How we challenged NASA | Carl Nord & Simon Fors | TEDxGöteborg

a bright light is shining in your eyes a

a bright light is shining in your eyes a dozen live broadcasting cameras are

dozen live broadcasting cameras are

dozen live broadcasting cameras are pointing at your face the television

pointing at your face the television

pointing at your face the television host is just about to ask you the first

host is just about to ask you the first

host is just about to ask you the first question and your heart is pounding in

question and your heart is pounding in

question and your heart is pounding in your chest you stop for a moment and ask

your chest you stop for a moment and ask

your chest you stop for a moment and ask yourself how on earth did I end up here

yourself how on earth did I end up here

yourself how on earth did I end up here this was us – a few months ago we were

this was us – a few months ago we were

this was us – a few months ago we were two high school students supposedly

two high school students supposedly

two high school students supposedly proving NASA wrong in our final final

proving NASA wrong in our final final

proving NASA wrong in our final final science project about the aerodynamics

science project about the aerodynamics

science project about the aerodynamics of model rockets so what exactly did we

of model rockets so what exactly did we

of model rockets so what exactly did we examine what we looked at was the

examine what we looked at was the

examine what we looked at was the so-called drag coefficient of a mile

so-called drag coefficient of a mile

so-called drag coefficient of a mile rocket the drag coefficient describes

rocket the drag coefficient describes

rocket the drag coefficient describes our aerodynamic and Arbutus is heavily

our aerodynamic and Arbutus is heavily

our aerodynamic and Arbutus is heavily dependent on the shape of the object the

dependent on the shape of the object the

dependent on the shape of the object the drag coefficient is found in the so

drag coefficient is found in the so

drag coefficient is found in the so called drag equation where CD is the

called drag equation where CD is the

called drag equation where CD is the drag coefficient larger this number is

drag coefficient larger this number is

drag coefficient larger this number is the greater is their resistance and the

the greater is their resistance and the

the greater is their resistance and the lower this number is the weaker is the

lower this number is the weaker is the

lower this number is the weaker is the air resistance so in short to make a

air resistance so in short to make a

air resistance so in short to make a rocket fly higher and faster you want a

rocket fly higher and faster you want a

rocket fly higher and faster you want a low coefficient and what we found was at

low coefficient and what we found was at

low coefficient and what we found was at the NASA’s official webpage they stated

the NASA’s official webpage they stated

the NASA’s official webpage they stated and I quote a typical value for the drag

and I quote a typical value for the drag

and I quote a typical value for the drag coefficient of a mall rocket is point 75

coefficient of a mall rocket is point 75

coefficient of a mall rocket is point 75 and we thought this can’t be true if we

and we thought this can’t be true if we

and we thought this can’t be true if we put this into perspective consider a

put this into perspective consider a

put this into perspective consider a streamline sports car where the

streamline sports car where the

streamline sports car where the designers have tweaked and changed every

designers have tweaked and changed every

designers have tweaked and changed every millimeter to perfection to make the car

millimeter to perfection to make the car

millimeter to perfection to make the car go as fast as possible what does it have

go as fast as possible what does it have

go as fast as possible what does it have point 25 now consider a ball you can

point 25 now consider a ball you can

point 25 now consider a ball you can throw a ball but isn’t very aerodynamic

throw a ball but isn’t very aerodynamic

throw a ball but isn’t very aerodynamic what does it have point 15 so hang on

what does it have point 15 so hang on

what does it have point 15 so hang on since point 50 is less than point 75

since point 50 is less than point 75

since point 50 is less than point 75 that would mean that a ball something

that would mean that a ball something

that would mean that a ball something that is short and compact would be more

that is short and compact would be more

that is short and compact would be more aerodynamic than a rocket some of that

aerodynamic than a rocket some of that

aerodynamic than a rocket some of that is long and thin and designed to travel

is long and thin and designed to travel

is long and thin and designed to travel through air that doesn’t make any sense

through air that doesn’t make any sense

through air that doesn’t make any sense no it doesn’t and here comes to mind

no it doesn’t and here comes to mind

no it doesn’t and here comes to mind puzzling part we know something we know

puzzling part we know something we know

puzzling part we know something we know another object it has a drag coefficient

another object it has a drag coefficient

another object it has a drag coefficient of around point 75 and that object is a

of around point 75 and that object is a

of around point 75 and that object is a trash can absurd it doesn’t make any

trash can absurd it doesn’t make any

trash can absurd it doesn’t make any sense so we wanted to determine the real

sense so we wanted to determine the real

sense so we wanted to determine the real number for a drag coefficient of a mile

number for a drag coefficient of a mile

number for a drag coefficient of a mile rocket so let’s say a car company wants

rocket so let’s say a car company wants

rocket so let’s say a car company wants to determine the drag coefficient of the

to determine the drag coefficient of the

to determine the drag coefficient of the new car then you have a huge wind tunnel

