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Experiencing Racism in VR | Courtney D. Cogburn, PhD | TEDxRVA


I have a vivid memory of the day I

I have a vivid memory of the day I learned Trayvon Martin was killed my

learned Trayvon Martin was killed my

learned Trayvon Martin was killed my facebook newsfeed was filled with some

facebook newsfeed was filled with some

facebook newsfeed was filled with some of my friends who were pregnant with

of my friends who were pregnant with

of my friends who were pregnant with black boys at the time complaining about

black boys at the time complaining about

black boys at the time complaining about not being able to sleep feeling anxious

not being able to sleep feeling anxious

not being able to sleep feeling anxious frustrated angry hopeless they were

frustrated angry hopeless they were

frustrated angry hopeless they were lamenting bringing their children into

lamenting bringing their children into

lamenting bringing their children into this world juxtaposed to that anguish

this world juxtaposed to that anguish

this world juxtaposed to that anguish were some posts from some of my white

were some posts from some of my white

were some posts from some of my white friends who were giggling about adorable

friends who were giggling about adorable

friends who were giggling about adorable kitten memes posting cupcake recipes

kitten memes posting cupcake recipes

kitten memes posting cupcake recipes some of them were talking about the

some of them were talking about the

some of them were talking about the death of Trayvon but it was clear that

death of Trayvon but it was clear that

death of Trayvon but it was clear that none of them were holding in their

none of them were holding in their

none of them were holding in their bodies or felt personally threatened by

bodies or felt personally threatened by

bodies or felt personally threatened by the death of this stranger I have since

the death of this stranger I have since

the death of this stranger I have since become the mother of a delightfully

become the mother of a delightfully

become the mother of a delightfully precocious and sweet little boy I

precocious and sweet little boy I

precocious and sweet little boy I curious about his personality and who

curious about his personality and who

curious about his personality and who he’ll become and I admire the cook in a

he’ll become and I admire the cook in a

he’ll become and I admire the cook in a smile but I also wonder when the oohs

smile but I also wonder when the oohs

smile but I also wonder when the oohs and the ahhs the gushing of strangers

and the ahhs the gushing of strangers

and the ahhs the gushing of strangers will turn into clutched purses fear or

will turn into clutched purses fear or

will turn into clutched purses fear or perceptions of threat for me Trayvon is

perceptions of threat for me Trayvon is

perceptions of threat for me Trayvon is not a stranger he’s my son and the

not a stranger he’s my son and the

not a stranger he’s my son and the threat that killed him is not easily

threat that killed him is not easily

threat that killed him is not easily exchanged for kitten needs or cupcake

exchanged for kitten needs or cupcake

exchanged for kitten needs or cupcake recipes the threat to kill Trayvon is

recipes the threat to kill Trayvon is

recipes the threat to kill Trayvon is something that I consider every day as a

something that I consider every day as a

something that I consider every day as a mother and as a scientist as a scientist

mother and as a scientist as a scientist

mother and as a scientist as a scientist my work focuses on how our lived

my work focuses on how our lived

my work focuses on how our lived experiences contribute to racial

experiences contribute to racial

experiences contribute to racial inequalities and health I’m haunted by

inequalities and health I’m haunted by

inequalities and health I’m haunted by this pattern in the data that indicates

this pattern in the data that indicates

this pattern in the data that indicates that blacks fare worse than whites when

that blacks fare worse than whites when

that blacks fare worse than whites when it comes to health for the 15 leading

it comes to health for the 15 leading

it comes to health for the 15 leading causes of disease heart disease started

causes of disease heart disease started

causes of disease heart disease started 15 leading causes of death heart disease

15 leading causes of death heart disease

15 leading causes of death heart disease stroke hypertension blacks have an

stroke hypertension blacks have an

stroke hypertension blacks have an earlier onset faster progression in

earlier onset faster progression in

earlier onset faster progression in earlier death than whites what’s

earlier death than whites what’s

earlier death than whites what’s particularly striking about this pattern

particularly striking about this pattern

particularly striking about this pattern is that it persists at every level of

is that it persists at every level of

is that it persists at every level of socioeconomic status even when we

socioeconomic status even when we

socioeconomic status even when we account for education income health

account for education income health

account for education income health insurance we still see this difference

insurance we still see this difference

insurance we still see this difference between blacks and whites what do we do

between blacks and whites what do we do

between blacks and whites what do we do with that if it’s not education it’s not

with that if it’s not education it’s not

with that if it’s not education it’s not income why is race explaining health how

