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How is a nuclear reactor used for science? | Alastair McIvor | TEDxOttawa


[Music]

[Music] if you speak to my friends they tell you

if you speak to my friends they tell you

if you speak to my friends they tell you I’m an unlikely candidate to be someone

I’m an unlikely candidate to be someone

I’m an unlikely candidate to be someone urging others to have faith in humanity

urging others to have faith in humanity

urging others to have faith in humanity I’m perhaps a bit too preoccupied with

I’m perhaps a bit too preoccupied with

I’m perhaps a bit too preoccupied with some of the disappointing behavior that

some of the disappointing behavior that

some of the disappointing behavior that we see around us but there is one place

we see around us but there is one place

we see around us but there is one place my workplace that does cause me to have

my workplace that does cause me to have

my workplace that does cause me to have hope in the future generations this is

hope in the future generations this is

hope in the future generations this is where I work

where I work

where I work it’s the nru reactor at Canadian nuclear

it’s the nru reactor at Canadian nuclear

it’s the nru reactor at Canadian nuclear laboratories it’s a nuclear reactor used

laboratories it’s a nuclear reactor used

laboratories it’s a nuclear reactor used for science

for science

for science who knew that Canada’s most productive

who knew that Canada’s most productive

who knew that Canada’s most productive science facility was tucked away in the

science facility was tucked away in the

science facility was tucked away in the forest a short drive up the valley from

forest a short drive up the valley from

forest a short drive up the valley from our nation’s capital well two issues

our nation’s capital well two issues

our nation’s capital well two issues right away there first how can I make

right away there first how can I make

right away there first how can I make such a bold claim that nru is the most

such a bold claim that nru is the most

such a bold claim that nru is the most productive science facility we’ve ever

productive science facility we’ve ever

productive science facility we’ve ever built in Canada and second perhaps more

built in Canada and second perhaps more

built in Canada and second perhaps more fundamentally what does NIU stand for

fundamentally what does NIU stand for

fundamentally what does NIU stand for nru is national research universal an

nru is national research universal an

nru is national research universal an odd but an apt name for a facility that

odd but an apt name for a facility that

odd but an apt name for a facility that has made substantial contributions to

has made substantial contributions to

has made substantial contributions to every area of scientific endeavor

every area of scientific endeavor

every area of scientific endeavor physics chemistry biology engineering

physics chemistry biology engineering

physics chemistry biology engineering [Music]

[Music]

