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Chaos in the Heart of Africa | Nat Geo Live


this isn’t a religious war it’s a war

this isn’t a religious war it’s a war whose roots are based in poverty

whose roots are based in poverty

whose roots are based in poverty corruption Central African Republic for

corruption Central African Republic for

corruption Central African Republic for a time went psychotic you know here we

a time went psychotic you know here we

a time went psychotic you know here we have a country that has 4.5 million

have a country that has 4.5 million

have a country that has 4.5 million people it’s a little bit smaller than

people it’s a little bit smaller than

people it’s a little bit smaller than the state of Texas you know it’s 85%

the state of Texas you know it’s 85%

the state of Texas you know it’s 85% Christian or traditional animist beliefs

Christian or traditional animist beliefs

Christian or traditional animist beliefs and 15% identify as Muslim but here’s

and 15% identify as Muslim but here’s

and 15% identify as Muslim but here’s how the people in the Central African

how the people in the Central African

how the people in the Central African Republic

Republic

Republic identify themselves I’m going to refer

identify themselves I’m going to refer

identify themselves I’m going to refer to Central African Republic by the

to Central African Republic by the

to Central African Republic by the shorthand that we sort of all default to

shorthand that we sort of all default to

shorthand that we sort of all default to car so if you’re confused that’s that’s

car so if you’re confused that’s that’s

car so if you’re confused that’s that’s what I’m talking about

what I’m talking about

what I’m talking about this is a map from a high school

this is a map from a high school

this is a map from a high school geography book and it shows the ethnic

geography book and it shows the ethnic

geography book and it shows the ethnic groups and their more than 50 ethnic

groups and their more than 50 ethnic

groups and their more than 50 ethnic groups and subgroups it’s also a nation

groups and subgroups it’s also a nation

groups and subgroups it’s also a nation filled with treasure literally fairly

filled with treasure literally fairly

filled with treasure literally fairly famous for its diamonds

famous for its diamonds

famous for its diamonds one of the biggest diamonds ever found

one of the biggest diamonds ever found

one of the biggest diamonds ever found almost four hundred carats was found in

almost four hundred carats was found in

almost four hundred carats was found in the ciear it also has gold mines both of

the ciear it also has gold mines both of

the ciear it also has gold mines both of these resources are mind using artisanal

these resources are mind using artisanal

these resources are mind using artisanal methods that means it’s not an

methods that means it’s not an

methods that means it’s not an industrial scale thing it’s all like

industrial scale thing it’s all like

industrial scale thing it’s all like open-pit mine thinking like that in

open-pit mine thinking like that in

open-pit mine thinking like that in recent years

recent years

recent years petroleum has been found up near the

petroleum has been found up near the

petroleum has been found up near the Chad border and there’s also deposits of

Chad border and there’s also deposits of

Chad border and there’s also deposits of uranium Frances first atomic weapon came