income why is race explaining health how

income why is race explaining health how do we account how do we understand the

do we account how do we understand the

do we account how do we understand the probability of my dying sooner than my

probability of my dying sooner than my

probability of my dying sooner than my white counterparts in spite of my

white counterparts in spite of my

white counterparts in spite of my education and income this collision of

education and income this collision of

education and income this collision of this deeply personal part of my life in

this deeply personal part of my life in

this deeply personal part of my life in my professional life has led me to a

my professional life has led me to a

my professional life has led me to a question of what would it take what

question of what would it take what

question of what would it take what would it take for you to understand that

would it take for you to understand that

would it take for you to understand that racism is more complex than being called

racism is more complex than being called

racism is more complex than being called a name or even violence at the hands of

a name or even violence at the hands of

a name or even violence at the hands of police what would it take for you to

police what would it take for you to

police what would it take for you to accept that we still live in a world

accept that we still live in a world

accept that we still live in a world where the color of someone’s skin can

where the color of someone’s skin can

where the color of someone’s skin can get them killed Passover for a job

get them killed Passover for a job

get them killed Passover for a job denied a loan denied housing a fair shot

what would it take for the videos and

what would it take for the videos and reports of black bodies being gunned

reports of black bodies being gunned

reports of black bodies being gunned down by police to register as a pattern

down by police to register as a pattern

down by police to register as a pattern of racism and not merely as a

of racism and not merely as a

of racism and not merely as a consequence of insubordination or

consequence of insubordination or

consequence of insubordination or criminality what would it take for the

criminality what would it take for the

criminality what would it take for the out cries of racial injustice to

out cries of racial injustice to

out cries of racial injustice to register not as a sensitivity or as a

register not as a sensitivity or as a

register not as a sensitivity or as a card to be played but as an unacceptable

card to be played but as an unacceptable

card to be played but as an unacceptable social reality what would it take for

social reality what would it take for

social reality what would it take for the data you see and that you say you

the data you see and that you say you

the data you see and that you say you get what would it take for that to for

get what would it take for that to for

get what would it take for that to for you to connect in fear

you to connect in fear

you to connect in fear the reality behind that data what would

the reality behind that data what would

the reality behind that data what would it take for you to not just feel bad or

it take for you to not just feel bad or

it take for you to not just feel bad or to empathize but to act and think

to empathize but to act and think

to empathize but to act and think differently to refuse to live in the

differently to refuse to live in the

differently to refuse to live in the world where the color of one’s skin can

world where the color of one’s skin can

world where the color of one’s skin can dictate their health or well-being I

talk a lot about racism and I’m used to

talk a lot about racism and I’m used to there being a point in the conversation

there being a point in the conversation

there being a point in the conversation for the audience to turn inward they

for the audience to turn inward they

for the audience to turn inward they start focusing on their emotions of

start focusing on their emotions of

start focusing on their emotions of guilt shame anger indifference I’m going

guilt shame anger indifference I’m going

guilt shame anger indifference I’m going to ask you to not do that stay in the

to ask you to not do that stay in the

to ask you to not do that stay in the room with me stay present there’s a

room with me stay present there’s a

room with me stay present there’s a quote I like by dr. Georgie an see in

quote I like by dr. Georgie an see in

quote I like by dr. Georgie an see in the letter that he published in the New

the letter that he published in the New

the letter that he published in the New York Times that he addressed to white

York Times that he addressed to white

York Times that he addressed to white America and in this letter he says I’m

America and in this letter he says I’m

America and in this letter he says I’m asking you to look deep to look into

asking you to look deep to look into

asking you to look deep to look into your soul with silence to quiet that

your soul with silence to quiet that

your soul with silence to quiet that voice that will speak to you of your

voice that will speak to you of your

voice that will speak to you of your white innocence take a deep breath make

white innocence take a deep breath make

white innocence take a deep breath make room for my voice in the deepest part of

room for my voice in the deepest part of

room for my voice in the deepest part of your psyche try to be silent practice

your psyche try to be silent practice

your psyche try to be silent practice listening so what I’m asking you to do

listening so what I’m asking you to do

listening so what I’m asking you to do is to not focus on how it feels for you

is to not focus on how it feels for you

is to not focus on how it feels for you to hear me describe oppression but focus

to hear me describe oppression but focus

to hear me describe oppression but focus on the oppression when I talk to my

on the oppression when I talk to my

