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Mediating Civic Institution in an Age of Fracture | Dave Kamper | TEDxGustavusAdolphusCollege


I’m a historian and also an Oregon

I’m a historian and also an Oregon movement I’ve been doing that for about

movement I’ve been doing that for about

movement I’ve been doing that for about 20 you

20 you

20 you trying to build unions around the

trying to build unions around the

trying to build unions around the country as this chart will show I’ve

country as this chart will show I’ve

country as this chart will show I’ve been incredibly successful in this

been incredibly successful in this

been incredibly successful in this endeavor but when we do it right what we

endeavor but when we do it right what we

endeavor but when we do it right what we do well as we build community and that’s

do well as we build community and that’s

do well as we build community and that’s what I want to talk about tonight I want

what I want to talk about tonight I want

what I want to talk about tonight I want to talk about how we can move past fake

to talk about how we can move past fake

to talk about how we can move past fake news and embrace civility I want to talk

news and embrace civility I want to talk

news and embrace civility I want to talk about how we could find ourselves some

about how we could find ourselves some

about how we could find ourselves some hope in a divided world I want to talk

hope in a divided world I want to talk

hope in a divided world I want to talk how we can make things better and one of

how we can make things better and one of

how we can make things better and one of the things that I think is facing us

the things that I think is facing us

the things that I think is facing us today is a challenge is a decline in

today is a challenge is a decline in

today is a challenge is a decline in mediating Civic institutions let me say

mediating Civic institutions let me say

mediating Civic institutions let me say a little bit what I mean about that to

a little bit what I mean about that to

a little bit what I mean about that to be ridiculously simplistic the world as

be ridiculously simplistic the world as

be ridiculously simplistic the world as it is and the world as we see it aren’t

it is and the world as we see it aren’t

it is and the world as we see it aren’t the same thing right we look at the

the same thing right we look at the

the same thing right we look at the world through lenses through mediums

world through lenses through mediums

world through lenses through mediums that filter what is to get where we are

that filter what is to get where we are

that filter what is to get where we are and these mediums and of course you know

and these mediums and of course you know

and these mediums and of course you know the latin plural of medium is media are

the latin plural of medium is media are

the latin plural of medium is media are no longer serving a shared civic purpose

no longer serving a shared civic purpose

no longer serving a shared civic purpose like they used to they are no longer

like they used to they are no longer

like they used to they are no longer serving a shared civic purpose that in

serving a shared civic purpose that in

serving a shared civic purpose that in most of human history we’ve been able to

most of human history we’ve been able to

most of human history we’ve been able to rely on if we can go back in time for

rely on if we can go back in time for

rely on if we can go back in time for example in the Middle Ages talking about

example in the Middle Ages talking about

example in the Middle Ages talking about the church the Pope and kings in the

the church the Pope and kings in the

the church the Pope and kings in the Middle Ages and Middle Ages Europe used

Middle Ages and Middle Ages Europe used

Middle Ages and Middle Ages Europe used to battle over who got to a point the

to battle over who got to a point the

to battle over who got to a point the priests because the priest stood up in

priests because the priest stood up in

priests because the priest stood up in front of congregation and told you how

front of congregation and told you how

front of congregation and told you how to understand the world think of the

to understand the world think of the

to understand the world think of the power of that in the Civil War Abraham

power of that in the Civil War Abraham

power of that in the Civil War Abraham Lincoln who’s everybody’s favorite

Lincoln who’s everybody’s favorite

Lincoln who’s everybody’s favorite president and rightly so nonetheless had

president and rightly so nonetheless had

president and rightly so nonetheless had to shut down 300 different newspapers

to shut down 300 different newspapers

to shut down 300 different newspapers because they weren’t mediating the story

because they weren’t mediating the story

because they weren’t mediating the story of the civil war in a manner that

of the civil war in a manner that

of the civil war in a manner that benefited national unity in Vietnam

benefited national unity in Vietnam

benefited national unity in Vietnam after the Tet Offensive Lyndon Johnson

after the Tet Offensive Lyndon Johnson

after the Tet Offensive Lyndon Johnson was heard to say if I’ve lost Walter

was heard to say if I’ve lost Walter

was heard to say if I’ve lost Walter Cronkite I’ve lost America I’d ask you

Cronkite I’ve lost America I’d ask you

Cronkite I’ve lost America I’d ask you for a moment is there anyone in America

for a moment is there anyone in America

for a moment is there anyone in America today who has that kind of stature or a

today who has that kind of stature or a

today who has that kind of stature or a president would say if I’ve lost this

president would say if I’ve lost this

president would say if I’ve lost this person I’ve lost America I don’t think

person I’ve lost America I don’t think

person I’ve lost America I don’t think there is I don’t think there is any more

there is I don’t think there is any more

there is I don’t think there is any more and when President Obama stepped down

and when President Obama stepped down

and when President Obama stepped down from office he said he wanted to see the

from office he said he wanted to see the

from office he said he wanted to see the press curate the news

press curate the news

press curate the news and this is what he was talking about

and this is what he was talking about

and this is what he was talking about and I appreciate the sentiment but I say

and I appreciate the sentiment but I say

and I appreciate the sentiment but I say good riddance I say good riddance we are

good riddance I say good riddance we are

good riddance I say good riddance we are in a democratic society we are

in a democratic society we are

in a democratic society we are individuals we should not be looking for

individuals we should not be looking for

individuals we should not be looking for hierarchies we should not be looking for

