of course in a referendum in a vote that is thrown open
referendum in a vote that is thrown open
referendum in a vote that is thrown open to all of us every single vote counts I
to all of us every single vote counts I
to all of us every single vote counts I don’t know if any of you here were part
don’t know if any of you here were part
don’t know if any of you here were part of the surge in membership that some
of the surge in membership that some
of the surge in membership that some political parties found happened after
political parties found happened after
political parties found happened after the EU referendum some of you might have
the EU referendum some of you might have
the EU referendum some of you might have even join joined parties or rejoined
even join joined parties or rejoined
even join joined parties or rejoined parties I don’t know but at the
parties I don’t know but at the
parties I don’t know but at the electoral reform society my my
electoral reform society my my
electoral reform society my my independent non-governmental
independent non-governmental
independent non-governmental organization we had our own mini surge
organization we had our own mini surge
organization we had our own mini surge in membership and hundreds of people
in membership and hundreds of people
in membership and hundreds of people contacted us why were they joining the
contacted us why were they joining the
contacted us why were they joining the electoral reform society they said my
electoral reform society they said my
electoral reform society they said my vote has just counted in the referendum
vote has just counted in the referendum
vote has just counted in the referendum it didn’t matter where I lived in the
it didn’t matter where I lived in the
it didn’t matter where I lived in the country my vote had the same value as as
country my vote had the same value as as
country my vote had the same value as as someone else’s vote
someone else’s vote
someone else’s vote were no safe seats seats that always go
were no safe seats seats that always go
were no safe seats seats that always go to the same party as they say you pin a
to the same party as they say you pin a
to the same party as they say you pin a rose s on a donkey and the same party
rose s on a donkey and the same party
rose s on a donkey and the same party gets in however you have cast your vote
gets in however you have cast your vote
gets in however you have cast your vote there was none of that there were no
there was none of that there were no
there was none of that there were no post code lotteries wherever you were in
post code lotteries wherever you were in
post code lotteries wherever you were in the country your vote was of equal value
the country your vote was of equal value
the country your vote was of equal value and so many more people have joined our
and so many more people have joined our
and so many more people have joined our society in our cause because they want a
society in our cause because they want a
society in our cause because they want a voting system that can give equal value
voting system that can give equal value
voting system that can give equal value an equal voice now the result was of the
an equal voice now the result was of the
an equal voice now the result was of the EU vote the the voter you leave the
EU vote the the voter you leave the
EU vote the the voter you leave the European Union was clear and it was
European Union was clear and it was
European Union was clear and it was decisive but many of us felt
decisive but many of us felt
decisive but many of us felt dissatisfied and many people on both
dissatisfied and many people on both
dissatisfied and many people on both sides of the debate felt too satisfied
sides of the debate felt too satisfied
sides of the debate felt too satisfied about the the quality of the debate and
about the the quality of the debate and
about the the quality of the debate and the the the information we wanted to
the the the information we wanted to
the the the information we wanted to take a closer look at that and
take a closer look at that and
take a closer look at that and understand that why was it that with a
understand that why was it that with a
understand that why was it that with a really quite a good turnout seventy-two
really quite a good turnout seventy-two
really quite a good turnout seventy-two percent more than in the general
percent more than in the general
percent more than in the general election the parliamentary election why
election the parliamentary election why
election the parliamentary election why was it that we felt so dissatisfied and
was it that we felt so dissatisfied and
was it that we felt so dissatisfied and so many people after the four months
so many people after the four months
so many people after the four months quite for quite intense months of the
quite for quite intense months of the
quite for quite intense months of the formal campaign just felt that the
formal campaign just felt that the
formal campaign just felt that the quality of the information and the
quality of the information and the
quality of the information and the public debate wasn’t good enough and it
public debate wasn’t good enough and it
public debate wasn’t good enough and it didn’t match up to the interest that
didn’t match up to the interest that
didn’t match up to the interest that people had well we took a closer look at
people had well we took a closer look at
people had well we took a closer look at this and my colleague will has collated
this and my colleague will has collated
this and my colleague will has collated the information and it was a real team
the information and it was a real team
the information and it was a real team effort and we just tried to do some
effort and we just tried to do some
effort and we just tried to do some dissection we tried to get under that
dissection we tried to get under that
dissection we tried to get under that understand understand that
understand understand that
understand understand that dissatisfaction a little bit more we had
dissatisfaction a little bit more we had
dissatisfaction a little bit more we had conducted surveys throughout the
conducted surveys throughout the
conducted surveys throughout the campaign that really looked at how
campaign that really looked at how
campaign that really looked at how people were feeling what was their
people were feeling what was their
people were feeling what was their actual experience not just what we were
actual experience not just what we were
actual experience not just what we were being told by the campaign’s but what
being told by the campaign’s but what
being told by the campaign’s but what were the information sources they were
were the information sources they were
were the information sources they were using who were they trusting or not
using who were they trusting or not
using who were they trusting or not trusting how are they feeling about the
trusting how are they feeling about the