[Music] but those of us who work there just call

but those of us who work there just call

but those of us who work there just call it nru as for its contributions to

it nru as for its contributions to

it nru as for its contributions to Canada and the world

NIU provided the knowledge that launched

NIU provided the knowledge that launched and sustained two multi-billion

and sustained two multi-billion

and sustained two multi-billion international industries for decades one

international industries for decades one

international industries for decades one in the energy sector and the other in

in the energy sector and the other in

in the energy sector and the other in the health sector it has directly

the health sector it has directly

the health sector it has directly impacted hundreds of millions of

impacted hundreds of millions of

impacted hundreds of millions of people’s lives and enabled a new branch

people’s lives and enabled a new branch

people’s lives and enabled a new branch of science to come into existence which

of science to come into existence which

of science to come into existence which was recognized with a Nobel Prize more

was recognized with a Nobel Prize more

was recognized with a Nobel Prize more about all of that in a minute so how is

about all of that in a minute so how is

about all of that in a minute so how is a nuclear reactor used for science what

a nuclear reactor used for science what

a nuclear reactor used for science what good is splitting atoms do

good is splitting atoms do

good is splitting atoms do well I learned in high school that

well I learned in high school that

well I learned in high school that everything even me everything is made of

everything even me everything is made of

everything even me everything is made of atoms and atoms are the fundamental

atoms and atoms are the fundamental

atoms and atoms are the fundamental building blocks and there are 92 of

building blocks and there are 92 of

building blocks and there are 92 of those building blocks and we give them

those building blocks and we give them

those building blocks and we give them different names carbon hydrogen iron and

different names carbon hydrogen iron and

different names carbon hydrogen iron and each atom has in its Center and nucleus

each atom has in its Center and nucleus

each atom has in its Center and nucleus made of protons and neutrons and

made of protons and neutrons and

made of protons and neutrons and electrons spinning around the outside

electrons spinning around the outside

electrons spinning around the outside and that’s all the world nuclear means

and that’s all the world nuclear means

and that’s all the world nuclear means it just means about the nucleus

it just means about the nucleus

it just means about the nucleus chemistry is sticking atoms together you

chemistry is sticking atoms together you

chemistry is sticking atoms together you have two H’s and an O and you make an

have two H’s and an O and you make an

have two H’s and an O and you make an h2o but nuclear science is concerned

h2o but nuclear science is concerned

h2o but nuclear science is concerned with what’s inside the atom a nuclear

with what’s inside the atom a nuclear

with what’s inside the atom a nuclear reactor of course is reliant on one atom

reactor of course is reliant on one atom

reactor of course is reliant on one atom overall and that is the heaviest one

overall and that is the heaviest one

overall and that is the heaviest one that you’ll find in nature uranium and

that you’ll find in nature uranium and

that you’ll find in nature uranium and uranium has a special property if you

uranium has a special property if you

uranium has a special property if you add a neutron to a uranium it’s too

add a neutron to a uranium it’s too

add a neutron to a uranium it’s too heavy it cannot stay in that state it

heavy it cannot stay in that state it

heavy it cannot stay in that state it wants to split apart and those two

wants to split apart and those two

wants to split apart and those two halves are other atoms about half the

halves are other atoms about half the

halves are other atoms about half the size of a uranium atom and out comes

size of a uranium atom and out comes

size of a uranium atom and out comes some energy and two or three neutrons

some energy and two or three neutrons

some energy and two or three neutrons well if we needed a neutron to make the

well if we needed a neutron to make the

well if we needed a neutron to make the split and now we’ve made two or three

split and now we’ve made two or three

split and now we’ve made two or three more there you can go on and make other

more there you can go on and make other

more there you can go on and make other uranium split and on and on we’ll girl

uranium split and on and on we’ll girl

uranium split and on and on we’ll girl there’s only two other features needed

there’s only two other features needed

there’s only two other features needed and then we’ve got everything we need to

and then we’ve got everything we need to

and then we’ve got everything we need to know to make a nuclear reactor the first

know to make a nuclear reactor the first

know to make a nuclear reactor the first is that those neutrons are going too

is that those neutrons are going too

is that those neutrons are going too fast when they first come out and they

fast when they first come out and they

fast when they first come out and they they need to bounce into other lighter

they need to bounce into other lighter

they need to bounce into other lighter atoms to scrub off some speed and

atoms to scrub off some speed and

atoms to scrub off some speed and hydrogen would be perfect we know

hydrogen would be perfect we know

hydrogen would be perfect we know there’s a lot of hydrogen in h2o right

there’s a lot of hydrogen in h2o right

there’s a lot of hydrogen in h2o right and the last thing we need a material

and the last thing we need a material

and the last thing we need a material that will soak up neutrons when we want

that will soak up neutrons when we want

that will soak up neutrons when we want to stop the reaction no neutrons

to stop the reaction no neutrons

to stop the reaction no neutrons no more splits and really that’s all

no more splits and really that’s all

no more splits and really that’s all that’s in NR you although you saw it was

that’s in NR you although you saw it was

that’s in NR you although you saw it was a vast science facility it’s the size of