on the oppression when I talk to my students I often give an example of me

students I often give an example of me

students I often give an example of me describing someone on the ground with

describing someone on the ground with

describing someone on the ground with the boot on their neck and they’re

the boot on their neck and they’re

the boot on their neck and they’re focused on what it feels like to look at

focused on what it feels like to look at

focused on what it feels like to look at someone on the ground with the boot on

someone on the ground with the boot on

someone on the ground with the boot on their neck as opposed to focusing on the

their neck as opposed to focusing on the

their neck as opposed to focusing on the person on the ground with boot on their

person on the ground with boot on their

person on the ground with boot on their neck focus on the oppression I am a

neck focus on the oppression I am a

neck focus on the oppression I am a professor at Columbia University in New

professor at Columbia University in New

professor at Columbia University in New York City and in a school of social work

York City and in a school of social work

York City and in a school of social work at that I am grateful to be surrounded

at that I am grateful to be surrounded

at that I am grateful to be surrounded by people who share my values of racial

by people who share my values of racial

by people who share my values of racial justice and racial equity but I also

justice and racial equity but I also

justice and racial equity but I also find that even people who believe

find that even people who believe

find that even people who believe espouses beliefs

espouses beliefs

espouses beliefs of racial justice and racial equity

of racial justice and racial equity

of racial justice and racial equity don’t always understand racial injustice

don’t always understand racial injustice

don’t always understand racial injustice or racial inequity they don’t always get

or racial inequity they don’t always get

or racial inequity they don’t always get how that really shows up in people’s

how that really shows up in people’s

how that really shows up in people’s lives and in society I find that it’s

lives and in society I find that it’s

lives and in society I find that it’s easier to build consensus on what should

easier to build consensus on what should

easier to build consensus on what should be and much more difficult to build

be and much more difficult to build

be and much more difficult to build consensus on what is it’s much easier to

consensus on what is it’s much easier to

consensus on what is it’s much easier to agree that the world should be a fair

agree that the world should be a fair

agree that the world should be a fair place and that my kid deserves the same

place and that my kid deserves the same

place and that my kid deserves the same shot as your kid and it’s much more

shot as your kid and it’s much more

shot as your kid and it’s much more difficult to get on the same page about

difficult to get on the same page about

difficult to get on the same page about barriers that show up that prevent us

barriers that show up that prevent us

barriers that show up that prevent us from living in that reality in our

from living in that reality in our

from living in that reality in our change project we’re exploring the ways

change project we’re exploring the ways

change project we’re exploring the ways to use virtual reality to bridge this

to use virtual reality to bridge this

to use virtual reality to bridge this gap in understanding we’re asking the

gap in understanding we’re asking the

gap in understanding we’re asking the question can we immerse people in a

question can we immerse people in a

question can we immerse people in a virtual experience of racism that helps

virtual experience of racism that helps

virtual experience of racism that helps them to better understand the

them to better understand the

them to better understand the complexities of the realities of racism

complexities of the realities of racism

complexities of the realities of racism we are using quantitative and

we are using quantitative and

we are using quantitative and qualitative data that demonstrates that

qualitative data that demonstrates that

qualitative data that demonstrates that there are racial differences in how kids

there are racial differences in how kids

there are racial differences in how kids are disciplined in their classroom

are disciplined in their classroom

are disciplined in their classroom hiring practices policing demonstrated

hiring practices policing demonstrated

hiring practices policing demonstrated in empirical data the ways in which

in empirical data the ways in which

in empirical data the ways in which racism shows up in people’s lives in

racism shows up in people’s lives in

racism shows up in people’s lives in multiple spaces across the life course

multiple spaces across the life course

multiple spaces across the life course in collaboration with Jeremy bailenson

in collaboration with Jeremy bailenson

in collaboration with Jeremy bailenson of the virtual human interaction lab at

of the virtual human interaction lab at

of the virtual human interaction lab at Stanford University in my team the

Stanford University in my team the

Stanford University in my team the Cogburn research group and the Brown

Cogburn research group and the Brown

Cogburn research group and the Brown Institute of media innovation it’s a lot

Institute of media innovation it’s a lot

Institute of media innovation it’s a lot of people it could be a university we

of people it could be a university we

of people it could be a university we are asking you to step into the life or

are asking you to step into the life or

are asking you to step into the life or the virtual shoes of Michael sterling

the virtual shoes of Michael sterling

the virtual shoes of Michael sterling we’re asking you to think about the ways

we’re asking you to think about the ways

we’re asking you to think about the ways that you can embody an experience that’s

