[Applause] [Music]
so on the 29th of March 2014 it was a
so on the 29th of March 2014 it was a momentous day in this country and was
momentous day in this country and was
momentous day in this country and was the kind of day that’s normally
the kind of day that’s normally
the kind of day that’s normally associated with months if not years of
associated with months if not years of
associated with months if not years of planning extreme levels of stress
planning extreme levels of stress
planning extreme levels of stress copious amounts of alcohol and a great
copious amounts of alcohol and a great
copious amounts of alcohol and a great big fancy cake because this was the day
big fancy cake because this was the day
big fancy cake because this was the day that same-sex marriage became legal in
that same-sex marriage became legal in
that same-sex marriage became legal in Britain and by the end of the year at
Britain and by the end of the year at
Britain and by the end of the year at the end of 2014 just under five thousand
the end of 2014 just under five thousand
the end of 2014 just under five thousand people had married a partner of the same
people had married a partner of the same
people had married a partner of the same sex which you might think is the kind of
sex which you might think is the kind of
sex which you might think is the kind of thing that people would like to
thing that people would like to
thing that people would like to celebrate these are couples in love
celebrate these are couples in love
celebrate these are couples in love committing their lives to each other but
committing their lives to each other but
committing their lives to each other but not everybody was happy about this and
not everybody was happy about this and
not everybody was happy about this and 14 people in particular were very
14 people in particular were very
14 people in particular were very unhappy about this they were the bishops
unhappy about this they were the bishops
unhappy about this they were the bishops of the Church of England who in the
of the Church of England who in the
of the Church of England who in the House of Lords had voted against the
House of Lords had voted against the
House of Lords had voted against the legalization of same-sex marriage and in
legalization of same-sex marriage and in
legalization of same-sex marriage and in doing this the church were reflecting
doing this the church were reflecting
doing this the church were reflecting broader religious concerns in the
broader religious concerns in the
broader religious concerns in the country that legalizing same-sex
country that legalizing same-sex
country that legalizing same-sex marriage or as they put it
marriage or as they put it
marriage or as they put it redefining marriage would impose some
redefining marriage would impose some
redefining marriage would impose some kind of secular ideology and undermine
kind of secular ideology and undermine
kind of secular ideology and undermine their religious freedom and this
their religious freedom and this
their religious freedom and this conflict between the religious and the
conflict between the religious and the
conflict between the religious and the secular is something that affects
secular is something that affects
secular is something that affects people all over the world according to a
people all over the world according to a
people all over the world according to a recent study by the United States
recent study by the United States
recent study by the United States Commission on International Religious
Commission on International Religious
Commission on International Religious Freedom there are a total of 71
Freedom there are a total of 71
Freedom there are a total of 71 countries around the world with
countries around the world with
countries around the world with blasphemy laws or policies in place just
blasphemy laws or policies in place just
blasphemy laws or policies in place just going to pause for a second to let that
going to pause for a second to let that
going to pause for a second to let that sink in right 71 countries around the
sink in right 71 countries around the
sink in right 71 countries around the world with blasphemy laws or policies
world with blasphemy laws or policies
world with blasphemy laws or policies and 86 percent of these laws had prison
and 86 percent of these laws had prison
and 86 percent of these laws had prison sentences attached to them or in some
sentences attached to them or in some
sentences attached to them or in some cases punishments that were even more
cases punishments that were even more
cases punishments that were even more severe including death which is about as
severe including death which is about as
severe including death which is about as severe as it gets now you might have
severe as it gets now you might have
severe as it gets now you might have seen this is a very high-profile case
seen this is a very high-profile case
seen this is a very high-profile case it’s the case of Raef Badawi and he was
it’s the case of Raef Badawi and he was
it’s the case of Raef Badawi and he was a blogger and in 2014 was sentenced to
a blogger and in 2014 was sentenced to
a blogger and in 2014 was sentenced to ten years in prison
ten years in prison
ten years in prison and a thousand lashes for the crime of
and a thousand lashes for the crime of
and a thousand lashes for the crime of insulting Islam in Saudi Arabia but this
insulting Islam in Saudi Arabia but this
insulting Islam in Saudi Arabia but this isn’t just something that affects
isn’t just something that affects
isn’t just something that affects far-off countries with strict laws and
far-off countries with strict laws and
far-off countries with strict laws and in fact there’s a very good argument to
in fact there’s a very good argument to
in fact there’s a very good argument to say that in the same way that the 20th
say that in the same way that the 20th
say that in the same way that the 20th century was shaped by these big
century was shaped by these big
century was shaped by these big ideological conflicts and battles
ideological conflicts and battles
ideological conflicts and battles between capitalism communism and fascism