uranium Frances first atomic weapon came

uranium Frances first atomic weapon came from uranium that was mined in the CER

from uranium that was mined in the CER

from uranium that was mined in the CER it also has huge reserves of timber game

it also has huge reserves of timber game

it also has huge reserves of timber game animals but also the potential for

animals but also the potential for

animals but also the potential for hydropower so what went wrong what

hydropower so what went wrong what

hydropower so what went wrong what happens usually this is the equation for

happens usually this is the equation for

happens usually this is the equation for for Prosperity right you have a fairly

for Prosperity right you have a fairly

for Prosperity right you have a fairly good-sized country with a relatively

good-sized country with a relatively

good-sized country with a relatively small population and all these resources

small population and all these resources

small population and all these resources so you know why are we where we are

so you know why are we where we are

so you know why are we where we are today and a lot of the answer has to lie

today and a lot of the answer has to lie

today and a lot of the answer has to lie at the feet of these men these are the

at the feet of these men these are the

at the feet of these men these are the six leaders of the Central African

six leaders of the Central African

six leaders of the Central African public since independence this is a

public since independence this is a

public since independence this is a monument in bangy it was erected in 2008

monument in bangy it was erected in 2008

monument in bangy it was erected in 2008 which is the 50th anniversary of

which is the 50th anniversary of

which is the 50th anniversary of Independence and each person on each one

Independence and each person on each one

Independence and each person on each one of these gold busts betray one of the

of these gold busts betray one of the

of these gold busts betray one of the guys up here the guy that takes the cake

guys up here the guy that takes the cake

guys up here the guy that takes the cake of the leaders in terms of driving the

of the leaders in terms of driving the

of the leaders in terms of driving the country and

country and

country and ground is the sky John Bedell vacasa he

ground is the sky John Bedell vacasa he

ground is the sky John Bedell vacasa he was the president for life and then

was the president for life and then

was the president for life and then decided that wasn’t a grand enough title

decided that wasn’t a grand enough title

decided that wasn’t a grand enough title so he decided to become the Emperor of

so he decided to become the Emperor of

so he decided to become the Emperor of the Central African Empire he was going

the Central African Empire he was going

the Central African Empire he was going to rename the whole country he styled

to rename the whole country he styled

to rename the whole country he styled himself sort of the Napoleon of Africa

himself sort of the Napoleon of Africa

himself sort of the Napoleon of Africa and in an era when we saw Muammar

and in an era when we saw Muammar

and in an era when we saw Muammar Qaddafi rise Idi Amin was in his day

Qaddafi rise Idi Amin was in his day

Qaddafi rise Idi Amin was in his day nobuta sister secular was there picasa

nobuta sister secular was there picasa

nobuta sister secular was there picasa gives the mall a run for them for their

gives the mall a run for them for their

gives the mall a run for them for their money he he actually met his nadir when

money he he actually met his nadir when

money he he actually met his nadir when he decreed that all schoolchildren had

he decreed that all schoolchildren had

he decreed that all schoolchildren had to buy their school uniforms from his

to buy their school uniforms from his

to buy their school uniforms from his from company that he owned and when they

from company that he owned and when they

from company that he owned and when they had a rebellion or when there was a

had a rebellion or when there was a

had a rebellion or when there was a protest he had a hundred of them

protest he had a hundred of them

protest he had a hundred of them arrested and many were beaten some

arrested and many were beaten some

arrested and many were beaten some killed and that was sort of the moment

killed and that was sort of the moment

killed and that was sort of the moment that he met his downfall another issue

that he met his downfall another issue

that he met his downfall another issue that’s been happening over the past ten

that’s been happening over the past ten

that’s been happening over the past ten years or so more than that but ten years

years or so more than that but ten years

years or so more than that but ten years is really the area that we focus on is

is really the area that we focus on is

is really the area that we focus on is poaching the game and specifically the

poaching the game and specifically the

poaching the game and specifically the forest elephants poachers have been

forest elephants poachers have been

forest elephants poachers have been coming in to the ca are mostly from

coming in to the ca are mostly from

coming in to the ca are mostly from Sudan in organized fashion many of these

Sudan in organized fashion many of these

Sudan in organized fashion many of these are Janjaweed

are Janjaweed

are Janjaweed in fact one man described it to me as

in fact one man described it to me as

in fact one man described it to me as it’s it’s an ivory bank account we just

it’s it’s an ivory bank account we just

it’s it’s an ivory bank account we just come when we need when we need when we

come when we need when we need when we

come when we need when we need when we need money in the past ten years I think

need money in the past ten years I think

need money in the past ten years I think the estimate fifty five hundred

the estimate fifty five hundred

the estimate fifty five hundred elephants have been killed for their

elephants have been killed for their

elephants have been killed for their ivory and that’s about sixty two percent

ivory and that’s about sixty two percent

ivory and that’s about sixty two percent of the population so only about 30

of the population so only about 30

of the population so only about 30 percent remain the Seleka are a group of

percent remain the Seleka are a group of

percent remain the Seleka are a group of militias predominantly from the north

militias predominantly from the north

militias predominantly from the north muslim based and funded by chad to come

muslim based and funded by chad to come

muslim based and funded by chad to come and fight the bows easy government they

and fight the bows easy government they

and fight the bows easy government they were opposed by the anti-balaka begun as

were opposed by the anti-balaka begun as

were opposed by the anti-balaka begun as a sort of a local neighborhood security

a sort of a local neighborhood security

a sort of a local neighborhood security force when the Seleka rose up these guys

force when the Seleka rose up these guys

force when the Seleka rose up these guys organized they realized they needed some

organized they realized they needed some

organized they realized they needed some protection once the Seleka were gone

protection once the Seleka were gone

protection once the Seleka were gone they took out reprisals on the muslim

they took out reprisals on the muslim

they took out reprisals on the muslim population they committed many of the

population they committed many of the

population they committed many of the same atrocity the Seleka had committed

same atrocity the Seleka had committed

same atrocity the Seleka had committed so that’s not the whole story though

so that’s not the whole story though

so that’s not the whole story though that’s just what’s happening in

that’s just what’s happening in

that’s just what’s happening in predominantly the east in the north of

predominantly the east in the north of

predominantly the east in the north of the country there’s another conflict

the country there’s another conflict

the country there’s another conflict that’s going on far away over here in

that’s going on far away over here in

that’s going on far away over here in the far eastern corner is a little

the far eastern corner is a little

the far eastern corner is a little village called OBO it’s a village of

village called OBO it’s a village of

village called OBO it’s a village of about sixty

about sixty

about sixty some people and in oboe we don’t have

some people and in oboe we don’t have

some people and in oboe we don’t have the Seleka we don’t have concerns about

the Seleka we don’t have concerns about

the Seleka we don’t have concerns about the anti-balaka these are both Muslim

the anti-balaka these are both Muslim

the anti-balaka these are both Muslim and Christian children playing these

and Christian children playing these

and Christian children playing these children are also under threat from

children are also under threat from

children are also under threat from another place and that is remember this

another place and that is remember this

another place and that is remember this guy Joseph Kony rose to fame a couple

guy Joseph Kony rose to fame a couple

guy Joseph Kony rose to fame a couple years ago with the Kony 2012 video that

years ago with the Kony 2012 video that

years ago with the Kony 2012 video that went viral for those of you who note on

went viral for those of you who note on

went viral for those of you who note on the story is a Ugandan warlord for the

the story is a Ugandan warlord for the

the story is a Ugandan warlord for the better part of the last two decades has

better part of the last two decades has

better part of the last two decades has been kidnapping children to fight in his

been kidnapping children to fight in his

been kidnapping children to fight in his guerrilla army and he sort of moved from

