Civil War and war in general does not tend to stop at a frontline
tend to stop at a frontline
tend to stop at a frontline we can all have truth and reconciliation
we can all have truth and reconciliation
we can all have truth and reconciliation that’s not the end how do you dig out
that’s not the end how do you dig out
that’s not the end how do you dig out all that hurt all that oppression from
all that hurt all that oppression from
all that hurt all that oppression from the hearts of so many people and so for
the hearts of so many people and so for
the hearts of so many people and so for me writing has really become a way to
me writing has really become a way to
me writing has really become a way to explore the ways in which the courage
explore the ways in which the courage
explore the ways in which the courage with which people come back from
with which people come back from
with which people come back from tremendous violence and oppression
so I wanted to begin by asking you about
so I wanted to begin by asking you about your first book don’t let’s go to the
your first book don’t let’s go to the
your first book don’t let’s go to the dogs tonight which I think probably
dogs tonight which I think probably
dogs tonight which I think probably everyone in the room would agree is just
everyone in the room would agree is just
everyone in the room would agree is just a really really extraordinary memoir an
a really really extraordinary memoir an
a really really extraordinary memoir an amazing Eve occasion of Africa and of
amazing Eve occasion of Africa and of
amazing Eve occasion of Africa and of your childhood there an incredibly
your childhood there an incredibly
your childhood there an incredibly moving book and I wanted to ask you
moving book and I wanted to ask you
moving book and I wanted to ask you about the process of writing it first of
about the process of writing it first of
about the process of writing it first of all why did you decide to write it well
all why did you decide to write it well
all why did you decide to write it well my mother considered that God had given
my mother considered that God had given
my mother considered that God had given her a pair of ovaries for one reason
her a pair of ovaries for one reason
her a pair of ovaries for one reason only and that was to produce a
only and that was to produce a
only and that was to produce a biographer so when she was pregnant with
biographer so when she was pregnant with
biographer so when she was pregnant with my sister she read the foetus the entire
my sister she read the foetus the entire
my sister she read the foetus the entire works of Shakespeare in the womb and the
works of Shakespeare in the womb and the
works of Shakespeare in the womb and the upshot was my sister was born
upshot was my sister was born
upshot was my sister was born functionally illiterate refused to read
functionally illiterate refused to read
functionally illiterate refused to read or write it’s the extent that she’s even
or write it’s the extent that she’s even
or write it’s the extent that she’s even a bit sort of haphazard with the English
a bit sort of haphazard with the English
a bit sort of haphazard with the English language so they’re not inconsiderable
language so they’re not inconsiderable
language so they’re not inconsiderable literary ambitions on me and I was five
literary ambitions on me and I was five
literary ambitions on me and I was five also and it was during the war in what
also and it was during the war in what
also and it was during the war in what was then Rhodesia and instead of sending
was then Rhodesia and instead of sending
was then Rhodesia and instead of sending us to boarding school because you
us to boarding school because you
us to boarding school because you couldn’t you kindergarten they they sent
couldn’t you kindergarten they they sent
couldn’t you kindergarten they they sent out packets for the parents to teach
out packets for the parents to teach
out packets for the parents to teach their children at home until you were
their children at home until you were
their children at home until you were old enough to be sent to those ruthless
old enough to be sent to those ruthless
old enough to be sent to those ruthless boarding schools anyway they sent this
boarding schools anyway they sent this
boarding schools anyway they sent this correspondence pack it out to Mum and
correspondence pack it out to Mum and
correspondence pack it out to Mum and she would literally just mathematics
she would literally just mathematics
she would literally just mathematics darling you can always pay someone to
darling you can always pay someone to
darling you can always pay someone to count for you but English now this will
count for you but English now this will
count for you but English now this will be fun who are you going to write about
be fun who are you going to write about
be fun who are you going to write about and then she would fix her not
and then she would fix her not
and then she would fix her not inconsiderable glare on me and I would
inconsiderable glare on me and I would
inconsiderable glare on me and I would go god I guess you and so you know I
go god I guess you and so you know I
go god I guess you and so you know I went to school and I couldn’t count so I
went to school and I couldn’t count so I
went to school and I couldn’t count so I had to write it so I wrote a book about
had to write it so I wrote a book about
had to write it so I wrote a book about my mother okay you were being groomed
my mother okay you were being groomed
my mother okay you were being groomed from a young age to write that book
from a young age to write that book
from a young age to write that book quelle sebaceous I think the word well I
quelle sebaceous I think the word well I
quelle sebaceous I think the word well I love the book as many many many people
love the book as many many many people
love the book as many many many people do and as a writer I
do and as a writer I
do and as a writer I I just kept exclaiming as I was reading
I just kept exclaiming as I was reading
I just kept exclaiming as I was reading how incredibly vivid your your
how incredibly vivid your your
how incredibly vivid your your descriptions are and I’m just wondering
descriptions are and I’m just wondering
descriptions are and I’m just wondering you weren’t taking notes I imagine
you weren’t taking notes I imagine
you weren’t taking notes I imagine as a child they weren’t keeping maybe
as a child they weren’t keeping maybe
as a child they weren’t keeping maybe you were keeping a diary but how did you
you were keeping a diary but how did you
you were keeping a diary but how did you make such incredibly evocative
make such incredibly evocative
make such incredibly evocative descriptions of of Africa and your
descriptions of of Africa and your
