welcome back to hit mojo 29 segment two joining me today is Harold Simkins
joining me today is Harold Simkins
joining me today is Harold Simkins professor of marketing at John Wilson
professor of marketing at John Wilson
professor of marketing at John Wilson School of Business and Concordia so I
School of Business and Concordia so I
School of Business and Concordia so I want to talk to you now about the role
want to talk to you now about the role
want to talk to you now about the role of the CMO and the role of vice
of the CMO and the role of vice
of the CMO and the role of vice president of marketing and basically the
president of marketing and basically the
president of marketing and basically the marketing function within the boardroom
marketing function within the boardroom
marketing function within the boardroom within you know dude does the marketing
within you know dude does the marketing
within you know dude does the marketing chief really have the ear of the CEO and
chief really have the ear of the CEO and
chief really have the ear of the CEO and not in the context of let’s do this
not in the context of let’s do this
not in the context of let’s do this campaign let’s hire this agency I’m
campaign let’s hire this agency I’m
campaign let’s hire this agency I’m guessing that’s their job and the seal
guessing that’s their job and the seal
guessing that’s their job and the seal will listen but if a CMO says this is a
will listen but if a CMO says this is a
will listen but if a CMO says this is a crappy idea or a crappy product or this
crappy idea or a crappy product or this
crappy idea or a crappy product or this is crazy how often does a CEO listen
is crazy how often does a CEO listen
is crazy how often does a CEO listen this is the chief yeah all right we
this is the chief yeah all right we
this is the chief yeah all right we think a good chief executive officer
think a good chief executive officer
think a good chief executive officer would have confidence and as CMO because
would have confidence and as CMO because
would have confidence and as CMO because he or she has hired that person and is
he or she has hired that person and is
he or she has hired that person and is believed in their their qualifications
believed in their their qualifications
believed in their their qualifications so and it’s rare that an idea would get
so and it’s rare that an idea would get
so and it’s rare that an idea would get that far where a chief marketing officer
that far where a chief marketing officer
that far where a chief marketing officer would have to say to his or her superior
would have to say to his or her superior
would have to say to his or her superior that this is a bad idea the idea should
that this is a bad idea the idea should
that this is a bad idea the idea should be killed before it even gets to that
be killed before it even gets to that
be killed before it even gets to that stage okay so what is your thought on
stage okay so what is your thought on
stage okay so what is your thought on CEOs who appear in ads that’s usually
CEOs who appear in ads that’s usually
CEOs who appear in ads that’s usually the kiss of death like when the CEO of
the kiss of death like when the CEO of
the kiss of death like when the CEO of daimlerchrysler appeared that’s when
daimlerchrysler appeared that’s when
daimlerchrysler appeared that’s when people said this company’s going to go
people said this company’s going to go
people said this company’s going to go downhill it went downhill so it is is
downhill it went downhill so it is is
downhill it went downhill so it is is when the CEO is cast in an ad spot is
when the CEO is cast in an ad spot is
when the CEO is cast in an ad spot is that usually the idea of the marketing
that usually the idea of the marketing
that usually the idea of the marketing people or is it the CEO who thinks this
people or is it the CEO who thinks this
people or is it the CEO who thinks this is a great idea or is it the ad agency
is a great idea or is it the ad agency
is a great idea or is it the ad agency that’s trying to butter up the CEO
that’s trying to butter up the CEO
that’s trying to butter up the CEO oftentimes state the ad agency has to
oftentimes state the ad agency has to
oftentimes state the ad agency has to drink the CEO has to drag the CEO in
drink the CEO has to drag the CEO in
drink the CEO has to drag the CEO in kicking and screaming that oftentimes
kicking and screaming that oftentimes
kicking and screaming that oftentimes they don’t want to appear in front of
they don’t want to appear in front of
they don’t want to appear in front of the camera but there have been some
the camera but there have been some
the camera but there have been some tremendous success stories such as Lee
tremendous success stories such as Lee
tremendous success stories such as Lee Iacocca with Chrysler when they turned
Iacocca with Chrysler when they turned
Iacocca with Chrysler when they turned him around when they turn the company
him around when they turn the company
him around when they turn the company around the Wendy CEO Dave of course
around the Wendy CEO Dave of course
around the Wendy CEO Dave of course dates days mr. Dave Thomas Dave Thomas
dates days mr. Dave Thomas Dave Thomas
dates days mr. Dave Thomas Dave Thomas when the crisis with maple leaf foods