guerrilla army and he sort of moved from

guerrilla army and he sort of moved from the DRC from South Sudan to the DRC and

the DRC from South Sudan to the DRC and

the DRC from South Sudan to the DRC and now he’s found his way into the into the

now he’s found his way into the into the

now he’s found his way into the into the Central African Republic and especially

Central African Republic and especially

Central African Republic and especially given the security situation that we’ve

given the security situation that we’ve

given the security situation that we’ve been facing in in car over the past year

been facing in in car over the past year

been facing in in car over the past year or so

or so

or so he’s his forces have moved you know more

he’s his forces have moved you know more

he’s his forces have moved you know more forcefully into this area but what’s

forcefully into this area but what’s

forcefully into this area but what’s keeping the people in OBO say for the

keeping the people in OBO say for the

keeping the people in OBO say for the moment is your tax dollars this is

moment is your tax dollars this is

moment is your tax dollars this is actually a Special Forces US Special

actually a Special Forces US Special

actually a Special Forces US Special Forces Base it sits right on the corner

Forces Base it sits right on the corner

Forces Base it sits right on the corner of the village and the US has been there

of the village and the US has been there

of the village and the US has been there for three years now actually in part

for three years now actually in part

for three years now actually in part providing security but in large part

providing security but in large part

providing security but in large part training Ugandan troops and advising

training Ugandan troops and advising

training Ugandan troops and advising them on tracking Kony is where and is in

them on tracking Kony is where and is in

them on tracking Kony is where and is in his group so these are the Ugandan

his group so these are the Ugandan

his group so these are the Ugandan troops that they trained what’s

troops that they trained what’s

troops that they trained what’s different apparently about this is that

different apparently about this is that

different apparently about this is that they’re actually getting jungle

they’re actually getting jungle

they’re actually getting jungle warfighting training before they’re sent

warfighting training before they’re sent

warfighting training before they’re sent actually the track Kony and his men and

actually the track Kony and his men and

actually the track Kony and his men and when I talked to people in the villager

when I talked to people in the villager

when I talked to people in the villager that happy that these guys are here they

that happy that these guys are here they

that happy that these guys are here they said if the United States and Uganda

said if the United States and Uganda

said if the United States and Uganda wasn’t here Joseph Kony would be

wasn’t here Joseph Kony would be

wasn’t here Joseph Kony would be sleeping in OBO tonight but I understand

sleeping in OBO tonight but I understand

sleeping in OBO tonight but I understand the human nature you want to put some

the human nature you want to put some

the human nature you want to put some faces on specific faces on on these

faces on specific faces on on these

faces on specific faces on on these issues so I wanted reduce you to three

issues so I wanted reduce you to three

issues so I wanted reduce you to three people so the next time you see a random

people so the next time you see a random

people so the next time you see a random car news report a 500-word AP story

car news report a 500-word AP story

car news report a 500-word AP story perhaps you’ll think of these three

perhaps you’ll think of these three

perhaps you’ll think of these three people so this is Aramis

people so this is Aramis

people so this is Aramis he was from OBO and he was kidnapped

he was from OBO and he was kidnapped

he was from OBO and he was kidnapped when he’s 17 years old out of his

when he’s 17 years old out of his

when he’s 17 years old out of his grandfather’s house and taken by the LRA

grandfather’s house and taken by the LRA

grandfather’s house and taken by the LRA into the jungle but spent five years as

into the jungle but spent five years as

into the jungle but spent five years as a guerrilla fighter he had horrible

a guerrilla fighter he had horrible

a guerrilla fighter he had horrible things done to him and he did horrible

things done to him and he did horrible

things done to him and he did horrible things but he escaped about a year ago

things but he escaped about a year ago

things but he escaped about a year ago and now he works with the US and the

and now he works with the US and the

and now he works with the US and the Ugandan to broadcast radio messages into

Ugandan to broadcast radio messages into

Ugandan to broadcast radio messages into the jungle and basically they’re trying

the jungle and basically they’re trying

the jungle and basically they’re trying to encourage the fighters to give give

to encourage the fighters to give give

to encourage the fighters to give give themselves up just just like Aramis did

themselves up just just like Aramis did

themselves up just just like Aramis did and that’s been a pretty successful

and that’s been a pretty successful

and that’s been a pretty successful strategy but so once a week Aramis goes

strategy but so once a week Aramis goes

strategy but so once a week Aramis goes into the radio station and basically

into the radio station and basically

into the radio station and basically talks to his former comrades and I sat

talks to his former comrades and I sat

talks to his former comrades and I sat in on one of his sessions and you know

in on one of his sessions and you know

in on one of his sessions and you know he calls them by name and he tells them

he calls them by name and he tells them

he calls them by name and he tells them you know you you know your family wants

you know you you know your family wants

you know you you know your family wants you home there’s amnesty for anybody the

you home there’s amnesty for anybody the

you home there’s amnesty for anybody the only guys that are really basically

only guys that are really basically

only guys that are really basically going after these days are Kony and and

going after these days are Kony and and

going after these days are Kony and and the other leaders another guy that I’d

the other leaders another guy that I’d

the other leaders another guy that I’d like you to meet is Albert so Albert I

like you to meet is Albert so Albert I

like you to meet is Albert so Albert I met on a trip this summer to bangy in

met on a trip this summer to bangy in

met on a trip this summer to bangy in the I barely had gotten you know into

the I barely had gotten you know into

the I barely had gotten you know into the city and he was knocking on my door

the city and he was knocking on my door

the city and he was knocking on my door wanting to sell me something you know

wanting to sell me something you know

wanting to sell me something you know and kept saying you know I want you to

and kept saying you know I want you to

and kept saying you know I want you to buy these pictures I got these great

buy these pictures I got these great

buy these pictures I got these great pictures you know I was looking the

pictures you know I was looking the

pictures you know I was looking the pictures like picture of a chicken you

pictures like picture of a chicken you

pictures like picture of a chicken you know my man do I really want a chicken

know my man do I really want a chicken

know my man do I really want a chicken picture and you know I’m sitting at this

picture and you know I’m sitting at this

picture and you know I’m sitting at this thing and then I realized it’s made out

thing and then I realized it’s made out

thing and then I realized it’s made out of butterfly wings and I just blown away

of butterfly wings and I just blown away

of butterfly wings and I just blown away so he took me back to his workshop and

so he took me back to his workshop and

so he took me back to his workshop and he showed me I does he collects these

he showed me I does he collects these

he showed me I does he collects these butterflies meticulously and makes these

butterflies meticulously and makes these

butterflies meticulously and makes these stained-glass images of life in the

stained-glass images of life in the

stained-glass images of life in the Central African Republic boy climbing a

Central African Republic boy climbing a

Central African Republic boy climbing a tree and this picture has special

tree and this picture has special

tree and this picture has special significance because it’s his sister and

significance because it’s his sister and

significance because it’s his sister and she was killed by the Seleka earlier

she was killed by the Seleka earlier

she was killed by the Seleka earlier this spring lastly I want to introduce

this spring lastly I want to introduce

this spring lastly I want to introduce you to the National Ballet of the

you to the National Ballet of the

you to the National Ballet of the Central African Republic they perform

Central African Republic they perform

Central African Republic they perform ethnic dances so there’s dancers from

ethnic dances so there’s dancers from

ethnic dances so there’s dancers from all those ethnic communities that show

all those ethnic communities that show

all those ethnic communities that show you showed you they’re missing 14 of

you showed you they’re missing 14 of

you showed you they’re missing 14 of their members since the violence and

their members since the violence and

their members since the violence and their rehearsal space who

their rehearsal space who

their rehearsal space who completely destroyed so they perform

completely destroyed so they perform

completely destroyed so they perform they perform in a vacant lot in downtown

they perform in a vacant lot in downtown

they perform in a vacant lot in downtown bangy and I happen and people just come

bangy and I happen and people just come

bangy and I happen and people just come and watch it’s like free performances

and watch it’s like free performances

and watch it’s like free performances and I happen to come by one day when

and I happen to come by one day when

and I happen to come by one day when they were performing this piece which is

they were performing this piece which is

they were performing this piece which is actually a pygmy dance and it tells the

actually a pygmy dance and it tells the

actually a pygmy dance and it tells the story of two women who were rivals for

story of two women who were rivals for

story of two women who were rivals for the affections of a man and one of the

the affections of a man and one of the

the affections of a man and one of the women poisons her rival and so an old

women poisons her rival and so an old

women poisons her rival and so an old healer is brought in to raise this woman

healer is brought in to raise this woman

healer is brought in to raise this woman from the dead and this is the scene that