descriptions of of Africa and your childhood how did that process work for
childhood how did that process work for
childhood how did that process work for you you know I think it helps to have
you you know I think it helps to have
you you know I think it helps to have that many near-death experiences it
that many near-death experiences it
that many near-death experiences it tends to sharpen the mind yeah really
tends to sharpen the mind yeah really
tends to sharpen the mind yeah really you know I mean it’s funny how often
you know I mean it’s funny how often
you know I mean it’s funny how often this comes up and I think okay so if you
this comes up and I think okay so if you
this comes up and I think okay so if you not only surrounded by water right we’ve
not only surrounded by water right we’ve
not only surrounded by water right we’ve been at war for over a decade in this
been at war for over a decade in this
been at war for over a decade in this country and we don’t feel it I mean we
country and we don’t feel it I mean we
country and we don’t feel it I mean we really unless we’re military family or
really unless we’re military family or
really unless we’re military family or military town and possibly here in DC
military town and possibly here in DC
military town and possibly here in DC you do but we really aren’t feeling that
you do but we really aren’t feeling that
you do but we really aren’t feeling that war or those Wars the way that we should
war or those Wars the way that we should
war or those Wars the way that we should I think if you’re going to go to war
I think if you’re going to go to war
I think if you’re going to go to war there should be a horrible shock
there should be a horrible shock
there should be a horrible shock physically and psychically to you it is
physically and psychically to you it is
physically and psychically to you it is a incredibly expensive thing to do not
a incredibly expensive thing to do not
a incredibly expensive thing to do not just financially but also to the body
just financially but also to the body
just financially but also to the body soul and mind and growing up I was
soul and mind and growing up I was
soul and mind and growing up I was incredibly aware of that in part because
incredibly aware of that in part because
incredibly aware of that in part because by the end of our very ill-conceived war
by the end of our very ill-conceived war
by the end of our very ill-conceived war anyone between the age of any white male
anyone between the age of any white male
anyone between the age of any white male between the age of 18 and 60 spent as
between the age of 18 and 60 spent as
between the age of 18 and 60 spent as much as six months conscripted at war my
much as six months conscripted at war my
much as six months conscripted at war my father was at our neighbors it was their
father was at our neighbors it was their
father was at our neighbors it was their sons it was everyone we knew civil war
sons it was everyone we knew civil war
sons it was everyone we knew civil war then war in general does not tend to
then war in general does not tend to
then war in general does not tend to stop at a frontline there’s no such
stop at a frontline there’s no such
stop at a frontline there’s no such thing as that came from line I mean it
thing as that came from line I mean it
thing as that came from line I mean it makes its way into the home makes its
makes its way into the home makes its
makes its way into the home makes its way onto your farm
way onto your farm
way onto your farm you’re constantly worried about being
you’re constantly worried about being
you’re constantly worried about being ambushed school was watered a couple of
ambushed school was watered a couple of
ambushed school was watered a couple of times and so that I mean the one and
times and so that I mean the one and
times and so that I mean the one and it’s soldiers will tell you and some
it’s soldiers will tell you and some
it’s soldiers will tell you and some sort of way I mean it in spite of the
sort of way I mean it in spite of the
sort of way I mean it in spite of the post-traumatic stress and so war tends
post-traumatic stress and so war tends
post-traumatic stress and so war tends to be this kind of incredible thing
to be this kind of incredible thing
to be this kind of incredible thing because you are very aware of the fact
because you are very aware of the fact
because you are very aware of the fact that every day moment let alone day
that every day moment let alone day
that every day moment let alone day might be or last I think it makes you a
might be or last I think it makes you a
might be or last I think it makes you a very nervous and very observant person
very nervous and very observant person
very nervous and very observant person makes it a very good writer in that case
makes it a very good writer in that case
makes it a very good writer in that case and this you sort of reprised this theme
and this you sort of reprised this theme
and this you sort of reprised this theme in scribbling the cat and from a
in scribbling the cat and from a
in scribbling the cat and from a different perspective can you talk about
different perspective can you talk about
different perspective can you talk about what moved you to write that well one of
what moved you to write that well one of
what moved you to write that well one of the shocking things in Donuts go to the
the shocking things in Donuts go to the
the shocking things in Donuts go to the dogs night came out was that received
dogs night came out was that received
dogs night came out was that received very few critical in other words very
very few critical in other words very
very few critical in other words very few people were critical of it I mean
few people were critical of it I mean
few people were critical of it I mean other than on amazon.com I have three
other than on amazon.com I have three
other than on amazon.com I have three children
children
children so I’ve other words over bred for my
so I’ve other words over bred for my
so I’ve other words over bred for my ability to keep up but ungrateful little
ability to keep up but ungrateful little
ability to keep up but ungrateful little wretches they are occasionally when I
wretches they are occasionally when I
wretches they are occasionally when I punish them it fairly often they like to
punish them it fairly often they like to
punish them it fairly often they like to go on Amazon and read the one-star
go on Amazon and read the one-star
go on Amazon and read the one-star review and this person would give you
review and this person would give you
review and this person would give you know stars but it’s not an option I
know stars but it’s not an option I
know stars but it’s not an option I hated this book I will never read