trusting how are they feeling about the experience and what we discovered was
experience and what we discovered was
experience and what we discovered was that time really matters it’s it’s an
that time really matters it’s it’s an
that time really matters it’s it’s an incredible experience today here we all
incredible experience today here we all
incredible experience today here we all are taking the time to hear from some
are taking the time to hear from some
are taking the time to hear from some quite extraordinary and witnessed some
quite extraordinary and witnessed some
quite extraordinary and witnessed some extraordinary people and interact with
extraordinary people and interact with
extraordinary people and interact with each other and and that’s a wonderful
each other and and that’s a wonderful
each other and and that’s a wonderful experience and journalists in this
experience and journalists in this
experience and journalists in this campaign
campaign
campaign were bored before the referendum
were bored before the referendum
were bored before the referendum campaign had even started but for the
campaign had even started but for the
campaign had even started but for the general public for all of us we needed
general public for all of us we needed
general public for all of us we needed time and we didn’t have it we needed the
time and we didn’t have it we needed the
time and we didn’t have it we needed the time and the space to really dissect and
time and the space to really dissect and
time and the space to really dissect and get to grips with the issues for
get to grips with the issues for
get to grips with the issues for ourselves let’s just look at this this
ourselves let’s just look at this this
ourselves let’s just look at this this spike that’s the 24th of June that’s
spike that’s the 24th of June that’s
spike that’s the 24th of June that’s Friday that polling day as we probably
Friday that polling day as we probably
Friday that polling day as we probably appreciate is is Thursday in this
appreciate is is Thursday in this
appreciate is is Thursday in this country this was on Friday the frequency
country this was on Friday the frequency
country this was on Friday the frequency of the phrase what is the EU googled in
of the phrase what is the EU googled in
of the phrase what is the EU googled in the UK people that this was a high
the UK people that this was a high
the UK people that this was a high interest but low information referendum
interest but low information referendum
interest but low information referendum people were really interested in anybody
people were really interested in anybody
people were really interested in anybody tell you that people in this country
tell you that people in this country
tell you that people in this country were not interested they had a high
were not interested they had a high
were not interested they had a high level of interest so it was as though
level of interest so it was as though
level of interest so it was as though people didn’t get the richness of
people didn’t get the richness of
people didn’t get the richness of information the time and space to
information the time and space to
information the time and space to breathe and to deliberate that their
breathe and to deliberate that their
breathe and to deliberate that their interest really mattered they didn’t get
interest really mattered they didn’t get
interest really mattered they didn’t get the campaign that they deserved what’s
the campaign that they deserved what’s
the campaign that they deserved what’s the solution well the first thing we
the solution well the first thing we
the solution well the first thing we have to do is to understand what kind of
have to do is to understand what kind of
have to do is to understand what kind of a creature referendums our little bit ly
a creature referendums our little bit ly
a creature referendums our little bit ly British star we’ve tapped referendums
British star we’ve tapped referendums
British star we’ve tapped referendums public votes that have thrown open for a
public votes that have thrown open for a
public votes that have thrown open for a direct say by anybody who wants to get
direct say by anybody who wants to get
direct say by anybody who wants to get on the register and have that say took a
on the register and have that say took a
on the register and have that say took a fairly traditional representative
fairly traditional representative
fairly traditional representative democracy a democracy that is evolving
democracy a democracy that is evolving
democracy a democracy that is evolving and bringing in more participation and
and bringing in more participation and
and bringing in more participation and deliberation we need to think before we
deliberation we need to think before we
deliberation we need to think before we have any more referendums about how what
have any more referendums about how what
have any more referendums about how what sort of a creature this is and how does
sort of a creature this is and how does
sort of a creature this is and how does it lit in with other elements of our
it lit in with other elements of our
it lit in with other elements of our democracy don’t let’s wait until after
democracy don’t let’s wait until after
democracy don’t let’s wait until after the vote to then consider how does
the vote to then consider how does
the vote to then consider how does Parliament’s role reflect or knitting
Parliament’s role reflect or knitting
Parliament’s role reflect or knitting with the say that the people have just
with the say that the people have just
with the say that the people have just had second we need to do referendums
had second we need to do referendums
had second we need to do referendums differently the public should be back in
differently the public should be back in
differently the public should be back in control of referendums it not enough to
control of referendums it not enough to
control of referendums it not enough to just say that everybody shall have a
just say that everybody shall have a
just say that everybody shall have a vote that doesn’t in itself guarantee
vote that doesn’t in itself guarantee
vote that doesn’t in itself guarantee meaningful public participation there
meaningful public participation there
meaningful public participation there needs to be much more thought given to
needs to be much more thought given to
needs to be much more thought given to the public
the public
the public roll from the very beginning of citizens
roll from the very beginning of citizens
roll from the very beginning of citizens panels to help shape the terms of the
panels to help shape the terms of the
panels to help shape the terms of the debate of the referendum the framework
debate of the referendum the framework
debate of the referendum the framework the lenses through which will be seeing
the lenses through which will be seeing
the lenses through which will be seeing this important decision there need to be