from the dead and this is the scene that

from the dead and this is the scene that you’re gonna see so now I’m gonna pass

you’re gonna see so now I’m gonna pass

you’re gonna see so now I’m gonna pass it over to Marcus

thanks Peter for that I think it’s

thanks Peter for that I think it’s really important to highlight very early

really important to highlight very early

really important to highlight very early on in this evening that this isn’t a

on in this evening that this isn’t a

on in this evening that this isn’t a religious war it’s a war whose roots are

religious war it’s a war whose roots are

religious war it’s a war whose roots are our base fundamentally in poverty

our base fundamentally in poverty

our base fundamentally in poverty it’s based in corruption it’s based in

it’s based in corruption it’s based in

it’s based in corruption it’s based in mismanagement bad leadership many of

mismanagement bad leadership many of

mismanagement bad leadership many of which you know the leaders we were

which you know the leaders we were

which you know the leaders we were introduced to through Peter tonight and

introduced to through Peter tonight and

introduced to through Peter tonight and and religion has been used by the

and religion has been used by the

and religion has been used by the perpetrators to to draw lines to draw

perpetrators to to draw lines to draw

perpetrators to to draw lines to draw allegiances and to to to try to create

allegiances and to to to try to create

allegiances and to to to try to create power so I think we should try to rise

power so I think we should try to rise

power so I think we should try to rise above that this evening and try to think

above that this evening and try to think

above that this evening and try to think in a much more complex way about what is

in a much more complex way about what is

in a much more complex way about what is driving this conflict what what I’d like

driving this conflict what what I’d like

driving this conflict what what I’d like to do is is to introduce you to the

to do is is to introduce you to the

to do is is to introduce you to the chronology of the conflict

chronology of the conflict

chronology of the conflict it started as we were introduced earlier

it started as we were introduced earlier

it started as we were introduced earlier on that the celica were funded by Judas

on that the celica were funded by Judas

on that the celica were funded by Judas Debbie Chad to come in and destabilize

Debbie Chad to come in and destabilize

Debbie Chad to come in and destabilize the Central African Republic maybe take

the Central African Republic maybe take

the Central African Republic maybe take resources send those back to Chad but

resources send those back to Chad but

resources send those back to Chad but also destabilize the Central African

also destabilize the Central African

also destabilize the Central African Republic and for that for the benefit of

Republic and for that for the benefit of

Republic and for that for the benefit of its neighbors and so this Celica group

its neighbors and so this Celica group

its neighbors and so this Celica group that was that came into the country and

that was that came into the country and

that was that came into the country and attacked the then government took power

attacked the then government took power

attacked the then government took power from the government and and then started

from the government and and then started

from the government and and then started to run over the population in a very

to run over the population in a very

to run over the population in a very authoritarian way and the people who

authoritarian way and the people who

authoritarian way and the people who suffered most under that very early

suffered most under that very early

suffered most under that very early Celica rule were the Christians they

Celica rule were the Christians they

Celica rule were the Christians they were the ones that were forced out of

were the ones that were forced out of

were the ones that were forced out of their homes because they were persecuted

their homes because they were persecuted

their homes because they were persecuted by the rebels that were working in

by the rebels that were working in

by the rebels that were working in different zones and and many of these

different zones and and many of these

different zones and and many of these Celicas had gone Canha a wall they were

Celicas had gone Canha a wall they were

Celicas had gone Canha a wall they were funded to an extent by external powers

funded to an extent by external powers

funded to an extent by external powers they were funded to an extent by their

they were funded to an extent by their

they were funded to an extent by their leaders but they were also working for

leaders but they were also working for

leaders but they were also working for themselves they were also trying to fund

themselves they were also trying to fund

themselves they were also trying to fund their own lives and their own their own

their own lives and their own their own

their own lives and their own their own personal wealth gathering through

personal wealth gathering through

personal wealth gathering through looting through killing through amassing

looting through killing through amassing

looting through killing through amassing wealth through through stealing property