hated this book I will never read
hated this book I will never read anything by this author again shouting
anything by this author again shouting
anything by this author again shouting that yeah and don’t let’s go dogs right
that yeah and don’t let’s go dogs right
that yeah and don’t let’s go dogs right I was I expected that it would start a
I was I expected that it would start a
I was I expected that it would start a conversation but war that race about
conversation but war that race about
conversation but war that race about what it is to bring children into a
what it is to bring children into a
what it is to bring children into a world where yeah I mean I don’t know
world where yeah I mean I don’t know
world where yeah I mean I don’t know about you but how do you raise children
about you but how do you raise children
about you but how do you raise children and a war I mean like my three children
and a war I mean like my three children
and a war I mean like my three children are very aware of the fact that we’re at
are very aware of the fact that we’re at
are very aware of the fact that we’re at war very aware of that fact and I bring
war very aware of that fact and I bring
war very aware of that fact and I bring it up daily and I get criticized for
it up daily and I get criticized for
it up daily and I get criticized for that I might bring my children up to
that I might bring my children up to
that I might bring my children up to know that there is climate change and
know that there is climate change and
know that there is climate change and that they are going to have to be
that they are going to have to be
that they are going to have to be dealing with that you know I was very
dealing with that you know I was very
dealing with that you know I was very surprised that people didn’t bring up
surprised that people didn’t bring up
surprised that people didn’t bring up look there was war there was racism and
look there was war there was racism and
look there was war there was racism and and that you know to have so toward the
and that you know to have so toward the
and that you know to have so toward the end of the war in Rhodesia that was
end of the war in Rhodesia that was
end of the war in Rhodesia that was roughly a hundred thousand white people
roughly a hundred thousand white people
roughly a hundred thousand white people trying to oppress something the region
trying to oppress something the region
trying to oppress something the region of six seven million black people
of six seven million black people
of six seven million black people it was incredibly bad war I don’t care
it was incredibly bad war I don’t care
it was incredibly bad war I don’t care of you the wrong side or the right side
of you the wrong side or the right side
of you the wrong side or the right side what I mean however history judges you
what I mean however history judges you
what I mean however history judges you war is horrific and it’s really horrific
war is horrific and it’s really horrific
war is horrific and it’s really horrific for children you have no idea what side
for children you have no idea what side
for children you have no idea what side they’re on it just so happens I believe
they’re on it just so happens I believe
they’re on it just so happens I believe we were on the wrong side but it makes
we were on the wrong side but it makes
we were on the wrong side but it makes no difference to the trauma and that
no difference to the trauma and that
no difference to the trauma and that never got broader atlases of people with
never got broader atlases of people with
never got broader atlases of people with very sensitive people in the states and
very sensitive people in the states and
very sensitive people in the states and general incredibly sensitive squeamish
general incredibly sensitive squeamish
general incredibly sensitive squeamish around the issues of race and identity
around the issues of race and identity
around the issues of race and identity and war
and war
and war actually as we should be because we have
actually as we should be because we have
actually as we should be because we have not resolved those issues here and so so
not resolved those issues here and so so
not resolved those issues here and so so the reviews of general very tentative
the reviews of general very tentative
the reviews of general very tentative around that and it’s a scribbling the
around that and it’s a scribbling the
around that and it’s a scribbling the cat was actually my effort to address it
cat was actually my effort to address it
cat was actually my effort to address it and say no no no you must understand I
and say no no no you must understand I
and say no no no you must understand I wasn’t some innocent there are no
wasn’t some innocent there are no
wasn’t some innocent there are no innocent some more the first casualty of
innocent some more the first casualty of
innocent some more the first casualty of war wasn’t truth its innocence then
war wasn’t truth its innocence then
war wasn’t truth its innocence then truth there are no children and war you
truth there are no children and war you
truth there are no children and war you are robbed of your childhood yeah it’s a
are robbed of your childhood yeah it’s a
are robbed of your childhood yeah it’s a really powerful message it’s an
really powerful message it’s an
really powerful message it’s an amazingly powerful book it’s a it’s a
amazingly powerful book it’s a it’s a
amazingly powerful book it’s a it’s a wonderful book
wonderful book
wonderful book it’s a tough book it’s a very very tough
it’s a tough book it’s a very very tough
it’s a tough book it’s a very very tough I think a lot if you’re going to read it
I think a lot if you’re going to read it
I think a lot if you’re going to read it I recommend my beautifully written and
I recommend my beautifully written and
I recommend my beautifully written and and you beautifully felt and it
and you beautifully felt and it
and you beautifully felt and it certainly put war in a different
certainly put war in a different
certainly put war in a different perspective for me I mean like you said
perspective for me I mean like you said
perspective for me I mean like you said everyone’s a victim well I think that
everyone’s a victim well I think that
everyone’s a victim well I think that one of the things that doesn’t get
one of the things that doesn’t get
one of the things that doesn’t get spoken about enough is what are the
spoken about enough is what are the
spoken about enough is what are the repercussions of what is the half-life
repercussions of what is the half-life
repercussions of what is the half-life of violence what for example is the
of violence what for example is the
of violence what for example is the half-life of apartheid you know we can
half-life of apartheid you know we can