hierarchies we should not be looking for

hierarchies we should not be looking for more Cronkite’s we should not care

more Cronkite’s we should not care

more Cronkite’s we should not care whether or not we’re all sitting down at

whether or not we’re all sitting down at

whether or not we’re all sitting down at the same time in front of the same

the same time in front of the same

the same time in front of the same television sets to figure out who shot

television sets to figure out who shot

television sets to figure out who shot jr we are we are better than that as a

jr we are we are better than that as a

jr we are we are better than that as a society and what we want to do if we

society and what we want to do if we

society and what we want to do if we want to communicate with each other

want to communicate with each other

want to communicate with each other through each other’s eyes it’s fall back

through each other’s eyes it’s fall back

through each other’s eyes it’s fall back on the oldest means of communicating

on the oldest means of communicating

on the oldest means of communicating that we have the oldest means of

that we have the oldest means of

that we have the oldest means of creating mediating civic institutions

creating mediating civic institutions

creating mediating civic institutions conversation and the challenge here is

conversation and the challenge here is

conversation and the challenge here is that conversation is you and I practice

that conversation is you and I practice

that conversation is you and I practice it is not well suited for this purpose

it is not well suited for this purpose

it is not well suited for this purpose we’ve lost track of the art of

we’ve lost track of the art of

we’ve lost track of the art of conversation in many ways but it is

conversation in many ways but it is

conversation in many ways but it is possible to do things differently it is

possible to do things differently it is

possible to do things differently it is possible to make conversation itself a

possible to make conversation itself a

possible to make conversation itself a civic institution we in the labour

civic institution we in the labour

civic institution we in the labour movement do this and this is why I’m

movement do this and this is why I’m

movement do this and this is why I’m going to draw upon my experience as a

going to draw upon my experience as a

going to draw upon my experience as a labor organizer to talk with you about

labor organizer to talk with you about

labor organizer to talk with you about how we use conversation to build

how we use conversation to build

how we use conversation to build institutions now some of my colleagues

institutions now some of my colleagues

institutions now some of my colleagues called an individual meeting or a

called an individual meeting or a

called an individual meeting or a one-on-one I like the term organizing

one-on-one I like the term organizing

one-on-one I like the term organizing conversation an organizing conversation

conversation an organizing conversation

conversation an organizing conversation is what I do when I knock on someone’s

is what I do when I knock on someone’s

is what I do when I knock on someone’s door to ask them if they want to join a

door to ask them if they want to join a

door to ask them if they want to join a union it’s what I do if someone is a

union it’s what I do if someone is a

union it’s what I do if someone is a leader in an organization I want to ask

leader in an organization I want to ask

leader in an organization I want to ask them to step up it’s what I do when

them to step up it’s what I do when

them to step up it’s what I do when someone’s having trouble and I need to