wealth through through stealing property

wealth through through stealing property and

and

and and that insecurity of these celica

and that insecurity of these celica

and that insecurity of these celica coming into the regions where

coming into the regions where

coming into the regions where predominantly Christian populations were

predominantly Christian populations were

predominantly Christian populations were living led the Christian population to

living led the Christian population to

living led the Christian population to flee into the bush so I’d like you to

flee into the bush so I’d like you to

flee into the bush so I’d like you to try to kind of put yourself into that

try to kind of put yourself into that

try to kind of put yourself into that context so when I show you the next

context so when I show you the next

context so when I show you the next series of images because essentially

series of images because essentially

series of images because essentially these the next series of images I’m

these the next series of images I’m

these the next series of images I’m going to try and put you into that early

going to try and put you into that early

going to try and put you into that early stages as the celica is ruling and the

stages as the celica is ruling and the

stages as the celica is ruling and the Christian population has been persecuted

Christian population has been persecuted

Christian population has been persecuted and are fleeing this is an image in a

and are fleeing this is an image in a

and are fleeing this is an image in a compound in a town called Boston go it’s

compound in a town called Boston go it’s

compound in a town called Boston go it’s taken in December 2013 and this is a

taken in December 2013 and this is a

taken in December 2013 and this is a mother trying to protect her child from

mother trying to protect her child from

mother trying to protect her child from the gunfire and the RPGs that are flying

the gunfire and the RPGs that are flying

the gunfire and the RPGs that are flying all around this compound as the Muslim

all around this compound as the Muslim

all around this compound as the Muslim celica are coming in to attack the town

celica are coming in to attack the town

celica are coming in to attack the town of bossangoa where there are about

of bossangoa where there are about

of bossangoa where there are about 10,000 Muslim refugees staying in the

10,000 Muslim refugees staying in the

10,000 Muslim refugees staying in the local school and about 30,000 Christian

local school and about 30,000 Christian

local school and about 30,000 Christian displaced staying in the church this is

displaced staying in the church this is

displaced staying in the church this is a young girl who was injured in the

a young girl who was injured in the

a young girl who was injured in the fighting as she tried to flee to the for

fighting as she tried to flee to the for

fighting as she tried to flee to the for Mack base which is where now I’m living

Mack base which is where now I’m living

Mack base which is where now I’m living with about 5,000 displaced people the

with about 5,000 displaced people the

with about 5,000 displaced people the fight is ongoing outside the walls of

fight is ongoing outside the walls of

fight is ongoing outside the walls of this compound and we’re where they’re

this compound and we’re where they’re

this compound and we’re where they’re protected by a small group of Congolese

protected by a small group of Congolese

protected by a small group of Congolese soldiers this image was taken very early

soldiers this image was taken very early

soldiers this image was taken very early in the morning about five o’clock just

in the morning about five o’clock just

in the morning about five o’clock just as the Sun is starting to rise and

as the Sun is starting to rise and

as the Sun is starting to rise and normally about the time when if a town

normally about the time when if a town

normally about the time when if a town is going to be attacked it is attacked

is going to be attacked it is attacked

is going to be attacked it is attacked and this was the town the time when the

and this was the town the time when the

and this was the town the time when the celica were coming into bossangoa and

celica were coming into bossangoa and

celica were coming into bossangoa and the local population had amassed around

the local population had amassed around

the local population had amassed around the form act based because they could

the form act based because they could

the form act based because they could feel it they could hear it they could

feel it they could hear it they could

feel it they could hear it they could villages like this small as they are

villages like this small as they are

villages like this small as they are start to feel that Aris there is

start to feel that Aris there is

start to feel that Aris there is something wrong quite early and so this

something wrong quite early and so this

something wrong quite early and so this population is kind of waiting at the

population is kind of waiting at the

population is kind of waiting at the format base to flee in so that they can

format base to flee in so that they can

format base to flee in so that they can get some sanctuary and this is in the

get some sanctuary and this is in the

get some sanctuary and this is in the local hospital that was being run by

local hospital that was being run by

local hospital that was being run by Doctors Without Borders médecins

Doctors Without Borders médecins

Doctors Without Borders médecins LaFonte and ironically here we have on

LaFonte and ironically here we have on

LaFonte and ironically here we have on the right side an anti-balaka fighter

the right side an anti-balaka fighter

the right side an anti-balaka fighter and his wife and child in the middle and

and his wife and child in the middle and

and his wife and child in the middle and on the left side is a Celica fighter

on the left side is a Celica fighter

on the left side is a Celica fighter both sitting lying side by side

both sitting lying side by side

both sitting lying side by side receiving the same medical care from the

receiving the same medical care from the

receiving the same medical care from the same doctor and living in perfect

same doctor and living in perfect

same doctor and living in perfect harmony as they had done

harmony as they had done

harmony as they had done all the battle as their populations had

all the battle as their populations had

all the battle as their populations had done for many generations before and

done for many generations before and

done for many generations before and children have played a large part in

children have played a large part in

children have played a large part in this conflict and this young Celica

this conflict and this young Celica

this conflict and this young Celica fighter was actually brought from Sudan

fighter was actually brought from Sudan

fighter was actually brought from Sudan so he’s Sudanese came through Chad and

so he’s Sudanese came through Chad and

so he’s Sudanese came through Chad and is now fighting in Central African

is now fighting in Central African

is now fighting in Central African Republic for the Celica and he’s about

Republic for the Celica and he’s about

Republic for the Celica and he’s about 14 years old very few people really know

14 years old very few people really know

14 years old very few people really know that their age but very clearly he’s

that their age but very clearly he’s

that their age but very clearly he’s underage

underage

underage and both sides were using children and

and both sides were using children and

and both sides were using children and still are using children in the fight we

still are using children in the fight we

still are using children in the fight we talk about Muslim and we talked about

talk about Muslim and we talked about

talk about Muslim and we talked about anti-balaka and the Christian and the

anti-balaka and the Christian and the

anti-balaka and the Christian and the Animus population but also there are

Animus population but also there are

Animus population but also there are kind of cultural group called the Pearl

kind of cultural group called the Pearl

kind of cultural group called the Pearl who are the nomadic herders the people

who are the nomadic herders the people

who are the nomadic herders the people that look after the cattle and they have

that look after the cattle and they have

that look after the cattle and they have enormous wealth all embedded in cattle

enormous wealth all embedded in cattle

enormous wealth all embedded in cattle and they wander through this whole

and they wander through this whole

and they wander through this whole region they wander through Cameroon Chad

region they wander through Cameroon Chad

region they wander through Cameroon Chad Central African Republic and they follow

Central African Republic and they follow

Central African Republic and they follow the reigns as the rains move they move

the reigns as the rains move they move

the reigns as the rains move they move their cattle and the cattle graze and

their cattle and the cattle graze and

their cattle and the cattle graze and they move through this whole region they

they move through this whole region they

they move through this whole region they don’t consider themselves from Central

don’t consider themselves from Central

don’t consider themselves from Central African Republic or Chad or Cameroon

African Republic or Chad or Cameroon

African Republic or Chad or Cameroon they are from the region and they were

they are from the region and they were

they are from the region and they were hugely persecuted by the anti-balaka

hugely persecuted by the anti-balaka

hugely persecuted by the anti-balaka during this time because they were the

during this time because they were the

during this time because they were the source of beef they were also

source of beef they were also

source of beef they were also predominantly Muslim and so they were

predominantly Muslim and so they were

predominantly Muslim and so they were focused in the anti-balaka focused on

focused in the anti-balaka focused on

focused in the anti-balaka focused on them for that as well and this young

them for that as well and this young

them for that as well and this young woman saw her whole family massacred

woman saw her whole family massacred

woman saw her whole family massacred around her her 12 children and her

around her her 12 children and her

around her her 12 children and her husband were killed and she was shot in

husband were killed and she was shot in

husband were killed and she was shot in the back of the head and was left for

the back of the head and was left for

the back of the head and was left for dead and she was only found by a group

dead and she was only found by a group

dead and she was only found by a group of pearl herders about five or six days

of pearl herders about five or six days

of pearl herders about five or six days later and they brought her near dead to

later and they brought her near dead to

later and they brought her near dead to the hospital where she was cared for and

the hospital where she was cared for and

the hospital where she was cared for and and survived but she still has the

and survived but she still has the

and survived but she still has the bullet in the back of her skull this is

bullet in the back of her skull this is

bullet in the back of her skull this is the church in bossangoa and the

the church in bossangoa and the

the church in bossangoa and the displaced camp for the Christian

displaced camp for the Christian

displaced camp for the Christian population about thirty thousand people

population about thirty thousand people

population about thirty thousand people were there and are still there actually

were there and are still there actually

were there and are still there actually and this is a pearl lady who lost her

and this is a pearl lady who lost her

and this is a pearl lady who lost her husband she lost five of her children

husband she lost five of her children

husband she lost five of her children and the only reason she sat there with

and the only reason she sat there with

and the only reason she sat there with her young boy here it was because she

her young boy here it was because she

her young boy here it was because she dressed him up as a girl and was allowed

dressed him up as a girl and was allowed

dressed him up as a girl and was allowed to leave the village that she was in

to leave the village that she was in

to leave the village that she was in because the group of anti-balaka that

because the group of anti-balaka that

because the group of anti-balaka that she was with were not killing young

she was with were not killing young

she was with were not killing young girls

girls

girls just killing boys this is inside the

just killing boys this is inside the

just killing boys this is inside the church the displaced camp and the young

church the displaced camp and the young

church the displaced camp and the young girl in front you see here sat on the

girl in front you see here sat on the

girl in front you see here sat on the chair she’s 13 years old she sat there

chair she’s 13 years old she sat there

chair she’s 13 years old she sat there with her daughter and this is another

with her daughter and this is another

with her daughter and this is another issue that we have in Central African

issue that we have in Central African

issue that we have in Central African Republic concept of child marriages is

Republic concept of child marriages is

Republic concept of child marriages is is prolific and we came across it in

is prolific and we came across it in

is prolific and we came across it in every town that we went to every display

every town that we went to every display

every town that we went to every display scandal we went to for a lot of the time