half-life of apartheid you know we can all have truth and reconciliation that’s
all have truth and reconciliation that’s
all have truth and reconciliation that’s not the end how do you how do you dig
not the end how do you how do you dig
not the end how do you how do you dig out all that propaganda and all that
out all that propaganda and all that
out all that propaganda and all that hurt and all that oppression from the
hurt and all that oppression from the
hurt and all that oppression from the hearts of so many people how do you
hearts of so many people how do you
hearts of so many people how do you regress that imbalance I mean when we
regress that imbalance I mean when we
regress that imbalance I mean when we are violent let’s think about the
are violent let’s think about the
are violent let’s think about the half-life of that and the equal and
half-life of that and the equal and
half-life of that and the equal and opposite reaction to everything that we
opposite reaction to everything that we
opposite reaction to everything that we do great
do great
do great did you after writing that book did you
did you after writing that book did you
did you after writing that book did you feel like you’ve gotten rid of the
feel like you’ve gotten rid of the
feel like you’ve gotten rid of the demons to a certain extent no I think I
demons to a certain extent no I think I
demons to a certain extent no I think I brought them back to life and they live
brought them back to life and they live
brought them back to life and they live with me now and that’s all right it’s
with me now and that’s all right it’s
with me now and that’s all right it’s not a bad thing to live with one’s
not a bad thing to live with one’s
not a bad thing to live with one’s demons and the open really yeah about
demons and the open really yeah about
demons and the open really yeah about I’m alright but I mean I how do they how
I’m alright but I mean I how do they how
I’m alright but I mean I how do they how do you live with your demons and do they
do you live with your demons and do they
do you live with your demons and do they wake you up at night and you have a
wake you up at night and you have a
wake you up at night and you have a jolly good conversation with them at
jolly good conversation with them at
jolly good conversation with them at night yeah I mean it’s also right not to
night yeah I mean it’s also right not to
night yeah I mean it’s also right not to be completely content all the time we
be completely content all the time we
be completely content all the time we shouldn’t be content you know look at
shouldn’t be content you know look at
shouldn’t be content you know look at what we have done look at what we have
what we have done look at what we have
what we have done look at what we have done is those as a species look what
done is those as a species look what
done is those as a species look what we’ve done as a country look we’ve what
we’ve done as a country look we’ve what
we’ve done as a country look we’ve what happened what have I’ve done as an
happened what have I’ve done as an
happened what have I’ve done as an individual I should not be sleeping well
individual I should not be sleeping well
individual I should not be sleeping well at night
at night
at night that’s fair to say and now nights when I
that’s fair to say and now nights when I
that’s fair to say and now nights when I stay awake and I’m woken up by my own
stay awake and I’m woken up by my own
stay awake and I’m woken up by my own terror two o’clock and it’s okay I think
terror two o’clock and it’s okay I think
terror two o’clock and it’s okay I think to be exhausted and to be all not
to be exhausted and to be all not
to be exhausted and to be all not terrified by your own self and by the
terrified by your own self and by the
terrified by your own self and by the things that one is responsible for I can
things that one is responsible for I can
things that one is responsible for I can see that it would be really fun to live
see that it would be really fun to live
see that it would be really fun to live off a diet of xanax and wine but I would
off a diet of xanax and wine but I would
off a diet of xanax and wine but I would prefer to feel at all mm-hmm and to be
prefer to feel at all mm-hmm and to be
prefer to feel at all mm-hmm and to be very responsible for that so I think
very responsible for that so I think
very responsible for that so I think that this idea that one should be
that this idea that one should be
that this idea that one should be contentedly sloping towards some sort of
contentedly sloping towards some sort of
contentedly sloping towards some sort of retirement is completely bogus I ain’t
retirement is completely bogus I ain’t
retirement is completely bogus I ain’t you should be terrified out of your wits
you should be terrified out of your wits
you should be terrified out of your wits all the time certainly pay attention
all the time certainly pay attention
all the time certainly pay attention more how does that translate into your
more how does that translate into your
more how does that translate into your your writing these days or into your in
your writing these days or into your in
your writing these days or into your in fact very beautiful way my most recent
fact very beautiful way my most recent
fact very beautiful way my most recent assignment was to go for National
assignment was to go for National
assignment was to go for National Geographic to some Bobby Thank You
Geographic to some Bobby Thank You
Geographic to some Bobby Thank You National Geographic for sending me home
National Geographic for sending me home
National Geographic for sending me home to my people and what was amazing about
to my people and what was amazing about
to my people and what was amazing about that was in Bob we have all people very
that was in Bob we have all people very
that was in Bob we have all people very traumatized nation they’ve been under
traumatized nation they’ve been under
traumatized nation they’ve been under subjugation of Robert Mugabe for thirty
subjugation of Robert Mugabe for thirty
subjugation of Robert Mugabe for thirty plus years it’s the fifth most dangerous
plus years it’s the fifth most dangerous
plus years it’s the fifth most dangerous place for journalists on the planet I
place for journalists on the planet I
place for journalists on the planet I saw that change I mean Suria me about
saw that change I mean Suria me about
saw that change I mean Suria me about two to six
two to six
two to six it’s an incredibly oppressive place and
it’s an incredibly oppressive place and
it’s an incredibly oppressive place and rape for example is routinely used as a
rape for example is routinely used as a
rape for example is routinely used as a weapon against communities to silence
weapon against communities to silence