between capitalism communism and fascism
between capitalism communism and fascism that the 21st century will be shaped by
that the 21st century will be shaped by
that the 21st century will be shaped by these conflicts around the religious and
these conflicts around the religious and
these conflicts around the religious and the secular now reactions to the theme
the secular now reactions to the theme
the secular now reactions to the theme of religion tend to come in one of two
of religion tend to come in one of two
of religion tend to come in one of two forms on one side of the debate are
forms on one side of the debate are
forms on one side of the debate are people like the new atheists so sure you
people like the new atheists so sure you
people like the new atheists so sure you recognize this chap here Richard Dawkins
recognize this chap here Richard Dawkins
recognize this chap here Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris for example or the late
or Sam Harris for example or the late
or Sam Harris for example or the late Christopher Hitchens and
Christopher Hitchens and
Christopher Hitchens and they argue that religion is an
they argue that religion is an
they argue that religion is an irrational primitive dangerous force in
irrational primitive dangerous force in
irrational primitive dangerous force in the world and so when they talk about
the world and so when they talk about
the world and so when they talk about religion they very often highlight the
religion they very often highlight the
religion they very often highlight the violence that religion causes so this
violence that religion causes so this
violence that religion causes so this would be cases like 9/11 for example or
would be cases like 9/11 for example or
would be cases like 9/11 for example or the July 7 bombings in London 2005 or
the July 7 bombings in London 2005 or
the July 7 bombings in London 2005 or the rise of Isis and so from this
the rise of Isis and so from this
the rise of Isis and so from this perspective these conflicts around
perspective these conflicts around
perspective these conflicts around religion are innate to religion itself
religion are innate to religion itself
religion are innate to religion itself and religion has these unique qualities
and religion has these unique qualities
and religion has these unique qualities to it and so they argue that if we want
to it and so they argue that if we want
to it and so they argue that if we want to live together as a species religion
to live together as a species religion
to live together as a species religion needs to be controlled and contained and
needs to be controlled and contained and
needs to be controlled and contained and maybe even eliminated but certainly
maybe even eliminated but certainly
maybe even eliminated but certainly should be kept as far away as possible
should be kept as far away as possible
should be kept as far away as possible from political affairs on the other side
from political affairs on the other side
from political affairs on the other side of the argument our scholars and
of the argument our scholars and
of the argument our scholars and commentators like as you can see here
commentators like as you can see here
commentators like as you can see here this is Karen Armstrong or Tina Beattie
this is Karen Armstrong or Tina Beattie
this is Karen Armstrong or Tina Beattie Reza Aslan Keith ward for example who
Reza Aslan Keith ward for example who
Reza Aslan Keith ward for example who argue that these issues of religious
argue that these issues of religious
argue that these issues of religious violence are not unique to religion
violence are not unique to religion
violence are not unique to religion itself but these are misinterpretations
itself but these are misinterpretations
itself but these are misinterpretations of religion these are perversions of
of religion these are perversions of
of religion these are perversions of religion and so when they talk about
religion and so when they talk about
religion and so when they talk about religion they like to talk about the
religion they like to talk about the
religion they like to talk about the good things that religion does they see
good things that religion does they see
good things that religion does they see it being a positive benevolent force for
it being a positive benevolent force for
it being a positive benevolent force for good in the world so this would be
good in the world so this would be
good in the world so this would be things like providing people with a
things like providing people with a
things like providing people with a sense of meaning and identity bringing
sense of meaning and identity bringing
sense of meaning and identity bringing communities together inspiring people to
communities together inspiring people to
communities together inspiring people to go out and do good charitable deeds and
go out and do good charitable deeds and
go out and do good charitable deeds and it’s certainly true that there are lots
it’s certainly true that there are lots
it’s certainly true that there are lots of religiously inspired charities out
of religiously inspired charities out
of religiously inspired charities out there in the world in inhospitable
there in the world in inhospitable
there in the world in inhospitable dangerous places doing good work
dangerous places doing good work
dangerous places doing good work organizations like Muslim aid for
organizations like Muslim aid for
organizations like Muslim aid for example or kappahd and so from this
example or kappahd and so from this
example or kappahd and so from this perspective religion shouldn’t be kept
perspective religion shouldn’t be kept
perspective religion shouldn’t be kept out of politics but religion should be
out of politics but religion should be
out of politics but religion should be promoted and encouraged and empowered to
promoted and encouraged and empowered to
promoted and encouraged and empowered to do all of the good things that it’s
do all of the good things that it’s
do all of the good things that it’s capable
capable
capable of doing now both of these approaches
of doing now both of these approaches
of doing now both of these approaches have got a bit of a problem which is