scandal we went to for a lot of the time

scandal we went to for a lot of the time the anti-balaka were in these bushes

the anti-balaka were in these bushes

the anti-balaka were in these bushes hiding away like this and then things

hiding away like this and then things

hiding away like this and then things changed

changed

changed December came around and the anti-balaka

December came around and the anti-balaka

December came around and the anti-balaka started organizing themselves and they

started organizing themselves and they

started organizing themselves and they became stronger to try and come and

became stronger to try and come and

became stronger to try and come and fight and engage the Celica in a more

fight and engage the Celica in a more

fight and engage the Celica in a more active way and the Celica were told you

active way and the Celica were told you

active way and the Celica were told you cannot treat to your people with such

cannot treat to your people with such

cannot treat to your people with such disdain you cannot treat your people

disdain you cannot treat your people

disdain you cannot treat your people with such hatred and expect them not to

with such hatred and expect them not to

with such hatred and expect them not to rebel against you and time and time and

rebel against you and time and time and

rebel against you and time and time and time again organizations NGOs human

time again organizations NGOs human

time again organizations NGOs human rights organizations told them this and

rights organizations told them this and

rights organizations told them this and they ignored it and the anti-balaka the

they ignored it and the anti-balaka the

they ignored it and the anti-balaka the Christian population came out of the

Christian population came out of the

Christian population came out of the bush the anti-balaka came out of the

bush the anti-balaka came out of the

bush the anti-balaka came out of the bush strong motivated and very very

bush strong motivated and very very

bush strong motivated and very very angry they started to rise up and attack

angry they started to rise up and attack

angry they started to rise up and attack the local population sometimes the local

the local population sometimes the local

the local population sometimes the local Muslim population sometimes they were

Muslim population sometimes they were

Muslim population sometimes they were just taking things to try to enhance

just taking things to try to enhance

just taking things to try to enhance their strength and have their assets

their strength and have their assets

their strength and have their assets this of course led to the local Muslim

this of course led to the local Muslim

this of course led to the local Muslim population and the Pearl population the

population and the Pearl population the

population and the Pearl population the nomads to flee and to try to find

nomads to flee and to try to find

nomads to flee and to try to find sanctuary in here we have pearl

sanctuary in here we have pearl

sanctuary in here we have pearl population hiding in a Christian Church

population hiding in a Christian Church

population hiding in a Christian Church protected by the priests in that

protected by the priests in that

protected by the priests in that Christian Church in this town is in Bali

Christian Church in this town is in Bali

Christian Church in this town is in Bali and many of the priests in the churches

and many of the priests in the churches

and many of the priests in the churches all around Central African Republic were

all around Central African Republic were

all around Central African Republic were really sanctuaries for the Muslim

really sanctuaries for the Muslim

really sanctuaries for the Muslim population they open their doors in

population they open their doors in

population they open their doors in order to protect a Muslim population

order to protect a Muslim population

order to protect a Muslim population from their own Christian followers this

from their own Christian followers this

from their own Christian followers this rise of the anti-balaka led to the

rise of the anti-balaka led to the

rise of the anti-balaka led to the Muslim population deciding to relocate

Muslim population deciding to relocate

Muslim population deciding to relocate this is a Muslim man what happened when

this is a Muslim man what happened when

this is a Muslim man what happened when these enclaves were created is that the

these enclaves were created is that the

these enclaves were created is that the anti-balaka then started picking off the

anti-balaka then started picking off the

anti-balaka then started picking off the Muslims on the edges firing throwing

Muslims on the edges firing throwing

Muslims on the edges firing throwing grenades throwing RPGs and slowly this

grenades throwing RPGs and slowly this

grenades throwing RPGs and slowly this Muslim popular

Muslim popular

Muslim popular and started to be killed they were

and started to be killed they were

and started to be killed they were waiting there in these enclaves where

waiting there in these enclaves where

waiting there in these enclaves where people were trapped they couldn’t leave

people were trapped they couldn’t leave

people were trapped they couldn’t leave they can go anyway they were completely

they can go anyway they were completely

they can go anyway they were completely surrounded by anti-balaka and there was

surrounded by anti-balaka and there was

surrounded by anti-balaka and there was no way out safely no way out and the

no way out safely no way out and the

no way out safely no way out and the United Nations much as though they were

United Nations much as though they were

United Nations much as though they were there to protect they were also very

there to protect they were also very

there to protect they were also very fearful at the beginning too to

fearful at the beginning too to

fearful at the beginning too to contribute and assist ethnic cleansing

contribute and assist ethnic cleansing

contribute and assist ethnic cleansing and so these people were trapped in

and so these people were trapped in

and so these people were trapped in these zones and were being killed on a

these zones and were being killed on a

these zones and were being killed on a daily basis this young man was

daily basis this young man was

daily basis this young man was demonstrating against the state that the

demonstrating against the state that the

demonstrating against the state that the Muslims were being held in and was shot

Muslims were being held in and was shot

Muslims were being held in and was shot by the French peacekeepers and his wife

by the French peacekeepers and his wife

by the French peacekeepers and his wife a few minutes later and finding out that

a few minutes later and finding out that

a few minutes later and finding out that her husband has been killed as the

her husband has been killed as the

her husband has been killed as the celica started to leave as the rise of

celica started to leave as the rise of

celica started to leave as the rise of the anti-balaka increased the celica

the anti-balaka increased the celica

the anti-balaka increased the celica started decided to go they started to

started decided to go they started to

started decided to go they started to kidnap people and they started to take

kidnap people and they started to take

kidnap people and they started to take them to help them carry the baggage much

them to help them carry the baggage much

them to help them carry the baggage much as though we see with the LRA

as though we see with the LRA

as though we see with the LRA carrying baggage to move it out of the

carrying baggage to move it out of the

carrying baggage to move it out of the country many of the the local population

country many of the the local population

country many of the the local population was kidnapped by the celica and to take

was kidnapped by the celica and to take

was kidnapped by the celica and to take them out of country and this actually is

them out of country and this actually is

them out of country and this actually is a man I met on the street about 50

a man I met on the street about 50

a man I met on the street about 50 kilometres outside of Bunge and he’d

kilometres outside of Bunge and he’d

kilometres outside of Bunge and he’d been kidnapped by the celica spent nine

been kidnapped by the celica spent nine

been kidnapped by the celica spent nine days carrying baggage with the celica

days carrying baggage with the celica

days carrying baggage with the celica being beaten every day to move quicker

being beaten every day to move quicker

being beaten every day to move quicker and move quicker you know don’t stops

and move quicker you know don’t stops

and move quicker you know don’t stops because we need to leave this area very

because we need to leave this area very

because we need to leave this area very quickly because we’re going to be killed

quickly because we’re going to be killed

quickly because we’re going to be killed and he was being beaten to carry all the

