welcome to the second installment of hip mojo show number 11 so now we’re going
mojo show number 11 so now we’re going
mojo show number 11 so now we’re going to switch gears and talk about whether
to switch gears and talk about whether
to switch gears and talk about whether or not marketers and advertisers should
or not marketers and advertisers should
or not marketers and advertisers should be publishers and basically be in the
be publishers and basically be in the
be publishers and basically be in the content business what do you think um
content business what do you think um
content business what do you think um you know it’s funny because for the last
you know it’s funny because for the last
you know it’s funny because for the last 23 years pretty much every social media
23 years pretty much every social media
23 years pretty much every social media douchebag and major content marketer has
douchebag and major content marketer has
douchebag and major content marketer has been saying just this marketers and
been saying just this marketers and
been saying just this marketers and advertisers have to become publishers
advertisers have to become publishers
advertisers have to become publishers and there’s pretty much two reasons one
and there’s pretty much two reasons one
and there’s pretty much two reasons one you actually got to get the audience’s
you actually got to get the audience’s
you actually got to get the audience’s attention like who looks at display ads
attention like who looks at display ads
attention like who looks at display ads anymore you want to get those eyeballs
anymore you want to get those eyeballs
anymore you want to get those eyeballs to its it’s more okay so there’s three
to its it’s more okay so there’s three
to its it’s more okay so there’s three reasons to it’s more interactive they
reasons to it’s more interactive they
reasons to it’s more interactive they actually engage with the content it’s
actually engage with the content it’s
actually engage with the content it’s great if they notice a banner but they
great if they notice a banner but they
great if they notice a banner but they don’t it doesn’t necessarily change
don’t it doesn’t necessarily change
don’t it doesn’t necessarily change their perceptions but three it actually
their perceptions but three it actually
their perceptions but three it actually builds community you can consistently
builds community you can consistently
builds community you can consistently put out content on a regular and
put out content on a regular and
put out content on a regular and consistent basis you know you you
consistent basis you know you you
consistent basis you know you you actually end up with a returning user
actually end up with a returning user
actually end up with a returning user basa and this kind of fosters brand
basa and this kind of fosters brand
basa and this kind of fosters brand loyalty before purchase even kicks off
loyalty before purchase even kicks off
loyalty before purchase even kicks off and I think we saw this with the old
and I think we saw this with the old
and I think we saw this with the old spice guy like that was the great thing
spice guy like that was the great thing
spice guy like that was the great thing and that’s not even old spice being an
and that’s not even old spice being an
and that’s not even old spice being an awesome publisher that’s their agency
awesome publisher that’s their agency
awesome publisher that’s their agency being an awesome publisher and being
being an awesome publisher and being
being an awesome publisher and being really smart so maybe to go back it’s
really smart so maybe to go back it’s
really smart so maybe to go back it’s not that marketers and advertisers
not that marketers and advertisers
not that marketers and advertisers should become publishers I think they
should become publishers I think they
should become publishers I think they need to hire agencies that know how to
need to hire agencies that know how to
need to hire agencies that know how to do publishing unless they they’re big
do publishing unless they they’re big
do publishing unless they they’re big and they want to actually build their
and they want to actually build their
and they want to actually build their own content team because you know
own content team because you know
own content team because you know firsthand you guys have a lot of people
firsthand you guys have a lot of people
firsthand you guys have a lot of people here working on video thousands valiums
here working on video thousands valiums
here working on video thousands valiums monkeys everywhere oh I think the reason
monkeys everywhere oh I think the reason
monkeys everywhere oh I think the reason why this came up was first off that you
why this came up was first off that you
why this came up was first off that you know you always look at the distribution
know you always look at the distribution
know you always look at the distribution versus content you know tug of war so to
versus content you know tug of war so to
versus content you know tug of war so to speak and I was thinking about this and
speak and I was thinking about this and
speak and I was thinking about this and to be fair one of our Facebook fans made
to be fair one of our Facebook fans made
to be fair one of our Facebook fans made a good comment saying that so long as
a good comment saying that so long as
a good comment saying that so long as advertisers by media based on CPM cost
advertisers by media based on CPM cost
advertisers by media based on CPM cost per thousands of impressions then it’s
per thousands of impressions then it’s