someone’s having trouble and I need to

someone’s having trouble and I need to sit down and figure out what’s going on

sit down and figure out what’s going on

sit down and figure out what’s going on with them the American labor movement as

with them the American labor movement as

with them the American labor movement as an institution is built on a foundation

an institution is built on a foundation

an institution is built on a foundation and maintained on a foundation of

and maintained on a foundation of

and maintained on a foundation of millions and millions of individual

millions and millions of individual

millions and millions of individual organizing conversations so let me talk

organizing conversations so let me talk

organizing conversations so let me talk a little bit about how a labor movements

a little bit about how a labor movements

a little bit about how a labor movements organizing conversation is different

organizing conversation is different

organizing conversation is different from the way you and I think about

from the way you and I think about

from the way you and I think about regular conversation first it’s it’s

regular conversation first it’s it’s

regular conversation first it’s it’s public and I don’t mean by that that

public and I don’t mean by that that

public and I don’t mean by that that we’re airing dirty laundry or sharing

we’re airing dirty laundry or sharing

we’re airing dirty laundry or sharing secrets but what I mean is we’re seeking

secrets but what I mean is we’re seeking

secrets but what I mean is we’re seeking a public relationship with people we’re

a public relationship with people we’re

a public relationship with people we’re seeking a public relationship with

seeking a public relationship with

seeking a public relationship with people inviting them into civil society

people inviting them into civil society

people inviting them into civil society through the media

through the media

through the media of conversation a second element of an

of conversation a second element of an

of conversation a second element of an organizing conversation is that it’s

organizing conversation is that it’s

organizing conversation is that it’s intentional we go into a conversation

intentional we go into a conversation

intentional we go into a conversation knowing what we’re going to say to whom

knowing what we’re going to say to whom

knowing what we’re going to say to whom we’re going to say where and when we’re

we’re going to say where and when we’re

we’re going to say where and when we’re going to say it and what our goals are

going to say it and what our goals are

going to say it and what our goals are we don’t do that a lot with conversation

we don’t do that a lot with conversation

we don’t do that a lot with conversation we do it in writing we do it with

we do it in writing we do it with

we do it in writing we do it with speeches and we do it in conversations

speeches and we do it in conversations

speeches and we do it in conversations where there’s a power dynamic right if

where there’s a power dynamic right if

where there’s a power dynamic right if you’re going to ask your boss for a

you’re going to ask your boss for a

you’re going to ask your boss for a raise you plan that when I asked my wife

raise you plan that when I asked my wife

raise you plan that when I asked my wife to marry me I planned that out but when

to marry me I planned that out but when

to marry me I planned that out but when there’s not a power dynamic winner is

there’s not a power dynamic winner is

there’s not a power dynamic winner is not an urgency of personal gain we don’t

not an urgency of personal gain we don’t

not an urgency of personal gain we don’t often out we often aren’t intentional in