weapon against communities to silence people very clever actually it’s a Peter
people very clever actually it’s a Peter
people very clever actually it’s a Peter Godwin term this phrase smart genocide
Godwin term this phrase smart genocide
Godwin term this phrase smart genocide which you don’t actually have to kill
which you don’t actually have to kill
which you don’t actually have to kill people if you can just rape an entire
people if you can just rape an entire
people if you can just rape an entire community of women which has the double
community of women which has the double
community of women which has the double effect both isolating them and
effect both isolating them and
effect both isolating them and terrorizing everyone into silence what I
terrorizing everyone into silence what I
terrorizing everyone into silence what I met when I was there was women who
met when I was there was women who
met when I was there was women who refused to stay with that title of
refused to stay with that title of
refused to stay with that title of victim they said no no we are going to
victim they said no no we are going to
victim they said no no we are going to be activists we’re going to take our
be activists we’re going to take our
be activists we’re going to take our lives back in our hands and be with
lives back in our hands and be with
lives back in our hands and be with these women
these women
these women but essentially and again what I love
but essentially and again what I love
but essentially and again what I love about writing for National Geographic
about writing for National Geographic
about writing for National Geographic it’s one of the few places anymore where
it’s one of the few places anymore where
it’s one of the few places anymore where one
one
one is allowed to go to a place and fully
is allowed to go to a place and fully
is allowed to go to a place and fully explore what is going on they don’t drop
explore what is going on they don’t drop
explore what is going on they don’t drop you in for three minutes inspector to
you in for three minutes inspector to
you in for three minutes inspector to come up with a story they drop you in
come up with a story they drop you in
come up with a story they drop you in for as long as you need to come up with
for as long as you need to come up with
for as long as you need to come up with the humanity of the place and so to be
the humanity of the place and so to be
the humanity of the place and so to be with these women who not only recognize
with these women who not only recognize
with these women who not only recognize that they had been the victims of the
that they had been the victims of the
that they had been the victims of the violence but they sat down with their
violence but they sat down with their
violence but they sat down with their perpetrators and said both of us died
perpetrators and said both of us died
perpetrators and said both of us died that night we both lost our humanity you
that night we both lost our humanity you
that night we both lost our humanity you and me together I am old enough to have
and me together I am old enough to have
and me together I am old enough to have suckled you and you did this to me who
suckled you and you did this to me who
suckled you and you did this to me who are you
are you
are you who made you into this thing and how do
who made you into this thing and how do
who made you into this thing and how do we go forward from here because unless
we go forward from here because unless
we go forward from here because unless we can go forward together no one goes
we can go forward together no one goes
we can go forward together no one goes forward I can’t go forward alone we have
forward I can’t go forward alone we have
forward I can’t go forward alone we have to move together what a gift what a gift
to move together what a gift what a gift
to move together what a gift what a gift and so for me writing has really become
and so for me writing has really become
and so for me writing has really become a way to explore the gift of being on
a way to explore the gift of being on
a way to explore the gift of being on the planet the gift of our shared
the planet the gift of our shared
the planet the gift of our shared humanity and the ways in which the
humanity and the ways in which the
humanity and the ways in which the courage with which people come back from
courage with which people come back from
courage with which people come back from tremendous violence and oppression the
tremendous violence and oppression the
tremendous violence and oppression the terror I think for me I mean to be
terror I think for me I mean to be
terror I think for me I mean to be honest the real difficulty is that I am
honest the real difficulty is that I am
honest the real difficulty is that I am afraid of my own how frightened I am I’m
afraid of my own how frightened I am I’m
afraid of my own how frightened I am I’m most afraid of being too afraid to come
most afraid of being too afraid to come
most afraid of being too afraid to come back with the story I’m afraid of being
back with the story I’m afraid of being
back with the story I’m afraid of being arrested I’m afraid of being beaten I’m
arrested I’m afraid of being beaten I’m
arrested I’m afraid of being beaten I’m afraid of being raped or tortured so
afraid of being raped or tortured so
afraid of being raped or tortured so you’re living every day with that terror
you’re living every day with that terror
you’re living every day with that terror when you’re when you’re searching mister
when you’re when you’re searching mister
when you’re when you’re searching mister yeah but I mean and my basic
yeah but I mean and my basic
yeah but I mean and my basic understanding is look odds really good
understanding is look odds really good
understanding is look odds really good I’ve got a you know US passport I get
I’ve got a you know US passport I get
I’ve got a you know US passport I get taken and I’m probably going to get
taken and I’m probably going to get
taken and I’m probably going to get taken out so my other real terror is I’m
taken out so my other real terror is I’m
taken out so my other real terror is I’m very aware of the fact that everyone I
very aware of the fact that everyone I
very aware of the fact that everyone I was talking to is an imminent danger and
was talking to is an imminent danger and
was talking to is an imminent danger and that I have to be very very responsible
that I have to be very very responsible
that I have to be very very responsible that you know there’s a big difference
that you know there’s a big difference
that you know there’s a big difference between being a story maker and a story
between being a story maker and a story
between being a story maker and a story taker Story takers leave and they don’t