new car then you have a huge wind tunnel

new car then you have a huge wind tunnel they put their car in they blow in that

they put their car in they blow in that

they put their car in they blow in that a certain speed and they measure that

a certain speed and they measure that

a certain speed and they measure that drag force that I’m plugging into the

drag force that I’m plugging into the

drag force that I’m plugging into the equation and bam they get a number

equation and bam they get a number

equation and bam they get a number that’s easy so of course we wanted to do

that’s easy so of course we wanted to do

that’s easy so of course we wanted to do this for their model rockets that we

this for their model rockets that we

this for their model rockets that we built so we called Volvo’s just around

built so we called Volvo’s just around

built so we called Volvo’s just around the corner and we asked them hey we’re

the corner and we asked them hey we’re

the corner and we asked them hey we’re two science students we’re doing a

two science students we’re doing a

two science students we’re doing a project could we use your wind tunnel no

project could we use your wind tunnel no

project could we use your wind tunnel no but Chalmers they have a wind tunnel

but Chalmers they have a wind tunnel

but Chalmers they have a wind tunnel right yeah they do so we called Chalmers

right yeah they do so we called Chalmers

right yeah they do so we called Chalmers up and asked hey we’re two science

up and asked hey we’re two science

up and asked hey we’re two science students we’re doing a project could we

students we’re doing a project could we

students we’re doing a project could we use your wind tunnel no so we had to

use your wind tunnel no so we had to

use your wind tunnel no so we had to think again and we know that when

think again and we know that when

think again and we know that when something is falling it’s accelerating

something is falling it’s accelerating

something is falling it’s accelerating you to pull of gravity and that’s this

you to pull of gravity and that’s this

you to pull of gravity and that’s this object picks up speed the air resistance

object picks up speed the air resistance

object picks up speed the air resistance grows greater and greater and eventually

grows greater and greater and eventually

grows greater and greater and eventually the air resistance will be just as great

the air resistance will be just as great

the air resistance will be just as great as the pull of gravity and it reaches

as the pull of gravity and it reaches

as the pull of gravity and it reaches its terminal velocity and the terminal

its terminal velocity and the terminal

its terminal velocity and the terminal velocity is directly connected to the

velocity is directly connected to the

velocity is directly connected to the drag coefficient if you know one you

drag coefficient if you know one you

drag coefficient if you know one you know the other so if we could determine

know the other so if we could determine

know the other so if we could determine the terminal velocity for rockets we

the terminal velocity for rockets we

the terminal velocity for rockets we would be good to go but in order to

would be good to go but in order to

would be good to go but in order to achieve terminal velocity you would have

achieve terminal velocity you would have

achieve terminal velocity you would have to drop them from a height of a couple

to drop them from a height of a couple

to drop them from a height of a couple of kilometers and there will be crashing

of kilometers and there will be crashing

of kilometers and there will be crashing down and crazy speeds not very practical

down and crazy speeds not very practical

down and crazy speeds not very practical but we figured the acceleration on the

but we figured the acceleration on the

but we figured the acceleration on the rocket would changed throughout the fall

rocket would changed throughout the fall

rocket would changed throughout the fall and if we only could measure how the

and if we only could measure how the

and if we only could measure how the acceleration changed at the very

acceleration changed at the very

acceleration changed at the very beginning of the fall we could then

beginning of the fall we could then

beginning of the fall we could then calculate what it would be at the very

calculate what it would be at the very

calculate what it would be at the very end and how do you measure acceleration

end and how do you measure acceleration

end and how do you measure acceleration with an accident if we had an actual

with an accident if we had an actual

with an accident if we had an actual rahmanir we could do all this we have

rahmanir we could do all this we have

rahmanir we could do all this we have solved the problem so we were on our

solved the problem so we were on our

solved the problem so we were on our tutor and asked do you have an

tutor and asked do you have an

tutor and asked do you have an accelerometer no so in the end what we

accelerometer no so in the end what we

accelerometer no so in the end what we did was since we couldn’t afford an

did was since we couldn’t afford an

did was since we couldn’t afford an accelerometer is we made our own

accelerometer is we made our own

accelerometer is we made our own we bought two small chips we solved them

we bought two small chips we solved them

we bought two small chips we solved them together we wrote this software in order