and he was being beaten to carry all the

and he was being beaten to carry all the baggage he managed to escape with his

baggage he managed to escape with his

baggage he managed to escape with his father and we found him on the side of

father and we found him on the side of

father and we found him on the side of the road emaciated and hungry and tired

the road emaciated and hungry and tired

the road emaciated and hungry and tired and we put him in our car and brought

and we put him in our car and brought

and we put him in our car and brought him back to bangy and this is the moment

him back to bangy and this is the moment

him back to bangy and this is the moment a very privileged moment that we have of

a very privileged moment that we have of

a very privileged moment that we have of taking him home and introducing him once

taking him home and introducing him once

taking him home and introducing him once more to his mother who thought he’d been

more to his mother who thought he’d been

more to his mother who thought he’d been killed the anti-balaka rise up and

killed the anti-balaka rise up and

killed the anti-balaka rise up and continued to destroy the Muslim

continued to destroy the Muslim

continued to destroy the Muslim properties and here we see one of the

properties and here we see one of the

properties and here we see one of the main Colonels Colonel Durga Doni

main Colonels Colonel Durga Doni

main Colonels Colonel Durga Doni of the anti-balaka with his Grigri and

of the anti-balaka with his Grigri and

of the anti-balaka with his Grigri and his grenades ready for the fight and

his grenades ready for the fight and

his grenades ready for the fight and this is essentially what happened after

this is essentially what happened after

this is essentially what happened after that the celica have now left Bunge

that the celica have now left Bunge

that the celica have now left Bunge there is no one to protect the Muslim

there is no one to protect the Muslim

there is no one to protect the Muslim population and so the for a period of

population and so the for a period of

population and so the for a period of time between

time between

time between the last week in January perhaps and the

the last week in January perhaps and the

the last week in January perhaps and the middle of March I’d the way I describe

middle of March I’d the way I describe

middle of March I’d the way I describe it is that the country for a time went

it is that the country for a time went

it is that the country for a time went psychotic there was killing on a scale

psychotic there was killing on a scale

psychotic there was killing on a scale I’ve never seen in 16 years covering

I’ve never seen in 16 years covering

I’ve never seen in 16 years covering conflict in Africa and imagery that I’d

conflict in Africa and imagery that I’d

conflict in Africa and imagery that I’d prefer really not to have in my mind but

prefer really not to have in my mind but

prefer really not to have in my mind but it’s important that we recognize that

it’s important that we recognize that

it’s important that we recognize that this happened it’s important that we

this happened it’s important that we

this happened it’s important that we understand the severity of this conflict

understand the severity of this conflict

understand the severity of this conflict and also the hatred that was for a

and also the hatred that was for a

and also the hatred that was for a period present in this area this is a

period present in this area this is a

period present in this area this is a young band being lynched on the streets

young band being lynched on the streets

young band being lynched on the streets he’s importer a Christian Porter who was

he’s importer a Christian Porter who was

he’s importer a Christian Porter who was bringing supplies into a Muslim enclaves

