nine years that’s what it’s taken the two wires to be acquitted last week it
two wires to be acquitted last week it
two wires to be acquitted last week it took seven years in the lower courts in
took seven years in the lower courts in
took seven years in the lower courts in Ghaziabad and it took another two years
Ghaziabad and it took another two years
Ghaziabad and it took another two years in the Allahabad High Court and let me
in the Allahabad High Court and let me
in the Allahabad High Court and let me tell you they were extremely lucky
tell you they were extremely lucky
tell you they were extremely lucky because the average time a case takes in
because the average time a case takes in
because the average time a case takes in India in the lower courts is nine years
India in the lower courts is nine years
India in the lower courts is nine years the average case it takes in the
the average case it takes in the
the average case it takes in the Allahabad High Court is nearly seven
Allahabad High Court is nearly seven
Allahabad High Court is nearly seven years so they could have been in jail
years so they could have been in jail
years so they could have been in jail actually they could have been under
actually they could have been under
actually they could have been under trials for sixteen years instead of nine
trials for sixteen years instead of nine
trials for sixteen years instead of nine that makes you worry you know the first
that makes you worry you know the first
that makes you worry you know the first thing the Constitution guarantees us is
thing the Constitution guarantees us is
thing the Constitution guarantees us is justice that’s the first thing the
justice that’s the first thing the
justice that’s the first thing the preamble says and here we are with the
preamble says and here we are with the
preamble says and here we are with the problem that’s not new it’s a problem
problem that’s not new it’s a problem
problem that’s not new it’s a problem that’s been around for thirty five years
that’s been around for thirty five years
that’s been around for thirty five years you know in 1984 there was a movie made
you know in 1984 there was a movie made
you know in 1984 there was a movie made about delay in courts but unfortunately
about delay in courts but unfortunately
about delay in courts but unfortunately the market for justice has moved on if I
the market for justice has moved on if I
the market for justice has moved on if I can say that the market of justice in
can say that the market of justice in
can say that the market of justice in India has moved to lots of other places
India has moved to lots of other places
India has moved to lots of other places religious heads meet out justice there’s
religious heads meet out justice there’s
religious heads meet out justice there’s a Municipal Council in Mumbai who meets
a Municipal Council in Mumbai who meets
a Municipal Council in Mumbai who meets our justice who runs like a shaka with
our justice who runs like a shaka with
our justice who runs like a shaka with the court and of course there are the
the court and of course there are the
the court and of course there are the cops earlier this year we did a survey
cops earlier this year we did a survey
cops earlier this year we did a survey of about 50,000 people fifty thousand
of about 50,000 people fifty thousand
of about 50,000 people fifty thousand households all over the country and we
households all over the country and we
households all over the country and we asked them how they access justice
asked them how they access justice
asked them how they access justice everybody knows this delay so people use
everybody knows this delay so people use
everybody knows this delay so people use various mechanisms one of the things we
various mechanisms one of the things we
various mechanisms one of the things we actually videotaped was a cop in Haryana
actually videotaped was a cop in Haryana
actually videotaped was a cop in Haryana there’s a very interesting case in that
there’s a very interesting case in that
there’s a very interesting case in that part of the world there’s a custom that
part of the world there’s a custom that
part of the world there’s a custom that if a man dies an untimely death his wife
if a man dies an untimely death his wife
if a man dies an untimely death his wife is expected to marry his brother and in
is expected to marry his brother and in
is expected to marry his brother and in this particular case the lady had come
this particular case the lady had come
this particular case the lady had come forward to the cop and said I’m not
forward to the cop and said I’m not
forward to the cop and said I’m not willing to do that so a cop went through
willing to do that so a cop went through
willing to do that so a cop went through some deliberations for five years of
some deliberations for five years of
some deliberations for five years of conversation hours of conversation I’m
conversation hours of conversation I’m
conversation hours of conversation I’m sorry I’m using the judicial system
sorry I’m using the judicial system
sorry I’m using the judicial system right for five hours of conversation and
right for five hours of conversation and
right for five hours of conversation and they came back and said that’s okay if
they came back and said that’s okay if
they came back and said that’s okay if you don’t want to marry your brother no
you don’t want to marry your brother no
you don’t want to marry your brother no law that’s fine but you know what your
law that’s fine but you know what your
law that’s fine but you know what your two children who are young and need to
two children who are young and need to
two children who are young and need to be educated they will still be the
be educated they will still be the
be educated they will still be the responsibility of your brother-in-law
responsibility of your brother-in-law
responsibility of your brother-in-law which is a pretty premature thing if you
which is a pretty premature thing if you
which is a pretty premature thing if you think about it but you know I am a