often out we often aren’t intentional in

often out we often aren’t intentional in having conversations a third element of

having conversations a third element of

having conversations a third element of an organizing conversation is that it

an organizing conversation is that it

an organizing conversation is that it involves exploration without argument as

involves exploration without argument as

involves exploration without argument as everybody knows argument is the death

everybody knows argument is the death

everybody knows argument is the death trap of conversation you all have been

trap of conversation you all have been

trap of conversation you all have been in that place where you have started an

in that place where you have started an

in that place where you have started an argument and you know even if you’re a

argument and you know even if you’re a

argument and you know even if you’re a hundred percent right and there are a

hundred percent right and there are a

hundred percent right and there are a hundred percent wrong they’re never

hundred percent wrong they’re never

hundred percent wrong they’re never going to say it and if you’re a hundred

going to say it and if you’re a hundred

going to say it and if you’re a hundred percent wrong and they’re one hundred

percent wrong and they’re one hundred

percent wrong and they’re one hundred percent right you’re never going to say

percent right you’re never going to say

percent right you’re never going to say it because you get your back up and once

it because you get your back up and once

it because you get your back up and once you get your back up and once you stop

you get your back up and once you stop

you get your back up and once you stop engaging and stop listening you’re not

engaging and stop listening you’re not

engaging and stop listening you’re not going anywhere so how do we thread the

going anywhere so how do we thread the

going anywhere so how do we thread the needle of having a purposeful

needle of having a purposeful

needle of having a purposeful conversation that does something to

conversation that does something to

conversation that does something to engage people without getting stuck into

engage people without getting stuck into

engage people without getting stuck into an argument what we do what we teach as

an argument what we do what we teach as

an argument what we do what we teach as organizers is identifying people

organizers is identifying people

organizers is identifying people self-interest now don’t mistake this for

self-interest now don’t mistake this for

self-interest now don’t mistake this for selfishness or self-centeredness those

selfishness or self-centeredness those

selfishness or self-centeredness those are two very different things

are two very different things

are two very different things self-interest is a natural state of

self-interest is a natural state of

self-interest is a natural state of being we all have it it’s an answer to

being we all have it it’s an answer to

being we all have it it’s an answer to the question what makes you you what

the question what makes you you what

the question what makes you you what makes you tick that’s the answer to your

makes you tick that’s the answer to your

makes you tick that’s the answer to your self-interest when you talk to someone

self-interest when you talk to someone

self-interest when you talk to someone you ask them what they do for a living

you ask them what they do for a living

you ask them what they do for a living you might ask them why did you get into

you might ask them why did you get into

you might ask them why did you get into that and they’ll answer the question in

that and they’ll answer the question in

that and they’ll answer the question in the labor movement we asked a step

the labor movement we asked a step

the labor movement we asked a step deeper in an organizing conversation we

deeper in an organizing conversation we

deeper in an organizing conversation we asked a step deeper what makes you the

asked a step deeper what makes you the

asked a step deeper what makes you the kind of person who did that now that’s a

kind of person who did that now that’s a

kind of person who did that now that’s a transgressive question right it pushes

transgressive question right it pushes

transgressive question right it pushes someone to answer more than they might

someone to answer more than they might

someone to answer more than they might want to it pushes them a little deeper

want to it pushes them a little deeper

want to it pushes them a little deeper but that’s what we need to do to have

but that’s what we need to do to have

but that’s what we need to do to have engagement in this society

engagement in this society

engagement in this society we need to have engagement that goes

we need to have engagement that goes

we need to have engagement that goes deeper right now the mediators that we

deeper right now the mediators that we

deeper right now the mediators that we have in our society are mostly

have in our society are mostly

have in our society are mostly manifestations of our self-interests but

manifestations of our self-interests but

manifestations of our self-interests but don’t dig into it we might find a

don’t dig into it we might find a

don’t dig into it we might find a Facebook meme that we really think is

Facebook meme that we really think is

Facebook meme that we really think is funny and it may speak to our

funny and it may speak to our

funny and it may speak to our self-interest but in no way tries to

self-interest but in no way tries to

self-interest but in no way tries to address how we got that self-interest or

address how we got that self-interest or

address how we got that self-interest or where that came from and so we ask we

where that came from and so we ask we

where that came from and so we ask we ask questions a lot of the lines of how

ask questions a lot of the lines of how

ask questions a lot of the lines of how did you get to be the way you got to be

did you get to be the way you got to be

did you get to be the way you got to be what are you the kind of person who does

what are you the kind of person who does

what are you the kind of person who does that that’s how we build deep

that that’s how we build deep

that that’s how we build deep conversations in self interest in the

conversations in self interest in the

conversations in self interest in the American labor movement the way I know

American labor movement the way I know

American labor movement the way I know I’ve really gotten through to somebody

I’ve really gotten through to somebody

I’ve really gotten through to somebody is when they say to me no one’s ever

is when they say to me no one’s ever

is when they say to me no one’s ever asked me that before because once you

asked me that before because once you

asked me that before because once you get to that point then that person

get to that point then that person

get to that point then that person starts thinking and then that

starts thinking and then that

starts thinking and then that conversation stops being a tactic and it

conversation stops being a tactic and it

conversation stops being a tactic and it becomes something that has institutional