have got a bit of a problem which is
have got a bit of a problem which is that they’re really talking about two
that they’re really talking about two
that they’re really talking about two sides of the same coin
sides of the same coin
sides of the same coin because the thing that makes religion do
because the thing that makes religion do
because the thing that makes religion do bad stuff like encouraging people to
bad stuff like encouraging people to
bad stuff like encouraging people to kill each other
kill each other
kill each other is the exact same thing that makes
is the exact same thing that makes
is the exact same thing that makes religion do good stuff like inspiring
religion do good stuff like inspiring
religion do good stuff like inspiring people to go and help each other and
people to go and help each other and
people to go and help each other and this thing is group identity and
this thing is group identity and
this thing is group identity and religion is really good at doing this
religion is really good at doing this
religion is really good at doing this after all what could be more important
after all what could be more important
after all what could be more important than the question of whether or not God
than the question of whether or not God
than the question of whether or not God exists and if God does exist what God
exists and if God does exist what God
exists and if God does exist what God wants from us or what will happen to us
wants from us or what will happen to us
wants from us or what will happen to us when we die these are some of the
when we die these are some of the
when we die these are some of the deepest most profound questions that
deepest most profound questions that
deepest most profound questions that human beings have ever asked and if
human beings have ever asked and if
human beings have ever asked and if religion cancer these questions and it
religion cancer these questions and it
religion cancer these questions and it claims to be able to answer these
claims to be able to answer these
claims to be able to answer these questions then religion can provide a
questions then religion can provide a
questions then religion can provide a very powerful bonding device between
very powerful bonding device between
very powerful bonding device between people who share the same kinds of
people who share the same kinds of
people who share the same kinds of belief okay but here’s the problem the
belief okay but here’s the problem the
belief okay but here’s the problem the process of establishing a group identity
process of establishing a group identity
process of establishing a group identity inevitably creates boundaries and
inevitably creates boundaries and
inevitably creates boundaries and divisions because in order to say who is
divisions because in order to say who is
divisions because in order to say who is inside the group you have to say who is
inside the group you have to say who is
inside the group you have to say who is outside the group so the process of
outside the group so the process of
outside the group so the process of constructing a group identity invariably
constructing a group identity invariably
constructing a group identity invariably creates dynamics of in and out as and
creates dynamics of in and out as and
creates dynamics of in and out as and then and these dynamics are all the more
then and these dynamics are all the more
then and these dynamics are all the more potent when you’re talking about
potent when you’re talking about
potent when you’re talking about something like religion which is after
something like religion which is after
something like religion which is after all a question of life the universe and
all a question of life the universe and
all a question of life the universe and everything right it doesn’t get more
everything right it doesn’t get more
everything right it doesn’t get more bigger than this it’s certainly more
bigger than this it’s certainly more
bigger than this it’s certainly more profound and important than more mundane
profound and important than more mundane
profound and important than more mundane matters in life like disputes over what
matters in life like disputes over what
matters in life like disputes over what kind of music you like or sports or the
kind of music you like or sports or the
kind of music you like or sports or the question as to whether you should put
question as to whether you should put
question as to whether you should put pineapple
pineapple
pineapple on a pizza which by the way the answer
on a pizza which by the way the answer
on a pizza which by the way the answer to that question is always no you should
to that question is always no you should
to that question is always no you should never ever put pineapple on a pizza and
never ever put pineapple on a pizza and
never ever put pineapple on a pizza and so this potential for conflict over
so this potential for conflict over
so this potential for conflict over these issues religious issues by the way
these issues religious issues by the way
these issues religious issues by the way not not the pizza issues as a separate
not not the pizza issues as a separate
not not the pizza issues as a separate thing all together the potential of the
thing all together the potential of the
thing all together the potential of the conflict over these particular issues is
conflict over these particular issues is
conflict over these particular issues is heightened all the more when they’re
heightened all the more when they’re
heightened all the more when they’re promoted politically by the state and
promoted politically by the state and
promoted politically by the state and you don’t have to look very far to see
you don’t have to look very far to see
you don’t have to look very far to see this in action in the United States at
this in action in the United States at
this in action in the United States at the present time Donald Trump has
the present time Donald Trump has
the present time Donald Trump has established very close links with the
established very close links with the
established very close links with the Christian Right and is currently
Christian Right and is currently