think about it but you know I am a
think about it but you know I am a techie I am not so much interested in
techie I am not so much interested in
techie I am not so much interested in the quality of justice there are lots of
the quality of justice there are lots of
the quality of justice there are lots of people worrying about that as the
people worrying about that as the
people worrying about that as the quantity of justice and we went back and
quantity of justice and we went back and
quantity of justice and we went back and looked at this particular issue we
looked at this particular issue we
looked at this particular issue we started looking at this for three years
started looking at this for three years
started looking at this for three years ago and we started collecting data about
ago and we started collecting data about
ago and we started collecting data about how the judicial system works in India
how the judicial system works in India
how the judicial system works in India we started looking at the high courts
we started looking at the high courts
we started looking at the high courts you know if if you don’t know there are
you know if if you don’t know there are
you know if if you don’t know there are three levels of courts in India there is
three levels of courts in India there is
three levels of courts in India there is a supreme Supreme Court which is the
a supreme Supreme Court which is the
a supreme Supreme Court which is the ultimate arbiter there are twenty-four
ultimate arbiter there are twenty-four
ultimate arbiter there are twenty-four High Courts which to look after
High Courts which to look after
High Courts which to look after issues at a state level in multiple
issues at a state level in multiple
issues at a state level in multiple states and there are about 21,000 lower
states and there are about 21,000 lower
states and there are about 21,000 lower courts at the district and the lower
courts at the district and the lower
courts at the district and the lower levels
levels
levels so we started talking data from all the
so we started talking data from all the
so we started talking data from all the high courts we started putting together
high courts we started putting together
high courts we started putting together this data into a single large database
this data into a single large database
this data into a single large database that we could analyze and we want to
that we could analyze and we want to
that we could analyze and we want to come up with some patterns that Reichel
come up with some patterns that Reichel
come up with some patterns that Reichel either justify or append some of the
either justify or append some of the
either justify or append some of the ideas of solution there have been lots
ideas of solution there have been lots
ideas of solution there have been lots of ideas of solution over the last years
of ideas of solution over the last years
of ideas of solution over the last years and along the way we discover the
and along the way we discover the
and along the way we discover the government has this phenomenal project
government has this phenomenal project
government has this phenomenal project called the e court system which every
called the e court system which every
called the e court system which every day brings up details of every single
day brings up details of every single
day brings up details of every single hearing in this country I mean imagine
hearing in this country I mean imagine
hearing in this country I mean imagine 752 752
hey let’s just double the number of
hey let’s just double the number of judges
judges
judges really you guys all are looking to get
really you guys all are looking to get
really you guys all are looking to get into tech are in tech you can’t find 100
into tech are in tech you can’t find 100
into tech are in tech you can’t find 100 software engineers in this country in
software engineers in this country in
software engineers in this country in time can you find 21,000 new judges but
time can you find 21,000 new judges but
time can you find 21,000 new judges but let’s leave that issue out aside just
let’s leave that issue out aside just
let’s leave that issue out aside just look at the numbers in India we file
look at the numbers in India we file
look at the numbers in India we file between 10 and 12 million new cases
between 10 and 12 million new cases
between 10 and 12 million new cases every year nearly a million cases every
every year nearly a million cases every
every year nearly a million cases every month and we resolve actually over the
month and we resolve actually over the
month and we resolve actually over the last couple of years this system has
last couple of years this system has
last couple of years this system has moved significantly faster we resolve
moved significantly faster we resolve
moved significantly faster we resolve nearly 15 million cases but over the
nearly 15 million cases but over the
nearly 15 million cases but over the last 25 years we have created this
last 25 years we have created this
last 25 years we have created this backlog of 25 million cases so on
backlog of 25 million cases so on
backlog of 25 million cases so on average it will take us another 12 to 15
average it will take us another 12 to 15
average it will take us another 12 to 15 years to resolve the backlog on the
years to resolve the backlog on the
years to resolve the backlog on the other hand in the United States ok
other hand in the United States ok
other hand in the United States ok I know the United States is a different
I know the United States is a different
I know the United States is a different country they don’t light a lamp on the
country they don’t light a lamp on the
country they don’t light a lamp on the stage and kick off the shoes before they
stage and kick off the shoes before they
stage and kick off the shoes before they come on stage yes I know we’re different
come on stage yes I know we’re different
come on stage yes I know we’re different culture but numbers are numbers right