becomes something that has institutional

becomes something that has institutional heft because at that moment a

heft because at that moment a

heft because at that moment a conversation becomes mediating and once

conversation becomes mediating and once

conversation becomes mediating and once people start media once it starts

people start media once it starts

people start media once it starts mediating people start to think they

mediating people start to think they

mediating people start to think they start to examine they start to

start to examine they start to

start to examine they start to deliberate now the Center for

deliberate now the Center for

deliberate now the Center for deliberative democracy in Stanford at

deliberative democracy in Stanford at

deliberative democracy in Stanford at Stanford University has been working on

Stanford University has been working on

Stanford University has been working on this for 20 years and I’m going to give

this for 20 years and I’m going to give

this for 20 years and I’m going to give a really brief example of what they do

a really brief example of what they do

a really brief example of what they do what they do is they’ll take a group of

what they do is they’ll take a group of

what they do is they’ll take a group of people and the first half they’ll call

people and the first half they’ll call

people and the first half they’ll call on the phone and ask a poll a polling

on the phone and ask a poll a polling

on the phone and ask a poll a polling question on a public policy issue just

question on a public policy issue just

question on a public policy issue just like any other poll that you get the

like any other poll that you get the

like any other poll that you get the other half they’ll invite to a weekend

other half they’ll invite to a weekend

other half they’ll invite to a weekend forum where they listen to experts

forum where they listen to experts

forum where they listen to experts they’ll talk to each other they’ll read

they’ll talk to each other they’ll read

they’ll talk to each other they’ll read the written materials they will

the written materials they will

the written materials they will deliberate every time they do this every

deliberate every time they do this every

deliberate every time they do this every time the Center for deliberative

time the Center for deliberative

time the Center for deliberative democracy runs this experiment people

democracy runs this experiment people

democracy runs this experiment people end up seeing the world on shared terms

end up seeing the world on shared terms

end up seeing the world on shared terms in 2007 they did an experiment in Texas

in 2007 they did an experiment in Texas

in 2007 they did an experiment in Texas Texas where they wanted to know people’s

Texas where they wanted to know people’s

Texas where they wanted to know people’s responsiveness to whether or not they

responsiveness to whether or not they

responsiveness to whether or not they would want pay more on their energy bill

would want pay more on their energy bill

would want pay more on their energy bill for wind and solar energy so the people

for wind and solar energy so the people

for wind and solar energy so the people that they just called on the phone and

that they just called on the phone and

that they just called on the phone and asked fifty two percent said they would

asked fifty two percent said they would

asked fifty two percent said they would put and pay more on their electric bill

put and pay more on their electric bill

put and pay more on their electric bill for wind and solar energy but the group

for wind and solar energy but the group

for wind and solar energy but the group that they put in a forum when they

that they put in a forum when they

that they put in a forum when they deliberated with each other 80

deliberated with each other 80

deliberated with each other 80 four percent this is Texas we call oil

four percent this is Texas we call oil

four percent this is Texas we call oil Texas T right this is what we think of

Texas T right this is what we think of

Texas T right this is what we think of when we think of Texas in yet when they

when we think of Texas in yet when they

when we think of Texas in yet when they had a chance when they had a chance to

had a chance when they had a chance to

had a chance when they had a chance to shed themselves of the inhibiting

shed themselves of the inhibiting

shed themselves of the inhibiting mediators that told them if your fort I

mediators that told them if your fort I

mediators that told them if your fort I have to be against it when they allowed

have to be against it when they allowed

have to be against it when they allowed their own rational minds to make the

their own rational minds to make the

their own rational minds to make the decision they saw the world in shared

decision they saw the world in shared

decision they saw the world in shared terms and this is the final piece of

terms and this is the final piece of