Christian Right and is currently pursuing an agenda based amongst other
pursuing an agenda based amongst other
pursuing an agenda based amongst other things on restricting women’s rights to
things on restricting women’s rights to
things on restricting women’s rights to reproductive health care limiting the
reproductive health care limiting the
reproductive health care limiting the availability of abortions undermining
availability of abortions undermining
availability of abortions undermining LGBT rights and so on so when you bring
LGBT rights and so on so when you bring
LGBT rights and so on so when you bring religion and politics together like this
religion and politics together like this
religion and politics together like this you create the recipe for potential
you create the recipe for potential
you create the recipe for potential conflicts and tensions disputes between
conflicts and tensions disputes between
conflicts and tensions disputes between people who have different worldviews
people who have different worldviews
people who have different worldviews different beliefs and different value
different beliefs and different value
different beliefs and different value systems so how do we solve a problem
systems so how do we solve a problem
systems so how do we solve a problem like this well I wasn’t asked to come
like this well I wasn’t asked to come
like this well I wasn’t asked to come here tonight to give you any answers
here tonight to give you any answers
here tonight to give you any answers these problems which is a good job
these problems which is a good job
these problems which is a good job because I don’t have any but one
because I don’t have any but one
because I don’t have any but one possible answer to this or one possible
possible answer to this or one possible
possible answer to this or one possible thing that could be part of an answer to
thing that could be part of an answer to
thing that could be part of an answer to this might be secularism now secularism
this might be secularism now secularism
this might be secularism now secularism very often gets a bad press oftentimes
very often gets a bad press oftentimes
very often gets a bad press oftentimes when you talk about secularism people
when you talk about secularism people
when you talk about secularism people think that you’re really using some kind
think that you’re really using some kind
think that you’re really using some kind of secret code for atheism or that
of secret code for atheism or that
of secret code for atheism or that secularism is in some way anti religious
secularism is in some way anti religious
secularism is in some way anti religious just to see how silly this idea is I
just to see how silly this idea is I
just to see how silly this idea is I again refer you to the case of the
again refer you to the case of the
again refer you to the case of the United States which despite the best
United States which despite the best
United States which despite the best efforts of the Christian Right and
efforts of the Christian Right and
efforts of the Christian Right and Donald Trump is a secular
Donald Trump is a secular
Donald Trump is a secular country he has a secular Constitution
country he has a secular Constitution
country he has a secular Constitution you know secular laws and it has a
you know secular laws and it has a
you know secular laws and it has a separation of church and state despite
separation of church and state despite
separation of church and state despite being one of the most religious
being one of the most religious
being one of the most religious countries on the planet and you know
countries on the planet and you know
countries on the planet and you know this is all really that secularism is
this is all really that secularism is
this is all really that secularism is this separation of church and state and
this separation of church and state and
this separation of church and state and this means two things first of all it
this means two things first of all it
this means two things first of all it means that the state is free from
means that the state is free from
means that the state is free from religion so religious authorities
religion so religious authorities
religion so religious authorities religious organizations don’t get to
religious organizations don’t get to
religious organizations don’t get to have special privileges in life they
have special privileges in life they
have special privileges in life they don’t get to vote directly on the laws
don’t get to vote directly on the laws
don’t get to vote directly on the laws that govern the lives of other people
that govern the lives of other people
that govern the lives of other people like voting in the house of laws to try
like voting in the house of laws to try
like voting in the house of laws to try and stop same-sex marriage but it also
and stop same-sex marriage but it also
and stop same-sex marriage but it also means and actually this is a point that
means and actually this is a point that
means and actually this is a point that very often gets lost when people talk
very often gets lost when people talk
very often gets lost when people talk about secularism it also means that
about secularism it also means that
about secularism it also means that religion is free of the state so
religion is free of the state so
religion is free of the state so politicians don’t get to impose their
politicians don’t get to impose their
politicians don’t get to impose their worldviews and their beliefs on
worldviews and their beliefs on
worldviews and their beliefs on religious organizations so currently in
religious organizations so currently in
religious organizations so currently in the UK for example which is not a
the UK for example which is not a
the UK for example which is not a secular country the Church of England
secular country the Church of England
secular country the Church of England has very close links to the states and
has very close links to the states and
has very close links to the states and if the Church of England wants to change
if the Church of England wants to change
if the Church of England wants to change any aspects of its liturgy the way in
any aspects of its liturgy the way in