a vast science facility it’s the size of

a vast science facility it’s the size of a cathedral at its heart it’s a simple

a cathedral at its heart it’s a simple

a cathedral at its heart it’s a simple machine we have some uranium in long

machine we have some uranium in long

machine we have some uranium in long metal rods those are in a tank of water

metal rods those are in a tank of water

metal rods those are in a tank of water and we have some other rods made of

and we have some other rods made of

and we have some other rods made of cobalt in this case and they soak up the

cobalt in this case and they soak up the

cobalt in this case and they soak up the neutrons when we want to stop the

neutrons when we want to stop the

neutrons when we want to stop the reactor

when the designers of NIU back in the

when the designers of NIU back in the 50s designed and brought the facility

50s designed and brought the facility

50s designed and brought the facility into operation in 1957 they didn’t try

into operation in 1957 they didn’t try

into operation in 1957 they didn’t try to second-guess what it would be used

to second-guess what it would be used

to second-guess what it would be used for they wanted it to be a flexible

for they wanted it to be a flexible

for they wanted it to be a flexible versatile machine so that people could

versatile machine so that people could

versatile machine so that people could imagine dream up new types of

imagine dream up new types of

imagine dream up new types of experiments and use it to break

experiments and use it to break

experiments and use it to break frontiers they didn’t try to guess it

frontiers they didn’t try to guess it

frontiers they didn’t try to guess it was built to be a universal science

was built to be a universal science

was built to be a universal science facility and I used full of holes you

facility and I used full of holes you

facility and I used full of holes you don’t think of nuclear reactors being

don’t think of nuclear reactors being

don’t think of nuclear reactors being full of holes but then ru is and that’s

full of holes but then ru is and that’s

full of holes but then ru is and that’s because the designers wanted scientists

because the designers wanted scientists

because the designers wanted scientists to get access to the core and use it to

to get access to the core and use it to

to get access to the core and use it to do great things and I’m always amazed

do great things and I’m always amazed

do great things and I’m always amazed when I hear the stories of innovation

when I hear the stories of innovation

when I hear the stories of innovation that have come out from NIU and I have

that have come out from NIU and I have

that have come out from NIU and I have three of those stories that I think will

three of those stories that I think will

three of those stories that I think will really illustrate the point the first

really illustrate the point the first

really illustrate the point the first thing that happened I must say I don’t

thing that happened I must say I don’t

thing that happened I must say I don’t want to imply that innovation started

want to imply that innovation started

want to imply that innovation started just when NIU became available there

just when NIU became available there

just when NIU became available there were other research reactors before that

were other research reactors before that

were other research reactors before that and smart inventive people use those as

and smart inventive people use those as

and smart inventive people use those as soon as they were available but NIU as

soon as they were available but NIU as

soon as they were available but NIU as the pinnacle it’s a real culmination of

the pinnacle it’s a real culmination of

the pinnacle it’s a real culmination of all that’s gone before so when those

all that’s gone before so when those

all that’s gone before so when those earlier reactors and then NIU became

earlier reactors and then NIU became

earlier reactors and then NIU became available one thought that came up in

available one thought that came up in

available one thought that came up in scientist Minds was now we can make

scientist Minds was now we can make

scientist Minds was now we can make isotopes an isotope is just a heavier

isotopes an isotope is just a heavier

isotopes an isotope is just a heavier version of an atom in the nucleus of an

version of an atom in the nucleus of an

version of an atom in the nucleus of an atom there’s protons and neutrons

atom there’s protons and neutrons

atom there’s protons and neutrons neutrons don’t do much they just make an

neutrons don’t do much they just make an

neutrons don’t do much they just make an atom heavier and the neutron heavier

atom heavier and the neutron heavier

atom heavier and the neutron heavier Ataman there are three atoms of hydrogen

Ataman there are three atoms of hydrogen

Ataman there are three atoms of hydrogen they’re all hydrogen they’re all

they’re all hydrogen they’re all

they’re all hydrogen they’re all different weights so why did scientists

different weights so why did scientists

different weights so why did scientists want to make isotopes we’ve got a big