culture but numbers are numbers right
culture but numbers are numbers right the United States sees ninety to a
the United States sees ninety to a
the United States sees ninety to a hundred million cases every year with
hundred million cases every year with
hundred million cases every year with 37,000 judges less than twice the number
37,000 judges less than twice the number
37,000 judges less than twice the number we have and nearly ten times the number
we have and nearly ten times the number
we have and nearly ten times the number of cases
of cases
of cases there must be something we’re doing
there must be something we’re doing
there must be something we’re doing wrong but you know some of you might
wrong but you know some of you might
wrong but you know some of you might think why does that matter like I said
think why does that matter like I said
think why does that matter like I said earlier the market has moved there are
earlier the market has moved there are
earlier the market has moved there are other ways of resolving justice why do
other ways of resolving justice why do
other ways of resolving justice why do we need to fix the system right well
we need to fix the system right well
we need to fix the system right well let’s look at this cup that I was
let’s look at this cup that I was
let’s look at this cup that I was talking about I have one question
talking about I have one question
talking about I have one question where’s the widow where is the woman who
where’s the widow where is the woman who
where’s the widow where is the woman who raised the issue by cop rules
raised the issue by cop rules
raised the issue by cop rules she cannot attend the panchayat by cop
she cannot attend the panchayat by cop
she cannot attend the panchayat by cop rules the person whose life you’re
rules the person whose life you’re
rules the person whose life you’re deciding on can’t be in the process and
deciding on can’t be in the process and
deciding on can’t be in the process and look at what she was fighting look at
look at what she was fighting look at
look at what she was fighting look at the custom itself how did this custom
the custom itself how did this custom
the custom itself how did this custom come
come
come this is part of the justice system that
this is part of the justice system that
this is part of the justice system that they’re going to how did this custom
they’re going to how did this custom
they’re going to how did this custom come about the custom is very simple
come about the custom is very simple
come about the custom is very simple it’s about land when the man dies if his
it’s about land when the man dies if his
it’s about land when the man dies if his wife marries his brother the land stays
wife marries his brother the land stays
wife marries his brother the land stays in the family simple problem solved if
in the family simple problem solved if
in the family simple problem solved if she had gone to the judicial system
she had gone to the judicial system
she had gone to the judicial system there will be no question the assets are
there will be no question the assets are
there will be no question the assets are hers
hers
hers the children are hers she’s got a deal
the children are hers she’s got a deal
the children are hers she’s got a deal with them that’s the big difference you
with them that’s the big difference you
with them that’s the big difference you know the reality is the judicial system
know the reality is the judicial system
know the reality is the judicial system is absolutely the only thing that is
is absolutely the only thing that is
is absolutely the only thing that is fighting for our rights there is no
fighting for our rights there is no
fighting for our rights there is no other institution nobody has accused
other institution nobody has accused
other institution nobody has accused legislature of fighting for rights let’s
legislature of fighting for rights let’s
legislature of fighting for rights let’s face it right not the administrative not
face it right not the administrative not
face it right not the administrative not the legislature the judicial system is
the legislature the judicial system is
the legislature the judicial system is what fights for a right your your and my
what fights for a right your your and my
what fights for a right your your and my rights and without bias and with
rights and without bias and with
rights and without bias and with complete fairness you don’t go out and
complete fairness you don’t go out and
complete fairness you don’t go out and say oh to people from different cars
say oh to people from different cars
say oh to people from different cars want to get married go hang them from
want to get married go hang them from
want to get married go hang them from the other street that’s not justice
the other street that’s not justice
the other street that’s not justice that’s what the judicial system does for
that’s what the judicial system does for
that’s what the judicial system does for us so we’ve got to fix this so to fix it
us so we’ve got to fix this so to fix it
us so we’ve got to fix this so to fix it we went and looked at this data we said
we went and looked at this data we said
we went and looked at this data we said okay let’s try and solve the problem at
okay let’s try and solve the problem at
okay let’s try and solve the problem at a very simple level let’s not take huge
a very simple level let’s not take huge
a very simple level let’s not take huge weights of cut-side this so let’s look
weights of cut-side this so let’s look
weights of cut-side this so let’s look at one simple set of Statistics in a
at one simple set of Statistics in a
at one simple set of Statistics in a typical courthouse on a daily basis
typical courthouse on a daily basis
typical courthouse on a daily basis there are 70 to 80 hearings that is 20
there are 70 to 80 hearings that is 20
there are 70 to 80 hearings that is 20 70 to 80 cases that come up in front of
70 to 80 cases that come up in front of
70 to 80 cases that come up in front of the judge let me give you a sense for