per thousands of impressions then it’s all about scale and the only companies
all about scale and the only companies
all about scale and the only companies that are going to be able to offer that
that are going to be able to offer that
that are going to be able to offer that kind of massive scale to advertisers are
kind of massive scale to advertisers are
kind of massive scale to advertisers are the aggregators the distribution sites
the aggregators the distribution sites
the aggregators the distribution sites because you could just basically instead
because you could just basically instead
because you could just basically instead of us killing ourselves to produce this
of us killing ourselves to produce this
of us killing ourselves to produce this great content you could just basically
great content you could just basically
great content you could just basically set up a dashboard and entice people to
set up a dashboard and entice people to
set up a dashboard and entice people to upload their content and then you get
upload their content and then you get
upload their content and then you get big numbers leverage that to advertisers
big numbers leverage that to advertisers
big numbers leverage that to advertisers and then you get the revenues you’re in
and then you get the revenues you’re in
and then you get the revenues you’re in business voila so I start off with
business voila so I start off with
business voila so I start off with saying thinking yeah it’s true though
saying thinking yeah it’s true though
saying thinking yeah it’s true though that if you could basically convince
that if you could basically convince
that if you could basically convince marketers to buy ads I’m not
marketers to buy ads I’m not
marketers to buy ads I’m not recommending a black box pricing model
recommending a black box pricing model
recommending a black box pricing model but if you could convince marketers and
but if you could convince marketers and
but if you could convince marketers and advertisers that they should maybe get
advertisers that they should maybe get
advertisers that they should maybe get into funding content as a fixed price
into funding content as a fixed price
into funding content as a fixed price and then as a variable price go for the
and then as a variable price go for the
and then as a variable price go for the reach and the display and and the sort
reach and the display and and the sort
reach and the display and and the sort of you know buying media to them promote
of you know buying media to them promote
of you know buying media to them promote that I think that would give content
that I think that would give content
that I think that would give content producers quite an advantage others
producers quite an advantage others
producers quite an advantage others drawbacks to that such as that it’s
drawbacks to that such as that it’s
drawbacks to that such as that it’s expensive to do that you need a big
expensive to do that you need a big
expensive to do that you need a big sales force it takes a lot of time but
sales force it takes a lot of time but
sales force it takes a lot of time but but then I said okay well let’s assume
but then I said okay well let’s assume
but then I said okay well let’s assume you want to get into this content you
you want to get into this content you
you want to get into this content you know we’re not the first to say this
know we’re not the first to say this
know we’re not the first to say this Geoff Ramsey who’s the CEO of emarketer
Geoff Ramsey who’s the CEO of emarketer
Geoff Ramsey who’s the CEO of emarketer who’s in a good position to talk about
who’s in a good position to talk about
who’s in a good position to talk about you know both forecasts of video and and
you know both forecasts of video and and
you know both forecasts of video and and advertising and how that you know what
advertising and how that you know what
advertising and how that you know what incentives should be given to marketers
incentives should be given to marketers
incentives should be given to marketers to spend more he had a he published this
to spend more he had a he published this
to spend more he had a he published this book earlier this summer and he says
book earlier this summer and he says
book earlier this summer and he says three things he says one that marketers
three things he says one that marketers
three things he says one that marketers should be in the content business too he
should be in the content business too he
should be in the content business too he says that marketers unless I
says that marketers unless I
says that marketers unless I misunderstood he says the marketer
misunderstood he says the marketer
misunderstood he says the marketer should produce the content although as
should produce the content although as
should produce the content although as an asterisks it could be that you could
an asterisks it could be that you could
an asterisks it could be that you could still do it by way of an agency or even
still do it by way of an agency or even
still do it by way of an agency or even outsource a company like watchmojo or
outsource a company like watchmojo or
outsource a company like watchmojo or whoever to produce that content or we in
whoever to produce that content or we in
whoever to produce that content or we in the past have done work for mcdonald’s
the past have done work for mcdonald’s
the past have done work for mcdonald’s and coca-cola where we basically just
and coca-cola where we basically just
and coca-cola where we basically just licensed them our videos branded to
licensed them our videos branded to
licensed them our videos branded to watch module and they just use them on