want to make isotopes we’ve got a big

want to make isotopes we’ve got a big tank of water making trillions of

tank of water making trillions of

tank of water making trillions of neutrons in NIU

neutrons in NIU

neutrons in NIU you can add neutrons to atoms and make

you can add neutrons to atoms and make

you can add neutrons to atoms and make isotopes why some isotopes are not happy

isotopes why some isotopes are not happy

isotopes why some isotopes are not happy in their state they want to spit out

in their state they want to spit out

in their state they want to spit out some energy and settle to a more stable

some energy and settle to a more stable

some energy and settle to a more stable state and that energy is an x-ray and

state and that energy is an x-ray and

state and that energy is an x-ray and there were two really clever ideas

there were two really clever ideas

there were two really clever ideas emerging about how we could use an x-ray

emerging about how we could use an x-ray

emerging about how we could use an x-ray and today in nru we make some isotopes

and today in nru we make some isotopes

and today in nru we make some isotopes and they shine a very low energy a

and they shine a very low energy a

and they shine a very low energy a gentle x-ray and they can be injected in

gentle x-ray and they can be injected in

gentle x-ray and they can be injected in patience and the x-rays shining out to

patience and the x-rays shining out to

patience and the x-rays shining out to the patient can be used to make a

the patient can be used to make a

the patient can be used to make a diagnostic image a cat scan and in a

diagnostic image a cat scan and in a

diagnostic image a cat scan and in a regular year we can make enough for five

regular year we can make enough for five

regular year we can make enough for five million cats cats helping all those

million cats cats helping all those

million cats cats helping all those people in their families we make other

people in their families we make other

people in their families we make other isotopes like cobalt 60 that shines a

isotopes like cobalt 60 that shines a

isotopes like cobalt 60 that shines a very very strong x-ray and it will kill

very very strong x-ray and it will kill

very very strong x-ray and it will kill anything that it shines on and back in

anything that it shines on and back in

anything that it shines on and back in the 50s when this technology was first

the 50s when this technology was first

the 50s when this technology was first contemplated here in Canada engineers

contemplated here in Canada engineers

contemplated here in Canada engineers worked with medical professionals to

worked with medical professionals to

worked with medical professionals to design machines that Shawn that x-ray

design machines that Shawn that x-ray

design machines that Shawn that x-ray onto tumors in cancer patients to kill

onto tumors in cancer patients to kill

onto tumors in cancer patients to kill the cancerous tissue and treat cancer

the cancerous tissue and treat cancer

the cancerous tissue and treat cancer patients in the first cancer therapies

patients in the first cancer therapies

patients in the first cancer therapies were performed here in Canada in the 50s

were performed here in Canada in the 50s

were performed here in Canada in the 50s and that technology was sold around the

and that technology was sold around the

and that technology was sold around the world and today the cobalt that we make

world and today the cobalt that we make

world and today the cobalt that we make in NIU every year treats 60 million

in NIU every year treats 60 million

in NIU every year treats 60 million cancer cancer patients in 80 countries

this is our 60th anniversary I said we

this is our 60th anniversary I said we started in 1957 and we’ve done the math

started in 1957 and we’ve done the math

started in 1957 and we’ve done the math and over its life NIU has made well over

and over its life NIU has made well over

and over its life NIU has made well over well over half a billion patient

well over half a billion patient

well over half a billion patient treatments half a billion there was

treatments half a billion there was

treatments half a billion there was another entirely different idea taking

another entirely different idea taking

another entirely different idea taking shape in some people’s minds when NIU

shape in some people’s minds when NIU

shape in some people’s minds when NIU became available and the reactors that

became available and the reactors that

became available and the reactors that preceded it and that was can you use a

preceded it and that was can you use a

preceded it and that was can you use a nuclear reaction to boil water like

nuclear reaction to boil water like

nuclear reaction to boil water like steam drive a turbine turn a generator

steam drive a turbine turn a generator

steam drive a turbine turn a generator and make electricity the challenge with

and make electricity the challenge with

and make electricity the challenge with that technology is in the center of the

that technology is in the center of the

that technology is in the center of the nuclear reactor the conditions are very