the judge let me give you a sense for
the judge let me give you a sense for that number
that number
that number an average Bank support executive
an average Bank support executive
an average Bank support executive handles 80 calls a day have you ever
handles 80 calls a day have you ever
handles 80 calls a day have you ever thought the bank support executive has
thought the bank support executive has
thought the bank support executive has given enough attention to your problem
given enough attention to your problem
given enough attention to your problem so what’s the judge to do it’s very
so what’s the judge to do it’s very
so what’s the judge to do it’s very simple first of all of the 70 or 80
simple first of all of the 70 or 80
simple first of all of the 70 or 80 cases fully 30 of them aren’t even reach
cases fully 30 of them aren’t even reach
cases fully 30 of them aren’t even reach there’s this word that lawyers will tell
there’s this word that lawyers will tell
there’s this word that lawyers will tell you it’s not reached because you’re
you it’s not reached because you’re
you it’s not reached because you’re item number 56 on the agenda there is no
item number 56 on the agenda there is no
item number 56 on the agenda there is no way the judge has the time to come and
way the judge has the time to come and
way the judge has the time to come and talk to you so that’s gone of the rest
talk to you so that’s gone of the rest
talk to you so that’s gone of the rest about 35% we did the time and motion
about 35% we did the time and motion
about 35% we did the time and motion study in multiple courts in this country
study in multiple courts in this country
study in multiple courts in this country and we found about 35 percent of the
and we found about 35 percent of the
and we found about 35 percent of the cases that actually are reached are
cases that actually are reached are
cases that actually are reached are pushed aside because of administrative
pushed aside because of administrative
pushed aside because of administrative issues paperwork has not been filed
issues paperwork has not been filed
issues paperwork has not been filed warrants have not been delivered all
warrants have not been delivered all
warrants have not been delivered all these issues which the judge has to deal
these issues which the judge has to deal
these issues which the judge has to deal with and so finally the judge actually
with and so finally the judge actually
with and so finally the judge actually hears 25 to 30 cases every single day so
hears 25 to 30 cases every single day so
hears 25 to 30 cases every single day so he said we gotta fix this but where to
he said we gotta fix this but where to
he said we gotta fix this but where to fix this with two major carry-outs
fix this with two major carry-outs
fix this with two major carry-outs number one we are not going to ask for
number one we are not going to ask for
number one we are not going to ask for legislative changes not just because it
legislative changes not just because it
legislative changes not just because it can’t be done I mean that will take
can’t be done I mean that will take
can’t be done I mean that will take years but because we have to implement
years but because we have to implement
years but because we have to implement something in the short-term that is
something in the short-term that is
something in the short-term that is easily accessible so that’s the more one
easily accessible so that’s the more one
easily accessible so that’s the more one and number two will try and not change
and number two will try and not change
and number two will try and not change the last mile courts have pathetic
the last mile courts have pathetic
the last mile courts have pathetic infrastructure some of them don’t have
infrastructure some of them don’t have
infrastructure some of them don’t have bathrooms some of them don’t have roofs
bathrooms some of them don’t have roofs
bathrooms some of them don’t have roofs I am I would love to go to them and say
I am I would love to go to them and say
I am I would love to go to them and say I’ll give every judge an iPad it ain’t
I’ll give every judge an iPad it ain’t
I’ll give every judge an iPad it ain’t gonna work
gonna work
gonna work so let’s find something that’s fit
so let’s find something that’s fit
so let’s find something that’s fit within those frameworks so based on that
within those frameworks so based on that
within those frameworks so based on that we came up with some suggestions we have
we came up with some suggestions we have
we came up with some suggestions we have actually submitted this to multiple
actually submitted this to multiple
actually submitted this to multiple courts and we are starting a process to
courts and we are starting a process to
courts and we are starting a process to make some implementations number one
make some implementations number one
make some implementations number one autosuggest dates now particularly in
autosuggest dates now particularly in
autosuggest dates now particularly in Bangalore you guys will all be seriously
Bangalore you guys will all be seriously
Bangalore you guys will all be seriously into technology you know what
into technology you know what
into technology you know what calendaring and so on and so forth is
calendaring and so on and so forth is
calendaring and so on and so forth is but you should watch the process in a
but you should watch the process in a
but you should watch the process in a lower court the judge will stand you
lower court the judge will stand you
lower court the judge will stand you know sit down go through his processes
know sit down go through his processes
know sit down go through his processes for the day call up a hearing whatever
for the day call up a hearing whatever
for the day call up a hearing whatever issues with that hearing solved and he
issues with that hearing solved and he
issues with that hearing solved and he calls for the next date for that
calls for the next date for that