this important decision there need to be
this important decision there need to be proper resources and publicly funded
proper resources and publicly funded
proper resources and publicly funded open forums and above all balanced facts
open forums and above all balanced facts
open forums and above all balanced facts a fat book if you like or a minimum data
a fat book if you like or a minimum data
a fat book if you like or a minimum data set that people can trust to be the
set that people can trust to be the
set that people can trust to be the basis of their conversations and
basis of their conversations and
basis of their conversations and deliberations the second bit of doing
deliberations the second bit of doing
deliberations the second bit of doing referendums differently is about ground
referendums differently is about ground
referendums differently is about ground rules we need a referendum rule book so
rules we need a referendum rule book so
rules we need a referendum rule book so that everybody knows where they are the
that everybody knows where they are the
that everybody knows where they are the campaigns and the public and we need
campaigns and the public and we need
campaigns and the public and we need tough enforcement measures so that when
tough enforcement measures so that when
tough enforcement measures so that when eva campaign site makes a wildly
eva campaign site makes a wildly
eva campaign site makes a wildly misleading claim it’s called out at the
misleading claim it’s called out at the
misleading claim it’s called out at the time and tough enforcement action is
time and tough enforcement action is
time and tough enforcement action is taken and we saw in the european union
taken and we saw in the european union
taken and we saw in the european union vote both that on both sides of a say
vote both that on both sides of a say
vote both that on both sides of a say and the leave there were some vast
and the leave there were some vast
and the leave there were some vast claims made about how much it would cost
claims made about how much it would cost
claims made about how much it would cost the public and the public person
the public and the public person
the public and the public person individual households on one side if the
individual households on one side if the
individual households on one side if the decision was to be made and on the other
decision was to be made and on the other
decision was to be made and on the other side there was a 350 million pounds that
side there was a 350 million pounds that
side there was a 350 million pounds that were going to the NHS so both sides made
were going to the NHS so both sides made
were going to the NHS so both sides made wildly exaggerated claims and we think
wildly exaggerated claims and we think
wildly exaggerated claims and we think that they should be an official body
that they should be an official body
that they should be an official body that could call those out during the
that could call those out during the
that could call those out during the campaign and take action finally we want
campaign and take action finally we want
campaign and take action finally we want referendums to be far more deliberative
referendums to be far more deliberative
referendums to be far more deliberative we want that time and that breathing
we want that time and that breathing
we want that time and that breathing space to be there so that by all means
space to be there so that by all means
space to be there so that by all means we should have high emotion in a
we should have high emotion in a
we should have high emotion in a discussion politics should be emotional
discussion politics should be emotional
discussion politics should be emotional but there should also be the time in the
but there should also be the time in the
but there should also be the time in the breathing space as well for people to
breathing space as well for people to
breathing space as well for people to deliberate to discuss to debate among
deliberate to discuss to debate among
deliberate to discuss to debate among themselves at their best referendums can
themselves at their best referendums can
themselves at their best referendums can be an inspiration in public dialogue
be an inspiration in public dialogue
be an inspiration in public dialogue they can actually give us a chance over
they can actually give us a chance over
they can actually give us a chance over over the long term to become more
over the long term to become more
over the long term to become more democratic citizens more involved in
democratic citizens more involved in
democratic citizens more involved in politics but at their worst they make us
politics but at their worst they make us
politics but at their worst they make us more divided they make us more
more divided they make us more
more divided they make us more distrustful of each other’s ability to
distrustful of each other’s ability to
distrustful of each other’s ability to make a good decision I feel that in the
make a good decision I feel that in the
make a good decision I feel that in the UK we are really guinea pigs we’re
UK we are really guinea pigs we’re
UK we are really guinea pigs we’re experimenting with referendums
but these are valuable experiments in
but these are valuable experiments in Ireland where there was a referendum on
Ireland where there was a referendum on
Ireland where there was a referendum on gay marriage the alternative vote
gay marriage the alternative vote
gay marriage the alternative vote referendum on the referendum on the
referendum on the referendum on the
referendum on the referendum on the voting system which crashed and burned
voting system which crashed and burned
voting system which crashed and burned this was in 2011 but as a rich source of
this was in 2011 but as a rich source of
this was in 2011 but as a rich source of learning about referendums on about how
learning about referendums on about how
learning about referendums on about how to achieve electoral reform in the
to achieve electoral reform in the
to achieve electoral reform in the future and the referendum experience
future and the referendum experience
future and the referendum experience that we’ve just had in this country so
that we’ve just had in this country so
that we’ve just had in this country so we do have a few more under our belts
we do have a few more under our belts
we do have a few more under our belts and we know so much more than we did now
and we know so much more than we did now
and we know so much more than we did now it’s up to us all to make sure that
it’s up to us all to make sure that
it’s up to us all to make sure that future referendums are done better and
future referendums are done better and
future referendums are done better and done differently thank you very much
done differently thank you very much
done differently thank you very much [Applause]
[Applause]
[Applause] you
you
you [Music]
”
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