nuclear reactor the conditions are very

nuclear reactor the conditions are very harsh and they’re not like anything you

harsh and they’re not like anything you

harsh and they’re not like anything you see anywhere on earth so how would you

see anywhere on earth so how would you

see anywhere on earth so how would you choose the right materials to build that

choose the right materials to build that

choose the right materials to build that structure the investment in a nuclear

structure the investment in a nuclear

structure the investment in a nuclear power reactor these machines are much

power reactor these machines are much

power reactor these machines are much much bigger than nru or a research

much bigger than nru or a research

much bigger than nru or a research reactor the investment is very big it’s

reactor the investment is very big it’s

reactor the investment is very big it’s rather like a hydro dam it costs a huge

rather like a hydro dam it costs a huge

rather like a hydro dam it costs a huge amount of money to build but once you’ve

amount of money to build but once you’ve

amount of money to build but once you’ve built it it then just makes cheap

built it it then just makes cheap

built it it then just makes cheap reliable clean electricity

reliable clean electricity

reliable clean electricity decades and decades unless you’ve chosen

decades and decades unless you’ve chosen

decades and decades unless you’ve chosen the wrong materials to make the reactor

the wrong materials to make the reactor

the wrong materials to make the reactor from in which case it doesn’t last and

from in which case it doesn’t last and

from in which case it doesn’t last and your investment is wasted

your investment is wasted

your investment is wasted so in nru scientists can get a long

so in nru scientists can get a long

so in nru scientists can get a long stick and literally put 25 samples of

stick and literally put 25 samples of

stick and literally put 25 samples of different bits of steel on the end and

different bits of steel on the end and

different bits of steel on the end and put that into the reactor and leave it

put that into the reactor and leave it

put that into the reactor and leave it there for a while and let them

there for a while and let them

there for a while and let them experience those harsh conditions pull

experience those harsh conditions pull

experience those harsh conditions pull it out a year later and then do

it out a year later and then do

it out a year later and then do experiments on those 25 steels which

experiments on those 25 steels which

experiments on those 25 steels which steel was the best which retained its

steel was the best which retained its

steel was the best which retained its strength which is the best candidate for

strength which is the best candidate for

strength which is the best candidate for building of the big power reactors and

building of the big power reactors and

building of the big power reactors and nru the knowledge gained from

nru the knowledge gained from

nru the knowledge gained from experiments there have sustained

experiments there have sustained

experiments there have sustained Canada’s nuclear industry over those

Canada’s nuclear industry over those

Canada’s nuclear industry over those decades if you’re a government trying to

decades if you’re a government trying to

decades if you’re a government trying to plan climate change goals greenhouse gas

plan climate change goals greenhouse gas

plan climate change goals greenhouse gas reduction goals and you have a domestic

reduction goals and you have a domestic

reduction goals and you have a domestic technology that makes a sixth of the

technology that makes a sixth of the

technology that makes a sixth of the country’s electricity well over half of

country’s electricity well over half of

country’s electricity well over half of Ontario’s electricity all with zero

Ontario’s electricity all with zero

Ontario’s electricity all with zero greenhouse gas that’s a huge boon just

greenhouse gas that’s a huge boon just

greenhouse gas that’s a huge boon just because a few people answered some

because a few people answered some

because a few people answered some practical questions using the

practical questions using the

practical questions using the capabilities of nru so the third story

capabilities of nru so the third story

capabilities of nru so the third story is about this guy Burt Brockhaus Burt

is about this guy Burt Brockhaus Burt

is about this guy Burt Brockhaus Burt was a young man in world war ii and

was a young man in world war ii and

was a young man in world war ii and worked as a sonar operator and then in

worked as a sonar operator and then in

worked as a sonar operator and then in the 50’s found himself at shore proved

the 50’s found himself at shore proved

the 50’s found himself at shore proved elaborate orys where the earlier reactor

elaborate orys where the earlier reactor

elaborate orys where the earlier reactor was operating already and nru was coming

was operating already and nru was coming

was operating already and nru was coming into operation and he dreamt up machines