any aspects of its liturgy the way in which it conducts worship its statement
which it conducts worship its statement
which it conducts worship its statement of the things that it believes it has to
of the things that it believes it has to
of the things that it believes it has to get formal approval from Parliament now
get formal approval from Parliament now
get formal approval from Parliament now these concepts are not difficult to get
these concepts are not difficult to get
these concepts are not difficult to get our heads around and the advantages are
our heads around and the advantages are
our heads around and the advantages are obvious freedom from religion means that
obvious freedom from religion means that
obvious freedom from religion means that individual citizens can go about their
individual citizens can go about their
individual citizens can go about their daily lives unencumbered by religious
daily lives unencumbered by religious
daily lives unencumbered by religious rules and regulations freedom of
rules and regulations freedom of
rules and regulations freedom of religion means that citizens are free to
religion means that citizens are free to
religion means that citizens are free to practice worship however they choose
practice worship however they choose
practice worship however they choose within the constraints of the law so
within the constraints of the law so
within the constraints of the law so there’s a very good argument then to say
there’s a very good argument then to say
there’s a very good argument then to say that by Framing the relationship between
that by Framing the relationship between
that by Framing the relationship between religion and politics in this way
religion and politics in this way
religion and politics in this way secularism is uniquely won equipped to
secularism is uniquely won equipped to
secularism is uniquely won equipped to uphold the rights of all citizens
uphold the rights of all citizens
uphold the rights of all citizens equally before the law
equally before the law
equally before the law or irrespective of their religion or
or irrespective of their religion or
or irrespective of their religion or belief but look I’m not here tonight to
belief but look I’m not here tonight to
belief but look I’m not here tonight to tell you that secularism is perfect okay
tell you that secularism is perfect okay
tell you that secularism is perfect okay because it’s not and secularism has
because it’s not and secularism has
because it’s not and secularism has problems too for one thing there’s no
problems too for one thing there’s no
problems too for one thing there’s no single form of secularism secularism in
single form of secularism secularism in
single form of secularism secularism in practice is shaped by the context in
practice is shaped by the context in
practice is shaped by the context in which it develops so secularism the
which it develops so secularism the
which it develops so secularism the United States is very different to
United States is very different to
United States is very different to secularism in France which is very
secularism in France which is very
secularism in France which is very different to secularism in India and
different to secularism in India and
different to secularism in India and some people may protest that secularism
some people may protest that secularism
some people may protest that secularism itself is trying to impose some kind of
itself is trying to impose some kind of
itself is trying to impose some kind of worldview on the rest of society okay
worldview on the rest of society okay
worldview on the rest of society okay but here’s my final point right there is
but here’s my final point right there is
but here’s my final point right there is no perfect answer to this question there
no perfect answer to this question there
no perfect answer to this question there is no silver bullet there is no magic
is no silver bullet there is no magic
is no silver bullet there is no magic cure for all of the problems that
cure for all of the problems that
cure for all of the problems that society has which as you might have
society has which as you might have
society has which as you might have noticed it has quite a lot so there is
noticed it has quite a lot so there is
noticed it has quite a lot so there is no perfect answer to this but secularism
no perfect answer to this but secularism
no perfect answer to this but secularism at least allows us to approach this
at least allows us to approach this
at least allows us to approach this problem in a way that is slightly
problem in a way that is slightly
problem in a way that is slightly different from this binary choice
different from this binary choice
different from this binary choice between religion is all bad and religion
between religion is all bad and religion
between religion is all bad and religion is all good and I might suggest that if
is all good and I might suggest that if
is all good and I might suggest that if we do want to live together peacefully
we do want to live together peacefully
we do want to live together peacefully as a species then having a political
as a species then having a political
as a species then having a political framework that upholds and respects the
framework that upholds and respects the
framework that upholds and respects the equal rights of all citizens equally
equal rights of all citizens equally
equal rights of all citizens equally before the law regardless of what they
before the law regardless of what they
before the law regardless of what they believe might be a pretty good place to
believe might be a pretty good place to
believe might be a pretty good place to start
start
start and that’s ladies and gentlemen is all I
and that’s ladies and gentlemen is all I
and that’s ladies and gentlemen is all I really wanted to say tonight so thank
really wanted to say tonight so thank
really wanted to say tonight so thank you very much for coming thank you for
you very much for coming thank you for
you very much for coming thank you for listening and enjoy the rest of your
listening and enjoy the rest of your
listening and enjoy the rest of your evening
”
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