watch module and they just use them on
watch module and they just use them on their site it was easy legal didn’t get
their site it was easy legal didn’t get
their site it was easy legal didn’t get involved well they did but not as much
involved well they did but not as much
involved well they did but not as much as if they got to script everything and
as if they got to script everything and
as if they got to script everything and whatnot but the third thing that Geoff
whatnot but the third thing that Geoff
whatnot but the third thing that Geoff Ramsey says that I want to focus on and
Ramsey says that I want to focus on and
Ramsey says that I want to focus on and it’s get your thoughts is he says the
it’s get your thoughts is he says the
it’s get your thoughts is he says the content has to be useful the old spice
content has to be useful the old spice
content has to be useful the old spice thing was super successful it grew sales
thing was super successful it grew sales
thing was super successful it grew sales by a hundred seven percent so the fact
by a hundred seven percent so the fact
by a hundred seven percent so the fact that it was funny and entertaining and
that it was funny and entertaining and
that it was funny and entertaining and irreverent actually worked but I will
irreverent actually worked but I will
irreverent actually worked but I will argue that that’s the exception and not
argue that that’s the exception and not
argue that that’s the exception and not the rule take a look at Chrysler
the rule take a look at Chrysler
the rule take a look at Chrysler Chrysler which is not owned by Fiat they
Chrysler which is not owned by Fiat they
Chrysler which is not owned by Fiat they did two campaigns one was the whole made
did two campaigns one was the whole made
did two campaigns one was the whole made from made in Detroit imported from
from made in Detroit imported from
from made in Detroit imported from Detroit with it which actually work
Detroit with it which actually work
Detroit with it which actually work because it’s stressed that you know
because it’s stressed that you know
because it’s stressed that you know there’s quality here and it’s this is an
there’s quality here and it’s this is an
there’s quality here and it’s this is an american-made car even though that cars
american-made car even though that cars
american-made car even though that cars actually made in Ontario but that’s a
actually made in Ontario but that’s a
actually made in Ontario but that’s a separate point Canada but the second
separate point Canada but the second
separate point Canada but the second thing is then they did something for fee
thing is then they did something for fee
thing is then they did something for fee at around a Jennifer Lopez music video
at around a Jennifer Lopez music video
at around a Jennifer Lopez music video which people said what the hell does
which people said what the hell does
which people said what the hell does this have to do with the cars the
this have to do with the cars the
this have to do with the cars the dealers were unhappy their CEO who now
dealers were unhappy their CEO who now
dealers were unhappy their CEO who now runs the CEO of Chrysler who also runs
runs the CEO of Chrysler who also runs
runs the CEO of Chrysler who also runs the marketing for all a fee at this
the marketing for all a fee at this
the marketing for all a fee at this French gentleman was brilliant he says
French gentleman was brilliant he says
French gentleman was brilliant he says listen we need to start getting into the
listen we need to start getting into the
listen we need to start getting into the dialogue even if people criticize us for
dialogue even if people criticize us for
dialogue even if people criticize us for the jlo video at least we’re top being
the jlo video at least we’re top being
the jlo video at least we’re top being talked about so I give them some benefit
talked about so I give them some benefit
talked about so I give them some benefit of the doubt but do you think it’s
of the doubt but do you think it’s
of the doubt but do you think it’s more important to have funny irreverent
more important to have funny irreverent
more important to have funny irreverent scripted entertainment kind of you know
scripted entertainment kind of you know
scripted entertainment kind of you know content or more useful content that’s
content or more useful content that’s
content or more useful content that’s the funny irreverent stuff is a much
the funny irreverent stuff is a much
the funny irreverent stuff is a much bigger gamble of course big gambles come
bigger gamble of course big gambles come
bigger gamble of course big gambles come greater rewards the chances though like
greater rewards the chances though like
greater rewards the chances though like if you look at the Old Spice campaign
if you look at the Old Spice campaign
if you look at the Old Spice campaign you had a whatever agency did it I don’t
you had a whatever agency did it I don’t
you had a whatever agency did it I don’t remember you had a particularly talented
remember you had a particularly talented
remember you had a particularly talented team of writers who got lucky was a
team of writers who got lucky was a
team of writers who got lucky was a really good actor and like there was
really good actor and like there was
really good actor and like there was just a lot of chemistry and elements
just a lot of chemistry and elements
just a lot of chemistry and elements generally it’s much more cost effective
generally it’s much more cost effective
generally it’s much more cost effective and much more clearly tied to your ROI