that you can embody an experience that’s

that you can embody an experience that’s not your own we know that we can help

not your own we know that we can help

not your own we know that we can help you through a virtual avatar feel and

you through a virtual avatar feel and

you through a virtual avatar feel and experience what your virtual avatar is

experience what your virtual avatar is

experience what your virtual avatar is feeling and experiencing we have

feeling and experiencing we have

feeling and experiencing we have complex uses of quantitative and

complex uses of quantitative and

complex uses of quantitative and qualitative data to construct narratives

qualitative data to construct narratives

qualitative data to construct narratives of race and racism through the life of

of race and racism through the life of

of race and racism through the life of Michael sterling we’re asking you to

Michael sterling we’re asking you to

Michael sterling we’re asking you to think about what it feels like to be

think about what it feels like to be

think about what it feels like to be Michael at age seven age 15 30 and 50 at

Michael at age seven age 15 30 and 50 at

Michael at age seven age 15 30 and 50 at age seven you’re in a classroom playing

age seven you’re in a classroom playing

age seven you’re in a classroom playing with your friends tossing blocks as

with your friends tossing blocks as

with your friends tossing blocks as airplanes and flying robots and suddenly

airplanes and flying robots and suddenly

airplanes and flying robots and suddenly you’re white female teacher appears

you’re white female teacher appears

you’re white female teacher appears hovering over you scolding you for being

hovering over you scolding you for being

hovering over you scolding you for being aggressive and dangerous you need to

aggressive and dangerous you need to

aggressive and dangerous you need to calm down Michael you’re gonna hurt

calm down Michael you’re gonna hurt

calm down Michael you’re gonna hurt someone go sit in timeout you’re not

someone go sit in timeout you’re not

someone go sit in timeout you’re not acting any differently than your white

acting any differently than your white

acting any differently than your white peers and as you sit in timeout

peers and as you sit in timeout

peers and as you sit in timeout as an avatar looking at your face in the

as an avatar looking at your face in the

as an avatar looking at your face in the mirror we’re asking you to reflect on

mirror we’re asking you to reflect on

mirror we’re asking you to reflect on how it felt to be treated that way as

how it felt to be treated that way as

how it felt to be treated that way as you watch your white peers continue to

you watch your white peers continue to

you watch your white peers continue to play at age 15 you’re preparing to go to

play at age 15 you’re preparing to go to

play at age 15 you’re preparing to go to a basketball game with your friend Jacob

a basketball game with your friend Jacob

a basketball game with your friend Jacob who’s white and he’s waiting at you if

who’s white and he’s waiting at you if

who’s white and he’s waiting at you if they don’t waiting for you at the door

they don’t waiting for you at the door

they don’t waiting for you at the door before you leave your mother asked you

before you leave your mother asked you

before you leave your mother asked you to stop she’s watching the local news

to stop she’s watching the local news

to stop she’s watching the local news and she realizes that the police are

and she realizes that the police are

and she realizes that the police are looking for someone who’s wearing

looking for someone who’s wearing

looking for someone who’s wearing something very similar to you she asks

something very similar to you she asks

something very similar to you she asks you to change you resist you’re running

you to change you resist you’re running

you to change you resist you’re running late for the game she stops and says

late for the game she stops and says

late for the game she stops and says don’t forget what happened to your

don’t forget what happened to your

don’t forget what happened to your brother you change your shirt assure

brother you change your shirt assure

brother you change your shirt assure your mother that you’ll be okay and head

your mother that you’ll be okay and head

your mother that you’ll be okay and head out of the house as you head to the game

out of the house as you head to the game

out of the house as you head to the game you’re waving to neighbors on the

you’re waving to neighbors on the

you’re waving to neighbors on the streets Jacob decides to run and catch

streets Jacob decides to run and catch

streets Jacob decides to run and catch the bus so that you’re not late as soon

the bus so that you’re not late as soon

the bus so that you’re not late as soon as you make the same choice to jaywalk

as you make the same choice to jaywalk

as you make the same choice to jaywalk you’re accosted by police officers who

you’re accosted by police officers who

you’re accosted by police officers who instruct you the user in the headset to

instruct you the user in the headset to

instruct you the user in the headset to get on your knees and put your hands up

get on your knees and put your hands up

get on your knees and put your hands up again this might seem extreme but it’s

again this might seem extreme but it’s

again this might seem extreme but it’s based on real data on stop-and-frisk

based on real data on stop-and-frisk

based on real data on stop-and-frisk practices in New York City as you hear

practices in New York City as you hear

practices in New York City as you hear the sounds of police yelling at you

the sounds of police yelling at you

the sounds of police yelling at you neighbors intervening on your behalf the

neighbors intervening on your behalf the

neighbors intervening on your behalf the sound shuts off and quiet and we fade

sound shuts off and quiet and we fade

sound shuts off and quiet and we fade back to your mother sitting in the house

back to your mother sitting in the house

back to your mother sitting in the house watching the local news hearing the same