when the crisis with maple leaf foods
when the crisis with maple leaf foods Listeria breakup occurred I forget his
Listeria breakup occurred I forget his
Listeria breakup occurred I forget his first name was lives names McCain and he
first name was lives names McCain and he
first name was lives names McCain and he being front and center in the
being front and center in the
being front and center in the advertising and PR for that cut for the
advertising and PR for that cut for the
advertising and PR for that cut for the campaign to assuage the negative
campaign to assuage the negative
campaign to assuage the negative opinions that performing and reasonably
opinions that performing and reasonably
opinions that performing and reasonably solved negative opinion
solved negative opinion
solved negative opinion that were developing out there so
that were developing out there so
that were developing out there so there’s oftentimes a good argument to
there’s oftentimes a good argument to
there’s oftentimes a good argument to put a CEO in the ads and commercials i
put a CEO in the ads and commercials i
put a CEO in the ads and commercials i think the use of Galen Weston in in a
think the use of Galen Weston in in a
think the use of Galen Weston in in a Loblaws commercials was effective okay
Loblaws commercials was effective okay
Loblaws commercials was effective okay so this is an interesting thing whereby
so this is an interesting thing whereby
so this is an interesting thing whereby I immediately assume the CEOs being
I immediately assume the CEOs being
I immediately assume the CEOs being casted ads as a negative because I think
casted ads as a negative because I think
casted ads as a negative because I think people tend to remember the disasters
people tend to remember the disasters
people tend to remember the disasters more so than you know all the cruises
more so than you know all the cruises
more so than you know all the cruises that don’t crash nobody remembers them
that don’t crash nobody remembers them
that don’t crash nobody remembers them but we remember Titanic and whatnot not
but we remember Titanic and whatnot not
but we remember Titanic and whatnot not very tasteful analogy but is that
very tasteful analogy but is that
very tasteful analogy but is that something where whenever there’s a
something where whenever there’s a
something where whenever there’s a mistake is is do we only really like and
mistake is is do we only really like and
mistake is is do we only really like and do you guys like in marketing classrooms
do you guys like in marketing classrooms
do you guys like in marketing classrooms do you only focus on the negatives or
do you only focus on the negatives or
do you only focus on the negatives or more so on the negatives as case studies
more so on the negatives as case studies
more so on the negatives as case studies or is it more of the success cases what
or is it more of the success cases what
or is it more of the success cases what are we more prone to remember we always
are we more prone to remember we always
are we more prone to remember we always talk about New Coke for example but how
talk about New Coke for example but how
talk about New Coke for example but how often do we talk about let’s say cokes
often do we talk about let’s say cokes
often do we talk about let’s say cokes acquisition of vitamin water which while
acquisition of vitamin water which while
acquisition of vitamin water which while expensive get got them a foothold into
expensive get got them a foothold into
expensive get got them a foothold into something yeah I mean successes name III
something yeah I mean successes name III
something yeah I mean successes name III amazing like for every 10 ideas that you
amazing like for every 10 ideas that you
amazing like for every 10 ideas that you have that’s a marketing mishap how many
have that’s a marketing mishap how many
have that’s a marketing mishap how many do you think of that our let’s say Smash
do you think of that our let’s say Smash
do you think of that our let’s say Smash Hitz and Grand Slams um Facebook how so
Hitz and Grand Slams um Facebook how so
Hitz and Grand Slams um Facebook how so which one well Facebook as an idea okay
which one well Facebook as an idea okay
which one well Facebook as an idea okay there’s a business idea Oh amazon.com as
there’s a business idea Oh amazon.com as
there’s a business idea Oh amazon.com as a business idea Oh BMW resurrecting the
a business idea Oh BMW resurrecting the
a business idea Oh BMW resurrecting the mini bread how important is the brand
mini bread how important is the brand
mini bread how important is the brand like Amazon start off as abracadabra in
like Amazon start off as abracadabra in
like Amazon start off as abracadabra in your opinion in terms of wearing the
your opinion in terms of wearing the
your opinion in terms of wearing the branding hat would that brand would have
branding hat would that brand would have
branding hat would that brand would have ever been as successful as Amazon or you
ever been as successful as Amazon or you
ever been as successful as Amazon or you think it doesn’t matter especially in
think it doesn’t matter especially in
think it doesn’t matter especially in the agent probably could be but they