and much more clearly tied to your ROI
and much more clearly tied to your ROI if you actually produce useful content
if you actually produce useful content
if you actually produce useful content you know yeah I’ll give you an example
you know yeah I’ll give you an example
you know yeah I’ll give you an example of you sell fashion accessories and
of you sell fashion accessories and
of you sell fashion accessories and you’re constantly putting out content in
you’re constantly putting out content in
you’re constantly putting out content in your blog about like how to accessorize
your blog about like how to accessorize
your blog about like how to accessorize and that kind of thing you’re actually
and that kind of thing you’re actually
and that kind of thing you’re actually going to bring in a kind of potential
going to bring in a kind of potential
going to bring in a kind of potential users that are that could become
users that are that could become
users that are that could become customers yeah I mean we’ve had
customers yeah I mean we’ve had
customers yeah I mean we’ve had discussions for example with with
discussions for example with with
discussions for example with with various companies in that cat in that
various companies in that cat in that
various companies in that cat in that like category and like L’Oreal is one
like category and like L’Oreal is one
like category and like L’Oreal is one where you know we tell them let’s look
where you know we tell them let’s look
where you know we tell them let’s look at our video content on fashion and
at our video content on fashion and
at our video content on fashion and beauty tips and they’re like that’s
beauty tips and they’re like that’s
beauty tips and they’re like that’s great but they’ll say you know we want
great but they’ll say you know we want
great but they’ll say you know we want to be creating that whether they created
to be creating that whether they created
to be creating that whether they created in-house or a third party or even in
in-house or a third party or even in
in-house or a third party or even in production houses it’s sort of not that
production houses it’s sort of not that
production houses it’s sort of not that the issue i would say that exactly it’s
the issue i would say that exactly it’s
the issue i would say that exactly it’s not so much the success sort of the
not so much the success sort of the
not so much the success sort of the determinant of success is not who
determinant of success is not who
determinant of success is not who produces it if it’s brandon to the
produces it if it’s brandon to the
produces it if it’s brandon to the client if it’s branded to a third party
client if it’s branded to a third party
client if it’s branded to a third party if it’s unbranded I think it’s more how
if it’s unbranded I think it’s more how
if it’s unbranded I think it’s more how do the videos support your objective
do the videos support your objective
do the videos support your objective right I personally think if you’re like
right I personally think if you’re like
right I personally think if you’re like an alcohol company sure you know look at
an alcohol company sure you know look at
an alcohol company sure you know look at myspace myspace back in the day when
myspace myspace back in the day when
myspace myspace back in the day when Rupert Murdoch was like we want to kill
Rupert Murdoch was like we want to kill
Rupert Murdoch was like we want to kill google youtube and all that they put a
google youtube and all that they put a
google youtube and all that they put a lot of money in scripted entertainment
lot of money in scripted entertainment
lot of money in scripted entertainment it didn’t really make any difference I
it didn’t really make any difference I
it didn’t really make any difference I will argue maybe I’m a bit naive that if
will argue maybe I’m a bit naive that if
will argue maybe I’m a bit naive that if you actually have useful content you’re
you actually have useful content you’re
you actually have useful content you’re right it’s less sexy but it’s less of a
right it’s less sexy but it’s less of a
right it’s less sexy but it’s less of a gamble and over time it’s gonna just
gamble and over time it’s gonna just
gamble and over time it’s gonna just it’s easier to market it’s easier to get
it’s easier to market it’s easier to get
it’s easier to market it’s easier to get traction it’s much it’s much much
traction it’s much it’s much much
traction it’s much it’s much much cheaper to produce because you’re
cheaper to produce because you’re
cheaper to produce because you’re actually working for the mines that you
actually working for the mines that you
actually working for the mines that you already have even if you have an agency
already have even if you have an agency
already have even if you have an agency actually producing the content the ideas
actually producing the content the ideas
actually producing the content the ideas and themselves are coming from you you
and themselves are coming from you you
and themselves are coming from you you know like a guy who makes deodorant
know like a guy who makes deodorant
know like a guy who makes deodorant would have never thought yeah get a
would have never thought yeah get a
would have never thought yeah get a football player and put them in the
football player and put them in the
football player and put them in the shower like well maybe baby but the pens
shower like well maybe baby but the pens
shower like well maybe baby but the pens go anyways let’s not even go there I
go anyways let’s not even go there I