watching the local news hearing the same

watching the local news hearing the same sounds and sirens

sounds and sirens

sounds and sirens not realizing that this incident

not realizing that this incident

not realizing that this incident involves her son at age 30 you’re

involves her son at age 30 you’re

involves her son at age 30 you’re getting ready for an interview the

getting ready for an interview the

getting ready for an interview the opportunity of a lifetime you’re well

opportunity of a lifetime you’re well

opportunity of a lifetime you’re well educated you have great experiences

educated you have great experiences

educated you have great experiences you’re prepared

you’re prepared

you’re prepared but you enter this very white space the

but you enter this very white space the

but you enter this very white space the old white founders are hanging on the

old white founders are hanging on the

old white founders are hanging on the walls the magazine’s in front of you are

walls the magazine’s in front of you are

walls the magazine’s in front of you are covered with white faces when the

covered with white faces when the

covered with white faces when the interviewer comes in he goes immediately

interviewer comes in he goes immediately

interviewer comes in he goes immediately to the white candidate who’s waiting

to the white candidate who’s waiting

to the white candidate who’s waiting with you and says you must be our

with you and says you must be our

with you and says you must be our candidate from Yale he’s not

candidate from Yale he’s not

candidate from Yale he’s not you are the receptionist corrects the

you are the receptionist corrects the

you are the receptionist corrects the interviewer who then acknowledges your

interviewer who then acknowledges your

interviewer who then acknowledges your presence and says oh I’m sorry I didn’t

presence and says oh I’m sorry I didn’t

presence and says oh I’m sorry I didn’t see you there we’ll be right with you

see you there we’ll be right with you

see you there we’ll be right with you as he takes the white candidate back for

as he takes the white candidate back for

as he takes the white candidate back for the interview you don’t get the job at

the interview you don’t get the job at

the interview you don’t get the job at age 50 we ask you to look into a mirror

age 50 we ask you to look into a mirror

age 50 we ask you to look into a mirror at your aged base reflecting on the

at your aged base reflecting on the

at your aged base reflecting on the experiences that have happened to you

experiences that have happened to you

experiences that have happened to you but also seeing video overlays of other

but also seeing video overlays of other

but also seeing video overlays of other black boys girls men and women who are

black boys girls men and women who are

black boys girls men and women who are also sharing their experiences at

also sharing their experiences at

also sharing their experiences at various points in their lives in various

various points in their lives in various

various points in their lives in various spaces across their life course it’s not

spaces across their life course it’s not

spaces across their life course it’s not just Michael it’s not just at age 7 its

just Michael it’s not just at age 7 its

just Michael it’s not just at age 7 its many people who carry these experiences

many people who carry these experiences

many people who carry these experiences across their lives we’re not only

across their lives we’re not only

across their lives we’re not only leveraging the power of Technology we’re

leveraging the power of Technology we’re

leveraging the power of Technology we’re leveraging the power of science if you

leveraging the power of science if you

leveraging the power of science if you will we are as I said using quantitative

will we are as I said using quantitative

will we are as I said using quantitative and qualitative data to construct these

and qualitative data to construct these

and qualitative data to construct these complex narratives in a virtual

complex narratives in a virtual

complex narratives in a virtual experience but we’re also employing

experience but we’re also employing

experience but we’re also employing experimental design to think about how

experimental design to think about how

experimental design to think about how we can assess changes at the individual

we can assess changes at the individual

we can assess changes at the individual and group level are we moving the needle

and group level are we moving the needle

and group level are we moving the needle are people different as a result of

are people different as a result of

are people different as a result of going through this experience I believe

going through this experience I believe

going through this experience I believe that achieving racial justice requires

that achieving racial justice requires

that achieving racial justice requires that we understand racism not an

that we understand racism not an

that we understand racism not an understanding that emerges from

understanding that emerges from

understanding that emerges from intellectual exercise or in the

intellectual exercise or in the

intellectual exercise or in the production or consumption of science but

production or consumption of science but

production or consumption of science but one that is based in your body in your

one that is based in your body in your

one that is based in your body in your spirit as much as reason

spirit as much as reason

spirit as much as reason so I ask you again what would it take

so I ask you again what would it take

so I ask you again what would it take for you to not just feel bad or

for you to not just feel bad or

for you to not just feel bad or empathize but to act and think

empathize but to act and think

empathize but to act and think differently what would it take

”

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