into operation and he dreamt up machines

into operation and he dreamt up machines that could get neutrons shining out of

that could get neutrons shining out of

that could get neutrons shining out of holes I said there was holes in the side

holes I said there was holes in the side

holes I said there was holes in the side of nru direct those neutrons and shine

of nru direct those neutrons and shine

of nru direct those neutrons and shine them onto samples of material and by

them onto samples of material and by

them onto samples of material and by measuring how the neutrons scattered

measuring how the neutrons scattered

measuring how the neutrons scattered from the sample he was able to to gain

from the sample he was able to to gain

from the sample he was able to to gain fundamental knowledge about how

fundamental knowledge about how

fundamental knowledge about how materials were knit together at the

materials were knit together at the

materials were knit together at the molecular level

molecular level

molecular level an astounding technique and here’s the

an astounding technique and here’s the

an astounding technique and here’s the magic it can be used on anything with

magic it can be used on anything with

magic it can be used on anything with that technique you can look at metals

that technique you can look at metals

that technique you can look at metals polymers glasses ceramics gels

polymers glasses ceramics gels

polymers glasses ceramics gels semiconductors and

semiconductors and

semiconductors and and so many of the innovations of the

and so many of the innovations of the

and so many of the innovations of the 20th and 21st century rely on advanced

20th and 21st century rely on advanced

20th and 21st century rely on advanced materials burst was recognized with the

materials burst was recognized with the

materials burst was recognized with the Nobel Prize in 1994 and by that time he

Nobel Prize in 1994 and by that time he

Nobel Prize in 1994 and by that time he shared the prize with cliff Shaw from

shared the prize with cliff Shaw from

shared the prize with cliff Shaw from the USA and by 94 this technique these

the USA and by 94 this technique these

the USA and by 94 this technique these instruments were installed in research

instruments were installed in research

instruments were installed in research reactors in every developed country

reactors in every developed country

reactors in every developed country because it is such a powerful technique

because it is such a powerful technique

because it is such a powerful technique for understanding materials and making

for understanding materials and making

for understanding materials and making new innovation and it’s those stories of

new innovation and it’s those stories of

new innovation and it’s those stories of innovation from history but the ones I

innovation from history but the ones I

innovation from history but the ones I hear about me every week the dime at

hear about me every week the dime at

hear about me every week the dime at work that make me such a proud so proud

work that make me such a proud so proud

work that make me such a proud so proud to be a member of the NIU team and here

to be a member of the NIU team and here

to be a member of the NIU team and here are some of the members of that team we

are some of the members of that team we

are some of the members of that team we run the facility 24/7 Christmas Day New

run the facility 24/7 Christmas Day New

run the facility 24/7 Christmas Day New Year’s shifts

Year’s shifts

Year’s shifts we can’t ever all be in one photograph

we can’t ever all be in one photograph

we can’t ever all be in one photograph but because we operate nru today every

but because we operate nru today every

but because we operate nru today every day of the week a PhD student a

day of the week a PhD student a

day of the week a PhD student a professor a researcher a scientist comes

professor a researcher a scientist comes

professor a researcher a scientist comes through our front door with a new idea

through our front door with a new idea

through our front door with a new idea for an experiment to give Canada

for an experiment to give Canada

for an experiment to give Canada thousands of years of electricity from

thousands of years of electricity from

thousands of years of electricity from thorium fuel or develop the next

thorium fuel or develop the next

thorium fuel or develop the next generation of medical isotope products

generation of medical isotope products

generation of medical isotope products or develop a new material which well

or develop a new material which well

or develop a new material which well which will what enable a new type of

which will what enable a new type of

which will what enable a new type of heart implant or a supersonic train or a

heart implant or a supersonic train or a

heart implant or a supersonic train or a faster computer I don’t know but those

faster computer I don’t know but those

faster computer I don’t know but those first two examples are real thousands of

first two examples are real thousands of

first two examples are real thousands of years of electricity from thorium and

years of electricity from thorium and

years of electricity from thorium and the next generation of medical isotopes

the next generation of medical isotopes

the next generation of medical isotopes those experiments have been in nru this

those experiments have been in nru this

those experiments have been in nru this year so we’ve proved that this works get

year so we’ve proved that this works get

year so we’ve proved that this works get a powerful capable scientific tool and

a powerful capable scientific tool and

a powerful capable scientific tool and put it in the hands of imaginative

put it in the hands of imaginative

put it in the hands of imaginative scientists and great things will happen

scientists and great things will happen

scientists and great things will happen as a country we made an investment a big

as a country we made an investment a big

as a country we made an investment a big investment to build nru but not out of

investment to build nru but not out of

investment to build nru but not out of proportion with the things government

proportion with the things government

proportion with the things government spends money on the same as a big city

spends money on the same as a big city

spends money on the same as a big city hospital law

hospital law

hospital law four or five fighter jets and that

four or five fighter jets and that

four or five fighter jets and that investment has paid us back many times

investment has paid us back many times

investment has paid us back many times over half a billion patient treatments

over half a billion patient treatments

over half a billion patient treatments billions of tons of greenhouse gas

billions of tons of greenhouse gas

billions of tons of greenhouse gas avoided nru will end operation next year

avoided nru will end operation next year

avoided nru will end operation next year in 2018 in the spring and our 60 years

in 2018 in the spring and our 60 years

in 2018 in the spring and our 60 years will will stand as a proud record of all

will will stand as a proud record of all

will will stand as a proud record of all that we’ve done but I’m confident that

that we’ve done but I’m confident that

that we’ve done but I’m confident that the coming generation of scientists

the coming generation of scientists

the coming generation of scientists though starting their careers today will

though starting their careers today will

though starting their careers today will continue to astound us with new

continue to astound us with new

continue to astound us with new innovation as we put into their hands

innovation as we put into their hands

innovation as we put into their hands capable powerful scientific tools like

capable powerful scientific tools like

capable powerful scientific tools like nru

”

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