go anyways let’s not even go there I think a lot of the issues is you get a
think a lot of the issues is you get a
think a lot of the issues is you get a guy may be at an agency or in the
guy may be at an agency or in the
guy may be at an agency or in the marketing department that comes up with
marketing department that comes up with
marketing department that comes up with a nugget you know this wisdom this light
a nugget you know this wisdom this light
a nugget you know this wisdom this light bulb goes up and he throws it out and
bulb goes up and he throws it out and
bulb goes up and he throws it out and they’re like yeah great it’s irreverent
they’re like yeah great it’s irreverent
they’re like yeah great it’s irreverent it’s funny and then it goes up the chain
it’s funny and then it goes up the chain
it’s funny and then it goes up the chain of command to the CMO
of command to the CMO
of command to the CMO the vp of marketing or the CFO or the
the vp of marketing or the CFO or the
the vp of marketing or the CFO or the CEO and at some point they’re like why
CEO and at some point they’re like why
CEO and at some point they’re like why are we spending all this money if this
are we spending all this money if this
are we spending all this money if this doesn’t even have one mention of our
doesn’t even have one mention of our
doesn’t even have one mention of our brand and then it gets come back it
brand and then it gets come back it
brand and then it gets come back it comes back down and then it becomes an
comes back down and then it becomes an
comes back down and then it becomes an ad and then that’s not successful so I
ad and then that’s not successful so I
ad and then that’s not successful so I think what was good about the Old Spice
think what was good about the Old Spice
think what was good about the Old Spice was like they managed to make the Old
was like they managed to make the Old
was like they managed to make the Old Spice brand and end sort of product some
Spice brand and end sort of product some
Spice brand and end sort of product some kind of supporting cast or the star and
kind of supporting cast or the star and
kind of supporting cast or the star and all the guy was the star but but it
all the guy was the star but but it
all the guy was the star but but it wasn’t like a big sales pitch you know
wasn’t like a big sales pitch you know
wasn’t like a big sales pitch you know but but I again I think that’s the
but but I again I think that’s the
but but I again I think that’s the exception and not the rule but just to
exception and not the rule but just to
exception and not the rule but just to go back quickly one thing I did want to
go back quickly one thing I did want to
go back quickly one thing I did want to say about having useful like practical
say about having useful like practical
say about having useful like practical content is one it turns new customers
content is one it turns new customers
content is one it turns new customers into a potential return repeat customers
into a potential return repeat customers
into a potential return repeat customers because they keep coming back consuming
because they keep coming back consuming
because they keep coming back consuming the content finding new ways to you use
the content finding new ways to you use
the content finding new ways to you use and consume your products and to we can
and consume your products and to we can
and consume your products and to we can actually help with new customer
actually help with new customer
actually help with new customer acquisition and this is something I I
acquisition and this is something I I
acquisition and this is something I I tell clients all the time to produce
tell clients all the time to produce
tell clients all the time to produce this useful content is at the end of the
this useful content is at the end of the
this useful content is at the end of the day it totally helps your rankings in
day it totally helps your rankings in
day it totally helps your rankings in search and the great thing about a
search and the great thing about a
search and the great thing about a search user is that they’re they’re
search user is that they’re they’re
search user is that they’re they’re targeted by intention you know if you
targeted by intention you know if you
targeted by intention you know if you click on an ad on facebook that’s a huge
click on an ad on facebook that’s a huge
click on an ad on facebook that’s a huge step because you’re on facebook to
step because you’re on facebook to
step because you’re on facebook to socialize if you’re actually searching
socialize if you’re actually searching
socialize if you’re actually searching for tips on how to do something or tips
for tips on how to do something or tips
for tips on how to do something or tips on where to buy something you’re a
on where to buy something you’re a
on where to buy something you’re a little bit more engaged okay quick
little bit more engaged okay quick
little bit more engaged okay quick question before we go to lightning round
question before we go to lightning round
question before we go to lightning round do you think that branded content
do you think that branded content
do you think that branded content whether it’s useful or a reverend
whether it’s useful or a reverend
whether it’s useful or a reverend scripted entertainment do you think that
scripted entertainment do you think that
scripted entertainment do you think that it will really grow considerably and
it will really grow considerably and
it will really grow considerably and become material or is it still going to
become material or is it still going to
become material or is it still going to be all about pre-rolls because it’s easy