together we wrote this software in order

together we wrote this software in order to make it lug the data and we could

to make it lug the data and we could

to make it lug the data and we could then put this inside our Rockets and

then put this inside our Rockets and

then put this inside our Rockets and then we needed a place to drop them

then we needed a place to drop them

then we needed a place to drop them preferably inside and we found a place

preferably inside and we found a place

preferably inside and we found a place here in Gothenburg where we could drop

here in Gothenburg where we could drop

here in Gothenburg where we could drop them from the 8th floor

them from the 8th floor

them from the 8th floor well then Simon and I we got there and

well then Simon and I we got there and

well then Simon and I we got there and Simon was quite quick to say Carl it’s

Simon was quite quick to say Carl it’s

Simon was quite quick to say Carl it’s better if I’m upstairs you’ll be

better if I’m upstairs you’ll be

better if I’m upstairs you’ll be downstairs so then he took the Rockets

downstairs so then he took the Rockets

downstairs so then he took the Rockets you went into the elevator you rode up

you went into the elevator you rode up

you went into the elevator you rode up the eight stairs you got out he then

the eight stairs you got out he then

the eight stairs you got out he then carefully looked over the edge you took

carefully looked over the edge you took

carefully looked over the edge you took one of the Rockets he inserted it in

one of the Rockets he inserted it in

one of the Rockets he inserted it in this mechanism we built in that stood

this mechanism we built in that stood

this mechanism we built in that stood back you have three two one and he

back you have three two one and he

back you have three two one and he pulled the wire and the rocket fall fell

pulled the wire and the rocket fall fell

pulled the wire and the rocket fall fell and there eight floors down I stand with

and there eight floors down I stand with

and there eight floors down I stand with an old bedsheet trying to catch these as