taker Story takers leave and they don’t
taker Story takers leave and they don’t care what the consequences are story
care what the consequences are story
care what the consequences are story makers I think you have to know that
makers I think you have to know that
makers I think you have to know that you’re just really blessed with the
you’re just really blessed with the
you’re just really blessed with the opportunity to go in there and be with
opportunity to go in there and be with
opportunity to go in there and be with these amazing in this amazing time with
these amazing in this amazing time with
these amazing in this amazing time with these incredibly courageous people and
these incredibly courageous people and
these incredibly courageous people and that your courage only has to match
that your courage only has to match
that your courage only has to match millionth of theirs
millionth of theirs
millionth of theirs and that but your responsibility lies at
and that but your responsibility lies at
and that but your responsibility lies at home when you’re writing this story well
home when you’re writing this story well
home when you’re writing this story well research again writing and you’re
research again writing and you’re
research again writing and you’re navigating that that you’re trying to
navigating that that you’re trying to
navigating that that you’re trying to hold your humanity into a certain extent
hold your humanity into a certain extent
hold your humanity into a certain extent so you can be a good reporter and yet
so you can be a good reporter and yet
so you can be a good reporter and yet you have to evoke the full brutal
you have to evoke the full brutal
you have to evoke the full brutal humanity of the situation how do you how
humanity of the situation how do you how
humanity of the situation how do you how do you navigate that I think people
do you navigate that I think people
do you navigate that I think people often mistake humanity for gratuitous
often mistake humanity for gratuitous
often mistake humanity for gratuitous emotion right when you’re trying to so
emotion right when you’re trying to so
emotion right when you’re trying to so you don’t get emotionally involved in
you don’t get emotionally involved in
you don’t get emotionally involved in the in the recreation of course you do I
the in the recreation of course you do I
the in the recreation of course you do I mean that but been gratuitous about it
mean that but been gratuitous about it
mean that but been gratuitous about it versus having ones humanity very
versus having ones humanity very
versus having ones humanity very different thinking that it belongs to
different thinking that it belongs to
different thinking that it belongs to you taking some kind of self-important
you taking some kind of self-important
you taking some kind of self-important ownership over somebody else’s trauma
ownership over somebody else’s trauma
ownership over somebody else’s trauma it’s very very different from barring
it’s very very different from barring
it’s very very different from barring rigorous witness whichever doesn’t shock
rigorous witness whichever doesn’t shock
rigorous witness whichever doesn’t shock you and terrify you and keep you up all
you and terrify you and keep you up all
you and terrify you and keep you up all night and make you sob you’re not paying
night and make you sob you’re not paying
night and make you sob you’re not paying attention but it’s not yours right right
attention but it’s not yours right right
attention but it’s not yours right right I I mean I really think that my father
I I mean I really think that my father
I I mean I really think that my father has lived and every single corner of his
has lived and every single corner of his
has lived and every single corner of his life he said to me once he was looking
life he said to me once he was looking
life he said to me once he was looking at me rather pointedly at them he said
at me rather pointedly at them he said
at me rather pointedly at them he said you know problem with most people as
you know problem with most people as
you know problem with most people as they want to stay alive for a long time
they want to stay alive for a long time
they want to stay alive for a long time without having any idea whatsoever how
without having any idea whatsoever how
without having any idea whatsoever how to live mm-hmm
to live mm-hmm
to live mm-hmm and I think by which he means was so
and I think by which he means was so
and I think by which he means was so terrified and risk-averse and we take
terrified and risk-averse and we take
terrified and risk-averse and we take such completely free ownership of stuff
such completely free ownership of stuff
such completely free ownership of stuff that doesn’t belong to us at all makes
that doesn’t belong to us at all makes
that doesn’t belong to us at all makes us make such reactive stupid decisions
us make such reactive stupid decisions
us make such reactive stupid decisions and we lose the dignity of our
and we lose the dignity of our
and we lose the dignity of our intelligence and we list a dignity of
intelligence and we list a dignity of
intelligence and we list a dignity of our soul I mean eventually there’s this
our soul I mean eventually there’s this
our soul I mean eventually there’s this great Buddhist phrase that if you do one
great Buddhist phrase that if you do one
great Buddhist phrase that if you do one feels wounded you should just make your
feels wounded you should just make your
feels wounded you should just make your target smaller when people ask you
target smaller when people ask you
target smaller when people ask you where’s home
so I think the job of the storyteller is
so I think the job of the storyteller is to be caught eviction from the tribe is
to be caught eviction from the tribe is
to be caught eviction from the tribe is to be caught the storyteller should
to be caught the storyteller should
to be caught the storyteller should court eviction from her tribe court
court eviction from her tribe court
court eviction from her tribe court eviction from her tribe right I think
eviction from her tribe right I think
eviction from her tribe right I think that you should be on the outs you if
that you should be on the outs you if
that you should be on the outs you if you’re not being pushed out by your
you’re not being pushed out by your
you’re not being pushed out by your people you’re not doing your job we are
people you’re not doing your job we are
people you’re not doing your job we are the ones who pay attention
the ones who pay attention
the ones who pay attention horrible attention to what everyone else
horrible attention to what everyone else
horrible attention to what everyone else is doing call attention to the fact get
is doing call attention to the fact get