the agent probably could be but they
the agent probably could be but they might have had to spend a lot more money
might have had to spend a lot more money
might have had to spend a lot more money on a brand like abracadabra then on
on a brand like abracadabra then on
on a brand like abracadabra then on amazon but amazon doesn’t mean anything
amazon but amazon doesn’t mean anything
amazon but amazon doesn’t mean anything anyway um well I think it’s more
anyway um well I think it’s more
anyway um well I think it’s more associate like people probably recognize
associate like people probably recognize
associate like people probably recognize it a bit more than abracadabra just the
it a bit more than abracadabra just the
it a bit more than abracadabra just the spelling alone or could be but with the
spelling alone or could be but with the
spelling alone or could be but with the what does the Amazon River have to do
what does the Amazon River have to do
what does the Amazon River have to do with books jungle chaos finding no yeah
with books jungle chaos finding no yeah
with books jungle chaos finding no yeah that might be a stretch okay so let’s
that might be a stretch okay so let’s
that might be a stretch okay so let’s now get to the list what are some of
now get to the list what are some of
now get to the list what are some of your top marketing disasters one that
your top marketing disasters one that
your top marketing disasters one that came to mind this morning I said well
came to mind this morning I said well
came to mind this morning I said well why don’t I thought about this one
why don’t I thought about this one
why don’t I thought about this one before remember Krispy Kreme yes if
before remember Krispy Kreme yes if
before remember Krispy Kreme yes if member the lineups of people to get the
member the lineups of people to get the
member the lineups of people to get the donuts
donuts
donuts remember the buzz that was incredible i
remember the buzz that was incredible i
remember the buzz that was incredible i mean lining up for a product that wasn’t
mean lining up for a product that wasn’t
mean lining up for a product that wasn’t that much different from what the
that much different from what the
that much different from what the competition dunkin donuts or two
competition dunkin donuts or two
competition dunkin donuts or two importance offered to be honest with you
importance offered to be honest with you
importance offered to be honest with you i really never understood what the fuss
i really never understood what the fuss
i really never understood what the fuss was all about maybe what the fuss was a
was all about maybe what the fuss was a
was all about maybe what the fuss was a bit was the fuss it was just that word
bit was the fuss it was just that word
bit was the fuss it was just that word about just that does that you know get
about just that does that you know get
about just that does that you know get no Tom he was in line for hours they
no Tom he was in line for hours they
no Tom he was in line for hours they were giving away doughnuts and people
were giving away doughnuts and people
were giving away doughnuts and people would line up to get the free doughnuts
would line up to get the free doughnuts
would line up to get the free doughnuts and that thing went to the top hit the
and that thing went to the top hit the
and that thing went to the top hit the stratosphere and sunk really really
stratosphere and sunk really really
stratosphere and sunk really really quickly why did it sink that’s a good
quickly why did it sink that’s a good
quickly why did it sink that’s a good question there were accounting
question there were accounting
question there were accounting irregularities in the government I think
irregularities in the government I think
irregularities in the government I think it expanded too quickly and they weren’t
it expanded too quickly and they weren’t
it expanded too quickly and they weren’t able to make back the investment fast
able to make back the investment fast
able to make back the investment fast enough that they’d put in to expand but
enough that they’d put in to expand but
enough that they’d put in to expand but there’s an example of something that was
there’s an example of something that was
there’s an example of something that was really hot and died really really
really hot and died really really
really hot and died really really quickly um other examples of failures
quickly um other examples of failures
quickly um other examples of failures that I would note Webvan we heard our
that I would note Webvan we heard our
that I would note Webvan we heard our version here called peachtree um when
version here called peachtree um when
version here called peachtree um when we’re going to be buying everything on
we’re going to be buying everything on
we’re going to be buying everything on the web including groceries and of
the web including groceries and of
the web including groceries and of course they were online grocery outlets
course they were online grocery outlets
course they were online grocery outlets I never understood have that idea even
I never understood have that idea even
I never understood have that idea even got off the ground because the deliver
got off the ground because the deliver