be all about pre-rolls because it’s easy
be all about pre-rolls because it’s easy you take a TV spot repurpose it cut it
you take a TV spot repurpose it cut it
you take a TV spot repurpose it cut it down to 15 seconds and blasted across
down to 15 seconds and blasted across
down to 15 seconds and blasted across the web I think you’ll probably see both
the web I think you’ll probably see both
the web I think you’ll probably see both you know at the end of the day you’re
you know at the end of the day you’re
you know at the end of the day you’re gonna have companies that are that are
gonna have companies that are that are
gonna have companies that are that are marketing savvy that have a good CMO in
marketing savvy that have a good CMO in
marketing savvy that have a good CMO in the position that knows how to you know
the position that knows how to you know
the position that knows how to you know keep up with trends and it the other day
keep up with trends and it the other day
keep up with trends and it the other day you’re gonna have guys who are a little
you’re gonna have guys who are a little
you’re gonna have guys who are a little bit you know negligent you’ve always had
bit you know negligent you’ve always had
bit you know negligent you’ve always had good marketing campaigns and bad ones so
good marketing campaigns and bad ones so
good marketing campaigns and bad ones so I think you’ll be able to see see a bit
I think you’ll be able to see see a bit
I think you’ll be able to see see a bit more both and even at the same time
more both and even at the same time
more both and even at the same time you’ll see bad examples of useful
you’ll see bad examples of useful
you’ll see bad examples of useful content being like oh if you really want
content being like oh if you really want
content being like oh if you really want to accessorize use our belt rather than
to accessorize use our belt rather than
to accessorize use our belt rather than use this kind of color but yeah I think
use this kind of color but yeah I think
use this kind of color but yeah I think you’re going to see more and more of
you’re going to see more and more of
you’re going to see more and more of that useful content coming up yeah I
that useful content coming up yeah I
that useful content coming up yeah I would say that you know not to sound
would say that you know not to sound
would say that you know not to sound Vince Lombardi ask but I think people in
Vince Lombardi ask but I think people in
Vince Lombardi ask but I think people in the advertising and video world are
the advertising and video world are
the advertising and video world are likewise video not growing a lot more
likewise video not growing a lot more
likewise video not growing a lot more and and the tricky thing is that well
and and the tricky thing is that well
and and the tricky thing is that well video will only grow if you do the hard
video will only grow if you do the hard
video will only grow if you do the hard things you know if you basically just
things you know if you basically just
things you know if you basically just you know go for the low-hanging fruit
you know go for the low-hanging fruit
you know go for the low-hanging fruit which is pre-rolls well obviously you’re
which is pre-rolls well obviously you’re
which is pre-rolls well obviously you’re going to get basic small results like
going to get basic small results like
going to get basic small results like you become successful when you do the
you become successful when you do the
you become successful when you do the things that other people don’t want to
things that other people don’t want to
things that other people don’t want to do you become successful when you do the
do you become successful when you do the
do you become successful when you do the hard work that others say that seems
hard work that others say that seems
hard work that others say that seems like too much work and I hate to say it
like too much work and I hate to say it
like too much work and I hate to say it content is that could producing content
content is that could producing content
content is that could producing content whether it’s informational entertaining
whether it’s informational entertaining
whether it’s informational entertaining or advertorial is a lot of work and I
or advertorial is a lot of work and I
or advertorial is a lot of work and I think if Mark builds equity if you’re
think if Mark builds equity if you’re
think if Mark builds equity if you’re building your own content it does build
building your own content it does build
building your own content it does build equity you know it’s more than showing
equity you know it’s more than showing
equity you know it’s more than showing shoving in a pre-roll that stops running
shoving in a pre-roll that stops running
shoving in a pre-roll that stops running after the campaign that content
after the campaign that content
after the campaign that content continues to exist somewhere on your
continues to exist somewhere on your
continues to exist somewhere on your site it continues to bring people in and
site it continues to bring people in and
site it continues to bring people in and it continues to be referred to for years
it continues to be referred to for years
it continues to be referred to for years to come yep all right we’re gonna take a
to come yep all right we’re gonna take a
to come yep all right we’re gonna take a short break come back with lightning
short break come back with lightning
short break come back with lightning round right after the break
”
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