is doing call attention to the fact get booed get yelled at get mud through but
booed get yelled at get mud through but
booed get yelled at get mud through but that is your job your job is really I
that is your job your job is really I
that is your job your job is really I mean in the old days you were a shaman
mean in the old days you were a shaman
mean in the old days you were a shaman you were the witch you were the one who
you were the witch you were the one who
you were the witch you were the one who said pay attention something is wrong I
said pay attention something is wrong I
said pay attention something is wrong I can see this I am I am your observer and
can see this I am I am your observer and
can see this I am I am your observer and I think we are we’re terrified of our
I think we are we’re terrified of our
I think we are we’re terrified of our truth-tellers and I think that that’s
truth-tellers and I think that that’s
truth-tellers and I think that that’s really the job of writers is to court
really the job of writers is to court
really the job of writers is to court eviction from any tribe so if I was to
eviction from any tribe so if I was to
eviction from any tribe so if I was to say – well I’m African night where I’m
say – well I’m African night where I’m
say – well I’m African night where I’m why i’m wyoming i or i’m USA then i’ve
why i’m wyoming i or i’m USA then i’ve
why i’m wyoming i or i’m USA then i’ve attached to me a label which is
attached to me a label which is
attached to me a label which is instantly some kind of thing I had now
instantly some kind of thing I had now
instantly some kind of thing I had now have to defend but someone says to me
have to defend but someone says to me
have to defend but someone says to me well you say you’re American you didn’t
well you say you’re American you didn’t
well you say you’re American you didn’t sound American to me and I will say
sound American to me and I will say
sound American to me and I will say that’s all quit okay well I’m African
that’s all quit okay well I’m African
that’s all quit okay well I’m African but what it can’t be a whole continent
but what it can’t be a whole continent
but what it can’t be a whole continent of what rhymes and Bob will show me your
of what rhymes and Bob will show me your
of what rhymes and Bob will show me your passport bugger
passport bugger
passport bugger British what you don’t you know you only
British what you don’t you know you only
British what you don’t you know you only were born there nothing else Oh what are
were born there nothing else Oh what are
were born there nothing else Oh what are you then I’m a storyteller and placeless
you then I’m a storyteller and placeless
you then I’m a storyteller and placeless as it should be
as it should be
as it should be and as we should all be really I think
and as we should all be really I think
and as we should all be really I think we should fight to remove ourselves of
we should fight to remove ourselves of
we should fight to remove ourselves of our labels and you know I will save us
our labels and you know I will save us
our labels and you know I will save us in all seriousness when I became a US
in all seriousness when I became a US
in all seriousness when I became a US citizen I went to camera Wyoming
citizen I went to camera Wyoming
citizen I went to camera Wyoming I was ready swear you in and Wyoming and
I was ready swear you in and Wyoming and
I was ready swear you in and Wyoming and it was a jolly difficult decision well I
it was a jolly difficult decision well I
it was a jolly difficult decision well I didn’t really feel very British that
didn’t really feel very British that
didn’t really feel very British that where I was all right about leaving up
where I was all right about leaving up
where I was all right about leaving up my British passport in general although
my British passport in general although
my British passport in general although they made me renounce the Prince I said
they made me renounce the Prince I said
they made me renounce the Prince I said you know if you mean that trap with big
you know if you mean that trap with big
you know if you mean that trap with big ears I’m
ears I’m
ears I’m that’s all right but if you mean the guy
that’s all right but if you mean the guy
that’s all right but if you mean the guy is saying Purple Rain I’m not gonna do
is saying Purple Rain I’m not gonna do
is saying Purple Rain I’m not gonna do it and then the most dignified person
it and then the most dignified person
it and then the most dignified person they could find to do the swearing-in
they could find to do the swearing-in
they could find to do the swearing-in ceremony was a dentist and it was it was
ceremony was a dentist and it was it was
ceremony was a dentist and it was it was me and there was some lot of people from
me and there was some lot of people from
me and there was some lot of people from Mexico a lot of people from ourselves a
Mexico a lot of people from ourselves a
Mexico a lot of people from ourselves a lot of people in Guatemala would escaped
lot of people in Guatemala would escaped
lot of people in Guatemala would escaped I mean after this course we went her my
I mean after this course we went her my
I mean after this course we went her my idea drank a lot of tequila uh-huh and I
idea drank a lot of tequila uh-huh and I
idea drank a lot of tequila uh-huh and I was one of the few people who didn’t
was one of the few people who didn’t
was one of the few people who didn’t have a bullet wound to show well and one
have a bullet wound to show well and one
have a bullet wound to show well and one of the things that the dentist said to
of the things that the dentist said to
of the things that the dentist said to us and this moved me incredibly now the
us and this moved me incredibly now the
us and this moved me incredibly now the one thing I did not have growing up was
one thing I did not have growing up was
one thing I did not have growing up was freedom of speech I grew up either and
freedom of speech I grew up either and
freedom of speech I grew up either and again psmith where there was censorship
again psmith where there was censorship
again psmith where there was censorship boom Robert Mugabe censorship and it’s
boom Robert Mugabe censorship and it’s
boom Robert Mugabe censorship and it’s Chile and Chiluba in Zambia he tried
Chile and Chiluba in Zambia he tried
Chile and Chiluba in Zambia he tried freedom of speech for I don’t know three
freedom of speech for I don’t know three
freedom of speech for I don’t know three minutes and like very much says it was
minutes and like very much says it was
minutes and like very much says it was the end of that and I came over here and
the end of that and I came over here and
the end of that and I came over here and I could say whatever I like and the