bringing supplies into a Muslim enclaves

bringing supplies into a Muslim enclaves so that they could eat they would have

so that they could eat they would have

so that they could eat they would have flour to cook with and and sugar to use

flour to cook with and and sugar to use

flour to cook with and and sugar to use for their tea and as he came in he was

for their tea and as he came in he was

for their tea and as he came in he was caught by the Muslim population he was

caught by the Muslim population he was

caught by the Muslim population he was serving and attacked and then beaten and

serving and attacked and then beaten and

serving and attacked and then beaten and then chased through the streets with

then chased through the streets with

then chased through the streets with machetes and bows and arrows thankfully

machetes and bows and arrows thankfully

machetes and bows and arrows thankfully he escaped many many more didn’t this

he escaped many many more didn’t this

he escaped many many more didn’t this young man actually is Muslim and is

young man actually is Muslim and is

young man actually is Muslim and is disabled and couldn’t communicate that

disabled and couldn’t communicate that

disabled and couldn’t communicate that he was Muslim and so I was beaten up to

he was Muslim and so I was beaten up to

he was Muslim and so I was beaten up to the point of almost death by his fellow

the point of almost death by his fellow

the point of almost death by his fellow Muslims these are the reality of what

Muslims these are the reality of what

Muslims these are the reality of what happened day after day after day for six

happened day after day after day for six

happened day after day after day for six weeks in Bangi

weeks in Bangi

weeks in Bangi I think I witnessed maybe 10 to 15

I think I witnessed maybe 10 to 15

I think I witnessed maybe 10 to 15 people being killed in front of my

people being killed in front of my

people being killed in front of my camera every day the peacekeepers tried

camera every day the peacekeepers tried

camera every day the peacekeepers tried their best to keep the peace but simply

their best to keep the peace but simply

their best to keep the peace but simply they couldn’t control it there weren’t

they couldn’t control it there weren’t

they couldn’t control it there weren’t enough of them and the capital Bunge was

enough of them and the capital Bunge was

enough of them and the capital Bunge was completely out of control

completely out of control

completely out of control the anti-balaka throughout the country

the anti-balaka throughout the country

the anti-balaka throughout the country took control of whatever they could take

took control of whatever they could take

took control of whatever they could take control of and preyed on the remaining

control of and preyed on the remaining

control of and preyed on the remaining Muslims that were trapped in these

Muslims that were trapped in these

Muslims that were trapped in these enclaves and they were picking them off

enclaves and they were picking them off

enclaves and they were picking them off one by one and so what did that lead to

one by one and so what did that lead to

one by one and so what did that lead to some people call it ethnic cleansing

some people call it ethnic cleansing

some people call it ethnic cleansing Amnesty International have called ethnic

Amnesty International have called ethnic

Amnesty International have called ethnic cleansing what is ethnic cleansing

cleansing what is ethnic cleansing

cleansing what is ethnic cleansing ethnic cleansing is where a group a

ethnic cleansing is where a group a

ethnic cleansing is where a group a population a targeted very specific

population a targeted very specific

population a targeted very specific ethnic group are targeted by an

ethnic group are targeted by an

ethnic group are targeted by an organized group and it was very

organized group and it was very

organized group and it was very difficult to say at the beginning

difficult to say at the beginning

difficult to say at the beginning whether the anti-balaka were organized

whether the anti-balaka were organized

whether the anti-balaka were organized whether they were coordinated whether

whether they were coordinated whether

whether they were coordinated whether there was a chain of command it since

there was a chain of command it since

there was a chain of command it since been proved and they have admitted that

been proved and they have admitted that

been proved and they have admitted that there is a chain of command within the

there is a chain of command within the

there is a chain of command within the anti black and so maybe we can call it

anti black and so maybe we can call it

anti black and so maybe we can call it ethnic cleansing but really it’s

ethnic cleansing but really it’s

ethnic cleansing but really it’s irrelevant to what we call it because

irrelevant to what we call it because

irrelevant to what we call it because the effect it was really the same this

the effect it was really the same this

the effect it was really the same this is a Chad Special Forces soldier coming

is a Chad Special Forces soldier coming

is a Chad Special Forces soldier coming into Bunge to escort tens of thousands

into Bunge to escort tens of thousands

into Bunge to escort tens of thousands of people out of the region on these

of people out of the region on these

of people out of the region on these trucks I stood there for maybe 45

trucks I stood there for maybe 45

trucks I stood there for maybe 45 minutes as truck after truck after truck

minutes as truck after truck after truck

minutes as truck after truck after truck loaded up to the extent that this one is

loaded up to the extent that this one is

loaded up to the extent that this one is loaded up left

loaded up left

loaded up left bongi with Muslims on board this is a

bongi with Muslims on board this is a

bongi with Muslims on board this is a young father with a newborn waiting for

young father with a newborn waiting for

young father with a newborn waiting for the trucks to leave the center of Bunge

the trucks to leave the center of Bunge

the trucks to leave the center of Bunge many of these trucks were targeted by

many of these trucks were targeted by

many of these trucks were targeted by anti-balaka on the road and and grenades

anti-balaka on the road and and grenades

anti-balaka on the road and and grenades were thrown into these trucks from the

were thrown into these trucks from the

were thrown into these trucks from the villages that they were passing through

villages that they were passing through

villages that they were passing through so not everybody made it through and the

so not everybody made it through and the

so not everybody made it through and the trip was hours days – you know they were

trip was hours days – you know they were

trip was hours days – you know they were running the gauntlet of these

running the gauntlet of these

running the gauntlet of these anti-balaka groups for days to get to

anti-balaka groups for days to get to

anti-balaka groups for days to get to Cameroon and Chad ivan recently visited

Cameroon and Chad ivan recently visited

Cameroon and Chad ivan recently visited most of the Perl population hundreds of

most of the Perl population hundreds of

most of the Perl population hundreds of thousands of people that are seeking

thousands of people that are seeking

thousands of people that are seeking refuge in Cameroon for the first time in

refuge in Cameroon for the first time in

refuge in Cameroon for the first time in 18 months they feel safe for the first

18 months they feel safe for the first

18 months they feel safe for the first time in 18 months they have enough food

time in 18 months they have enough food

time in 18 months they have enough food for the first time in a very long time

for the first time in a very long time

for the first time in a very long time they have shelter over their heads the

they have shelter over their heads the

they have shelter over their heads the children go to school and so it was a

children go to school and so it was a

children go to school and so it was a very uplifting after such after many

very uplifting after such after many

very uplifting after such after many many months of hatred many many months

many months of hatred many many months

many months of hatred many many months of pain many many months of killing I

of pain many many months of killing I

of pain many many months of killing I was starting to see the population that

was starting to see the population that

was starting to see the population that I’d known ten years ago in Bangi

I’d known ten years ago in Bangi

I’d known ten years ago in Bangi I saw the people that were making the

I saw the people that were making the

I saw the people that were making the butterflies I saw the laughter again I

butterflies I saw the laughter again I

butterflies I saw the laughter again I saw the children playing football again

saw the children playing football again

saw the children playing football again all guarded by now the Cameroon military

all guarded by now the Cameroon military

all guarded by now the Cameroon military so that the anti-balaka don’t come

so that the anti-balaka don’t come

so that the anti-balaka don’t come across and start attacking the local

across and start attacking the local

across and start attacking the local population the children some of them go

population the children some of them go

population the children some of them go to school for the first time and they

to school for the first time and they

to school for the first time and they now live as they lived in Central

now live as they lived in Central

now live as they lived in Central African Republic in these camps

African Republic in these camps

African Republic in these camps Carr and H UNHCR United Nations High

Carr and H UNHCR United Nations High

Carr and H UNHCR United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees is doing

Commissioner for Refugees is doing

Commissioner for Refugees is doing actually a really interesting really

actually a really interesting really

actually a really interesting really good job of integrating the refugee

good job of integrating the refugee

good job of integrating the refugee population with the local Cameroonian

population with the local Cameroonian

population with the local Cameroonian population so that there’s no very

population so that there’s no very

population so that there’s no very little animosity between the two so they

little animosity between the two so they

little animosity between the two so they go into a town and they bore ten or

go into a town and they bore ten or

go into a town and they bore ten or fifteen wells they create ten or 50

fifteen wells they create ten or 50

fifteen wells they create ten or 50 wells for the whole population not just

wells for the whole population not just

wells for the whole population not just for the refugee population but for the

for the refugee population but for the

for the refugee population but for the whole population they build schools for

whole population they build schools for

whole population they build schools for the whole population not just for the

the whole population not just for the

the whole population not just for the refugee population so in a way they are

refugee population so in a way they are

refugee population so in a way they are learning their lessons they’re becoming

learning their lessons they’re becoming

learning their lessons they’re becoming better at what they do and this is a

better at what they do and this is a

better at what they do and this is a great example we were very encouraged by

great example we were very encouraged by

great example we were very encouraged by what we saw there there’s a lot of talk

what we saw there there’s a lot of talk

what we saw there there’s a lot of talk about return like when can these people

about return like when can these people

about return like when can these people return but I asked all of these people

return but I asked all of these people

return but I asked all of these people when did they want to return if they

when did they want to return if they

when did they want to return if they wanted to return and no one wanted to

wanted to return and no one wanted to

wanted to return and no one wanted to return no one needed to return and this

return no one needed to return and this

return no one needed to return and this is a really interesting concept for

is a really interesting concept for

is a really interesting concept for refugees should we force them at some

refugees should we force them at some

refugees should we force them at some point to return should we be really

point to return should we be really

point to return should we be really working for that end and this is a

working for that end and this is a

working for that end and this is a really interesting question that we

really interesting question that we

really interesting question that we still don’t know the answer to thank you

still don’t know the answer to thank you

still don’t know the answer to thank you very much indeed for listening

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