an old bedsheet trying to catch these as

an old bedsheet trying to catch these as they’re falling down they have a speed

they’re falling down they have a speed

they’re falling down they have a speed of about 80 kilometres an hour and we

of about 80 kilometres an hour and we

of about 80 kilometres an hour and we did this 20 times and we also dropped

did this 20 times and we also dropped

did this 20 times and we also dropped the ball a Poli might wonder why would

the ball a Poli might wonder why would

the ball a Poli might wonder why would we drop a ball but since we came up with

we drop a ball but since we came up with

we drop a ball but since we came up with this method ourselves we’re to validate

this method ourselves we’re to validate

this method ourselves we’re to validate that it worked and since and since we

that it worked and since and since we

that it worked and since and since we know what a ball should have we know

know what a ball should have we know

know what a ball should have we know that if our method yields the same

that if our method yields the same

that if our method yields the same results

results

results we know that our method is correct so we

we know that our method is correct so we

we know that our method is correct so we analyzed our data and we came to some

analyzed our data and we came to some

analyzed our data and we came to some interesting results

interesting results

interesting results from for the ball we should have point

from for the ball we should have point

from for the ball we should have point 15 we got point 54 which is very close

15 we got point 54 which is very close

15 we got point 54 which is very close and for our Rockets which NASA claimed

and for our Rockets which NASA claimed

and for our Rockets which NASA claimed should have point 75 we got point 13

should have point 75 we got point 13

should have point 75 we got point 13 which is much more reasonable and with

which is much more reasonable and with

which is much more reasonable and with this product we took part in a national

this product we took part in a national

this product we took part in a national science competition for young science

science competition for young science

science competition for young science products and we actually won the

products and we actually won the

products and we actually won the competition and our prize was to compete

competition and our prize was to compete

competition and our prize was to compete in the world’s largest competition for

in the world’s largest competition for

in the world’s largest competition for young science projects in Phoenix

young science projects in Phoenix

young science projects in Phoenix Arizona against students from 70

Arizona against students from 70

Arizona against students from 70 different countries from all around the

different countries from all around the

different countries from all around the globe so just before we’re going to fly

globe so just before we’re going to fly

globe so just before we’re going to fly to America that’s when we’re interviewed

to America that’s when we’re interviewed

to America that’s when we’re interviewed on the national morning show on TV and

on the national morning show on TV and

on the national morning show on TV and we were nervous than we were but we were

we were nervous than we were but we were

we were nervous than we were but we were not close just nervous as we were a few

not close just nervous as we were a few

not close just nervous as we were a few days later it was at the competition in

days later it was at the competition in

days later it was at the competition in the US it was judges day which meant

the US it was judges day which meant

the US it was judges day which meant judges were walking around looking at

judges were walking around looking at

judges were walking around looking at the projects and interrogating you and

the projects and interrogating you and

the projects and interrogating you and we managed fine throughout the day I

we managed fine throughout the day I

we managed fine throughout the day I went to write but at the end of the day

went to write but at the end of the day

went to write but at the end of the day we saw one judge walking down the aisle

we saw one judge walking down the aisle

we saw one judge walking down the aisle he had a shaved head was wearing a blue

he had a shaved head was wearing a blue

he had a shaved head was wearing a blue shirt with a big NASA logo on his chest

shirt with a big NASA logo on his chest

shirt with a big NASA logo on his chest he suddenly stopped he saw our title it

he suddenly stopped he saw our title it

he suddenly stopped he saw our title it said could NASA be wrong in giant

said could NASA be wrong in giant

said could NASA be wrong in giant letters he then crossed his arms and he

letters he then crossed his arms and he

letters he then crossed his arms and he walked up to us and said alright guys

walked up to us and said alright guys

walked up to us and said alright guys what are we wrong about so the NASA

what are we wrong about so the NASA

what are we wrong about so the NASA engineer was skeptical at first but

engineer was skeptical at first but

engineer was skeptical at first but after a short time he too was coming

after a short time he too was coming

after a short time he too was coming with he too was convinced that the

with he too was convinced that the

with he too was convinced that the number was strangely large so we looked

number was strangely large so we looked

number was strangely large so we looked at our poster at the reference source

at our poster at the reference source

at our poster at the reference source for this number and he took ups his iPad

for this number and he took ups his iPad

for this number and he took ups his iPad and logged on to some NASA network and

and logged on to some NASA network and

and logged on to some NASA network and soon enough he gave us the professional

soon enough he gave us the professional

soon enough he gave us the professional email address to the very person who’s

email address to the very person who’s

email address to the very person who’s responsible for our number and so

responsible for our number and so

responsible for our number and so excited we were a year’s work hundreds

excited we were a year’s work hundreds

excited we were a year’s work hundreds of our about this tiny number we wrote

of our about this tiny number we wrote

of our about this tiny number we wrote an email we attached our study and we

an email we attached our study and we

an email we attached our study and we click that send button and quite soon we

click that send button and quite soon we

click that send button and quite soon we got a reply sorry the email address is

got a reply sorry the email address is

got a reply sorry the email address is not found so where does this leave us we

not found so where does this leave us we

not found so where does this leave us we have a substantial amount of data that

have a substantial amount of data that

have a substantial amount of data that test that something is wrong with nasa’s

test that something is wrong with nasa’s

test that something is wrong with nasa’s number the web pages where this

number the web pages where this

number the web pages where this information can be found has been

information can be found has been

information can be found has been virtually untouched since the guy who

virtually untouched since the guy who

virtually untouched since the guy who wrote them retired no one seems to be

wrote them retired no one seems to be

wrote them retired no one seems to be picking up where his work left off and

picking up where his work left off and

picking up where his work left off and this at this point you might ask why

this at this point you might ask why

this at this point you might ask why does it matter it’s just a tiny

does it matter it’s just a tiny

does it matter it’s just a tiny insignificant number that no will notice

insignificant number that no will notice

insignificant number that no will notice but no this number is constantly being

but no this number is constantly being

but no this number is constantly being quoted all around the web everyone

quoted all around the web everyone

quoted all around the web everyone interested in rocket building refers

interested in rocket building refers

interested in rocket building refers back to this page and as far as we can

back to this page and as far as we can

back to this page and as far as we can tell no one is questioning it because

tell no one is questioning it because

tell no one is questioning it because it’s NASA this is the Bible of rocketry

it’s NASA this is the Bible of rocketry

it’s NASA this is the Bible of rocketry but we not only question the number we

but we not only question the number we

but we not only question the number we set out to find the real answer if

set out to find the real answer if

set out to find the real answer if something seems wrong to you with the

something seems wrong to you with the

something seems wrong to you with the information you’re being fed then stand

information you’re being fed then stand

information you’re being fed then stand up and question it even if you have next

up and question it even if you have next

up and question it even if you have next to no resources like us our research

to no resources like us our research

to no resources like us our research produced a different result than what

produced a different result than what

produced a different result than what the accepted truth is and someone’s got

the accepted truth is and someone’s got

the accepted truth is and someone’s got to be wrong and between you and us we’re

to be wrong and between you and us we’re

to be wrong and between you and us we’re pretty sure it’s NASA

pretty sure it’s NASA

pretty sure it’s NASA [Applause]

[Applause]

[Applause] [Music]