I could say whatever I like and the
I could say whatever I like and the dentist said to us bring us your hunger
dentist said to us bring us your hunger
dentist said to us bring us your hunger why ever you left whatever brought you
why ever you left whatever brought you
why ever you left whatever brought you here no one leaves their home because
here no one leaves their home because
here no one leaves their home because they want to they come here because
they want to they come here because
they want to they come here because they’re hungry so if you came here
they’re hungry so if you came here
they’re hungry so if you came here because you were hungry for economic
because you were hungry for economic
because you were hungry for economic growth or because you were hung hungry
growth or because you were hung hungry
growth or because you were hung hungry freedom because you were hungry for your
freedom because you were hungry for your
freedom because you were hungry for your voice bring us that thing please don’t
voice bring us that thing please don’t
voice bring us that thing please don’t ever lose your hunger because this
ever lose your hunger because this
ever lose your hunger because this country was made out of the hunger of
country was made out of the hunger of
country was made out of the hunger of displaced people which includes by the
displaced people which includes by the
displaced people which includes by the way the hunger of our native tribes who
way the hunger of our native tribes who
way the hunger of our native tribes who have been displaced I was incredibly
have been displaced I was incredibly
have been displaced I was incredibly moved and it took a long time for me to
moved and it took a long time for me to
moved and it took a long time for me to realize that the opposite and equal
realize that the opposite and equal
realize that the opposite and equal reaction of one’s freedom of speech
reaction of one’s freedom of speech
reaction of one’s freedom of speech which is the thing I hungered for my
which is the thing I hungered for my
which is the thing I hungered for my voice was the courage to hear one
voice was the courage to hear one
voice was the courage to hear one another
another
another hmm so I really thank you for that
hmm so I really thank you for that
hmm so I really thank you for that because that is something that we have I
because that is something that we have I
because that is something that we have I think in danger of losing we talk about
think in danger of losing we talk about
think in danger of losing we talk about our freedom a lot but we don’t talk
our freedom a lot but we don’t talk
our freedom a lot but we don’t talk about the courage to hear one another
about the courage to hear one another
about the courage to hear one another that’s a great I wanted to ask you one
that’s a great I wanted to ask you one
that’s a great I wanted to ask you one last question you said so many moving
last question you said so many moving
last question you said so many moving profound amazing things tonight
profound amazing things tonight
profound amazing things tonight I’m just wondering what’s the kind of if
I’m just wondering what’s the kind of if
I’m just wondering what’s the kind of if you if there were one truth that you
you if there were one truth that you
you if there were one truth that you would leave us with what’s the truth you
would leave us with what’s the truth you
would leave us with what’s the truth you would like to leave us with at the end
would like to leave us with at the end
would like to leave us with at the end of it all he’s still alive so he’s still
of it all he’s still alive so he’s still
of it all he’s still alive so he’s still going but dad took me down to the
going but dad took me down to the
going but dad took me down to the sambisa River one day and from his farm
sambisa River one day and from his farm
sambisa River one day and from his farm that he now is preparing to die on he
that he now is preparing to die on he
that he now is preparing to die on he can see Zimbabwe where my three siblings
can see Zimbabwe where my three siblings
can see Zimbabwe where my three siblings are buried and where he fought an unjust
are buried and where he fought an unjust
are buried and where he fought an unjust war for ten years she will acknowledge
war for ten years she will acknowledge
war for ten years she will acknowledge he’ll say I was brainwashed
he’ll say I was brainwashed
he’ll say I was brainwashed I spoke blood I shouldn’t have spilt but
I spoke blood I shouldn’t have spilt but
I spoke blood I shouldn’t have spilt but man will not raise a gun now so he has
man will not raise a gun now so he has
man will not raise a gun now so he has been five years ago he was some robbers
been five years ago he was some robbers
been five years ago he was some robbers came I think they got the wrong chap
came I think they got the wrong chap
came I think they got the wrong chap thought I had money who’s quite proud of
thought I had money who’s quite proud of
thought I had money who’s quite proud of the fact and they broke his nose knocked
the fact and they broke his nose knocked
the fact and they broke his nose knocked a tooth out and he hasn’t had it fixed
a tooth out and he hasn’t had it fixed
a tooth out and he hasn’t had it fixed but he says pipe fixes sticks in there
but he says pipe fixes sticks in there
but he says pipe fixes sticks in there quite well and everyone after that said
quite well and everyone after that said
quite well and everyone after that said you got to get a gun he says no no and I
you got to get a gun he says no no and I
you got to get a gun he says no no and I know what he means he’s I know what he
know what he means he’s I know what he
know what he means he’s I know what he means
means
means so we were because we weren’t even drunk
so we were because we weren’t even drunk
so we were because we weren’t even drunk it was breakfast and he said to me the
it was breakfast and he said to me the
it was breakfast and he said to me the proper journey has taken alone and if I
proper journey has taken alone and if I
proper journey has taken alone and if I told you that people died on that
told you that people died on that
told you that people died on that journey and maybe don’t come back from
journey and maybe don’t come back from
journey and maybe don’t come back from it but it will be lonely and that people
it but it will be lonely and that people
it but it will be lonely and that people will tell you you’re crazy you might not
will tell you you’re crazy you might not
will tell you you’re crazy you might not have the courage to go so I won’t tell
have the courage to go so I won’t tell
have the courage to go so I won’t tell you those things
”
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