terms and this is the final piece of what makes an organizing conversation

what makes an organizing conversation

what makes an organizing conversation important a deep and abiding faith in

important a deep and abiding faith in

important a deep and abiding faith in the basic decency rationality honesty

the basic decency rationality honesty

the basic decency rationality honesty and humanity of all people you’ve

and humanity of all people you’ve

and humanity of all people you’ve probably guessed which side of the

probably guessed which side of the

probably guessed which side of the political spectrum I’m on many people on

political spectrum I’m on many people on

political spectrum I’m on many people on my side of the political spectrum like

my side of the political spectrum like

my side of the political spectrum like to think that people on the other side

to think that people on the other side

to think that people on the other side must be stupid or must be conned in some

must be stupid or must be conned in some

must be stupid or must be conned in some way there’s a whole book what’s the

way there’s a whole book what’s the

way there’s a whole book what’s the matter with Kansas by thomas frank which

matter with Kansas by thomas frank which

matter with Kansas by thomas frank which has as its premise that people on the

has as its premise that people on the

has as its premise that people on the other side of the political aisle the

other side of the political aisle the

other side of the political aisle the white working-class have been hoodwinked

white working-class have been hoodwinked

white working-class have been hoodwinked and they don’t know what their own

and they don’t know what their own

and they don’t know what their own self-interests are think of a

self-interests are think of a

self-interests are think of a condescension that’s in that concept

condescension that’s in that concept

condescension that’s in that concept think of the condescension behind saying

think of the condescension behind saying

think of the condescension behind saying how can they think that instead of

how can they think that instead of

how can they think that instead of thinking how can they think that and

thinking how can they think that and

thinking how can they think that and asking that question and allowing them

asking that question and allowing them

asking that question and allowing them to deliberate nothing in human history

to deliberate nothing in human history

to deliberate nothing in human history has ever happened without purposeful

has ever happened without purposeful

has ever happened without purposeful mediating conversation Malcolm Gladwell

mediating conversation Malcolm Gladwell

mediating conversation Malcolm Gladwell rights of the four young men really boys

rights of the four young men really boys

rights of the four young men really boys who led the first lunch counter sit-in

who led the first lunch counter sit-in

who led the first lunch counter sit-in in greensboro north carolina in 1960

in greensboro north carolina in 1960

in greensboro north carolina in 1960 these were four friends they lived near

these were four friends they lived near

these were four friends they lived near each other in college dorm rooms they

each other in college dorm rooms they

each other in college dorm rooms they spent months talking with each other

spent months talking with each other

spent months talking with each other about this they shared every interest

about this they shared every interest

about this they shared every interest they had with each other they worked on

they had with each other they worked on

they had with each other they worked on together they deliberated together they

together they deliberated together they

together they deliberated together they talked together and then they joined

talked together and then they joined

talked together and then they joined their self interest in a civic-minded

their self interest in a civic-minded

their self interest in a civic-minded act of civil disobedience conversation

act of civil disobedience conversation

act of civil disobedience conversation deliberation action idle chitchat isn’t

deliberation action idle chitchat isn’t

deliberation action idle chitchat isn’t going to change the world but a

going to change the world but a

going to change the world but a purposeful organizing conversation can

purposeful organizing conversation can

purposeful organizing conversation can move people to see their own best selves

move people to see their own best selves

move people to see their own best selves I encourage you to go out and practice

I encourage you to go out and practice

I encourage you to go out and practice this and help other people see the best

this and help other people see the best

this and help other people see the best selves they can be and build a better

selves they can be and build a better

selves they can be and build a better society thank

society thank

society thank you

you

you [Applause]

”

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