got off the ground because the deliver groceries to people’s homes you need a
groceries to people’s homes you need a
groceries to people’s homes you need a window they were talking about
window they were talking about
window they were talking about installing lockable refrigerators
installing lockable refrigerators
installing lockable refrigerators outside people’s homes so they could put
outside people’s homes so they could put
outside people’s homes so they could put the perishables in there and just the
the perishables in there and just the
the perishables in there and just the cost of doing that you mentioned the
cost of doing that you mentioned the
cost of doing that you mentioned the ford edsel I didn’t mention the ford
ford edsel I didn’t mention the ford
ford edsel I didn’t mention the ford edsel but the ford edsel was not not
edsel but the ford edsel was not not
edsel but the ford edsel was not not today previously what I usually do I can
today previously what I usually do I can
today previously what I usually do I can give you an even more contemporary
give you an even more contemporary
give you an even more contemporary example cuz the ansel examples been
example cuz the ansel examples been
example cuz the ansel examples been beaten to death Saturn the only late
beaten to death Saturn the only late
beaten to death Saturn the only late 1980s early 1900s GM set up this company
1980s early 1900s GM set up this company
1980s early 1900s GM set up this company a different kind of car from a different
a different kind of car from a different
a different kind of car from a different kind of car company the idea was to have
kind of car company the idea was to have
kind of car company the idea was to have a fighter brand so Brandon would fight
a fighter brand so Brandon would fight
a fighter brand so Brandon would fight the imports particularly the Japanese it
the imports particularly the Japanese it
the imports particularly the Japanese it was built in separate plants they did
was built in separate plants they did
was built in separate plants they did things like when you went to pick your
things like when you went to pick your
things like when you went to pick your new car up was like the delivery of a
new car up was like the delivery of a
new car up was like the delivery of a baby with balloons yeah they treated
baby with balloons yeah they treated
baby with balloons yeah they treated people respectfully so and I had some my
people respectfully so and I had some my
people respectfully so and I had some my student resources on so well like when
student resources on so well like when
student resources on so well like when women would shocking
women would shocking
women would shocking 7 the car dealership he has to be
7 the car dealership he has to be
7 the car dealership he has to be treated you know not assaulted being
treated you know not assaulted being
treated you know not assaulted being honest with women and treating women the
honest with women and treating women the
honest with women and treating women the same way they would treat men
spontaneously Saturn owners formed
spontaneously Saturn owners formed groups that have annual picnics and
groups that have annual picnics and
groups that have annual picnics and safaris and that kind of thing the brand
safaris and that kind of thing the brand
safaris and that kind of thing the brand really had a strong loyal following even
really had a strong loyal following even
really had a strong loyal following even though the car was pretty lousy so he
though the car was pretty lousy so he
though the car was pretty lousy so he read car reviews for similar vehicles
read car reviews for similar vehicles
read car reviews for similar vehicles the Saturn usually came glanced it was
the Saturn usually came glanced it was
the Saturn usually came glanced it was plastic a noisy not very powerful it was
plastic a noisy not very powerful it was
plastic a noisy not very powerful it was was two years ago Jim shut the whole
was two years ago Jim shut the whole
was two years ago Jim shut the whole thing down and one of the reasons that
thing down and one of the reasons that
thing down and one of the reasons that the Saturn was a failure was they could
the Saturn was a failure was they could
the Saturn was a failure was they could never get their constant of control or
never get their constant of control or
never get their constant of control or at least their cost base was too high to
at least their cost base was too high to
at least their cost base was too high to begin with and so they couldn’t make
begin with and so they couldn’t make
begin with and so they couldn’t make money so a brand that resonated well
money so a brand that resonated well
money so a brand that resonated well with consumers died because of accosting
with consumers died because of accosting
with consumers died because of accosting situation that James costs including
situation that James costs including
situation that James costs including some buds legacy costs for pensions and
some buds legacy costs for pensions and
some buds legacy costs for pensions and all that kind of stuff that unions that
all that kind of stuff that unions that
all that kind of stuff that unions that negotiated we’re just too hot and they