calls for the next date for that particular case and he’ll say okay today
particular case and he’ll say okay today
particular case and he’ll say okay today is the 16th of October let’s meet on the
is the 16th of October let’s meet on the
is the 16th of October let’s meet on the you know 23rd of November so the
you know 23rd of November so the
you know 23rd of November so the prosecuting attorney will stand up and
prosecuting attorney will stand up and
prosecuting attorney will stand up and say well you know what 23rd of November
say well you know what 23rd of November
say well you know what 23rd of November what works for me because my wife’s
what works for me because my wife’s
what works for me because my wife’s brother’s father-in-law sister’s mother
brother’s father-in-law sister’s mother
brother’s father-in-law sister’s mother is getting married or some such thing so
is getting married or some such thing so
is getting married or some such thing so I can’t do that so let’s make it a third
I can’t do that so let’s make it a third
I can’t do that so let’s make it a third of December and the opposing attorney
of December and the opposing attorney
of December and the opposing attorney would say huh third of December no no no
would say huh third of December no no no
would say huh third of December no no no there’s some other problem I had to go
there’s some other problem I had to go
there’s some other problem I had to go to my village for a wedding whatever
to my village for a wedding whatever
to my village for a wedding whatever yeah they are air it’s not gonna happen
yeah they are air it’s not gonna happen
yeah they are air it’s not gonna happen so the judge is going to stand up listen
so the judge is going to stand up listen
so the judge is going to stand up listen I’m going to take this let’s just pick a
I’m going to take this let’s just pick a
I’m going to take this let’s just pick a number I’m going to pick a number 6th of
number I’m going to pick a number 6th of
number I’m going to pick a number 6th of December done move on the pity is the
December done move on the pity is the
December done move on the pity is the judge has no idea what he’s got going on
judge has no idea what he’s got going on
judge has no idea what he’s got going on the 6th of December because there’s no
the 6th of December because there’s no
the 6th of December because there’s no calendaring there is a register that
calendaring there is a register that
calendaring there is a register that somebody maintains in relevant but that
somebody maintains in relevant but that
somebody maintains in relevant but that level of detail is not maintained so on
level of detail is not maintained so on
level of detail is not maintained so on the 6th of December guess what you have
the 6th of December guess what you have
the 6th of December guess what you have another 80 cases just the way it is so
another 80 cases just the way it is so
another 80 cases just the way it is so if we can write software for cars that
if we can write software for cars that
if we can write software for cars that can drive themselves we can write this
can drive themselves we can write this
can drive themselves we can write this software so we’re saying let’s auto
software so we’re saying let’s auto
software so we’re saying let’s auto assign dates number one number two we
assign dates number one number two we
assign dates number one number two we know the judge just know everybody knows
know the judge just know everybody knows
know the judge just know everybody knows that there’s a whole lot of time spent
that there’s a whole lot of time spent
that there’s a whole lot of time spent on these administrative issues so let’s
on these administrative issues so let’s
on these administrative issues so let’s get people like retired judges let’s get
get people like retired judges let’s get
get people like retired judges let’s get them to do what we call non judicial
them to do what we call non judicial
them to do what we call non judicial tasks let them deal with the
tasks let them deal with the
tasks let them deal with the administrative tasks and number three
administrative tasks and number three
administrative tasks and number three and this is kind of important in terms
and this is kind of important in terms
and this is kind of important in terms of behavior change
of behavior change
of behavior change let’s incentivize good behavior we
let’s incentivize good behavior we
let’s incentivize good behavior we typically penalize bad behavior that’s
typically penalize bad behavior that’s
typically penalize bad behavior that’s the government model and we are saying
the government model and we are saying
the government model and we are saying let’s go out and incentivize good
let’s go out and incentivize good
let’s go out and incentivize good behavior
behavior
behavior send out an SMS saying hey you’re
send out an SMS saying hey you’re
send out an SMS saying hey you’re hearing on Monday if you don’t appear
hearing on Monday if you don’t appear
hearing on Monday if you don’t appear there it’s going to be 23rd and remember
there it’s going to be 23rd and remember
there it’s going to be 23rd and remember whatever you know that kind of stuff
whatever you know that kind of stuff
whatever you know that kind of stuff gives both litigants and lawyers a sense
gives both litigants and lawyers a sense
gives both litigants and lawyers a sense that they must do what they’re expected
that they must do what they’re expected
that they must do what they’re expected to do I believe that if we do this and a
to do I believe that if we do this and a
to do I believe that if we do this and a few other things we can actually read in
few other things we can actually read in
few other things we can actually read in whole holy NL full measure like someone
whole holy NL full measure like someone
whole holy NL full measure like someone said our promise of justice liberty and
said our promise of justice liberty and
said our promise of justice liberty and equality thank you
”
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