negotiated we’re just too hot and they
negotiated we’re just too hot and they could never get the cost down so they
could never get the cost down so they
could never get the cost down so they could price the Saturn to effectively
could price the Saturn to effectively
could price the Saturn to effectively compete with the Japanese and ultimately
compete with the Japanese and ultimately
compete with the Japanese and ultimately than the Korean competition I want to
than the Korean competition I want to
than the Korean competition I want to talk about one more example and then
talk about one more example and then
talk about one more example and then we’re gonna take a break come back and
we’re gonna take a break come back and
we’re gonna take a break come back and just talk a bit more about New Coke
just talk a bit more about New Coke
just talk a bit more about New Coke since that is the anniversary so last
since that is the anniversary so last
since that is the anniversary so last year Netflix did what any CEO CTO any
year Netflix did what any CEO CTO any
year Netflix did what any CEO CTO any logical person would say was a smart
logical person would say was a smart
logical person would say was a smart move they basically said the futures and
move they basically said the futures and
move they basically said the futures and streaming yep so we’re going to spin off
streaming yep so we’re going to spin off
streaming yep so we’re going to spin off the old business of DVDs through the
the old business of DVDs through the
the old business of DVDs through the mail now they rebranded it as quick stir
mail now they rebranded it as quick stir
mail now they rebranded it as quick stir yep and basically net fixed Netflix
yep and basically net fixed Netflix
yep and basically net fixed Netflix would represent the future and you know
would represent the future and you know
would represent the future and you know if you look at this at arm’s length
if you look at this at arm’s length
if you look at this at arm’s length you’re like that makes sense i mean but
you’re like that makes sense i mean but
you’re like that makes sense i mean but much room but the company got decimated
much room but the company got decimated
much room but the company got decimated by consumers investors said there’s too
by consumers investors said there’s too
by consumers investors said there’s too much uncertainty and what was a 13
much uncertainty and what was a 13
much uncertainty and what was a 13 billion dollar stock i think ended up
billion dollar stock i think ended up
billion dollar stock i think ended up being you know like a four billion
being you know like a four billion
being you know like a four billion dollar stock at us they change the
dollar stock at us they change the
dollar stock at us they change the pricing strategy so yeah take a lose
pricing strategy so yeah take a lose
pricing strategy so yeah take a lose that i mean take us through the netflix
that i mean take us through the netflix
that i mean take us through the netflix episode is this a case of overtime they
episode is this a case of overtime they
episode is this a case of overtime they will be vindicated or is this just that
will be vindicated or is this just that
will be vindicated or is this just that everything went wrong was their foolish
everything went wrong was their foolish
everything went wrong was their foolish sort of marketing I don’t think
sort of marketing I don’t think
sort of marketing I don’t think everything went wrong they made a bad
everything went wrong they made a bad
everything went wrong they made a bad pricing decision people felt they’re
pricing decision people felt they’re
pricing decision people felt they’re being overcharged and that was that can
being overcharged and that was that can
being overcharged and that was that can a company that does something like that
a company that does something like that
a company that does something like that cover and the answer is absolutely yes
cover and the answer is absolutely yes
cover and the answer is absolutely yes Yuri jig your pricing strategy you stay
Yuri jig your pricing strategy you stay
Yuri jig your pricing strategy you stay out there with advertising that makes
out there with advertising that makes
out there with advertising that makes people feel good about the brand maybe
people feel good about the brand maybe
people feel good about the brand maybe you get people incentives and purchase
you get people incentives and purchase
you get people incentives and purchase bonuses to buy your product offset some
bonuses to buy your product offset some
bonuses to buy your product offset some of that opinion about your negative some
of that opinion about your negative some
of that opinion about your negative some that negative opinion about your pricing
that negative opinion about your pricing
that negative opinion about your pricing and over time you can overcome okay
and over time you can overcome okay
and over time you can overcome okay we’re going to take a short break we’re
we’re going to take a short break we’re
we’re going to take a short break we’re going to come back and focus a bit on
going to come back and focus a bit on
going to come back and focus a bit on New Coke all right back
”
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