I’ve invited here today three industry experts to have a panel discussion on
experts to have a panel discussion on
experts to have a panel discussion on software and now ladies and gentlemen
software and now ladies and gentlemen
software and now ladies and gentlemen the Macintosh software dating game
welcome to the Macintosh software dating
welcome to the Macintosh software dating game software CEOs could I please ask
game software CEOs could I please ask
game software CEOs could I please ask you to introduce yourselves hi Fred
you to introduce yourselves hi Fred
you to introduce yourselves hi Fred Gibbons president of software publishing
Gibbons president of software publishing
Gibbons president of software publishing corporation hi I’m Mitch Kapoor
corporation hi I’m Mitch Kapoor
corporation hi I’m Mitch Kapoor president of Lotus we do a product
president of Lotus we do a product
president of Lotus we do a product called one two three my name is Bill
called one two three my name is Bill
called one two three my name is Bill Gates I’m chairman of Microsoft and
Gates I’m chairman of Microsoft and
Gates I’m chairman of Microsoft and during 1984 Microsoft expects to get
during 1984 Microsoft expects to get
during 1984 Microsoft expects to get half of its revenues from Macintosh
so software magnate number three when
so software magnate number three when was your first date with Macintosh we’ve
was your first date with Macintosh we’ve
was your first date with Macintosh we’ve been working with the Mac for almost two
been working with the Mac for almost two
been working with the Mac for almost two years now and we put some of our really
years now and we put some of our really
years now and we put some of our really good people on it software CEO number
good people on it software CEO number
good people on it software CEO number three
three
three well Macintosh be the third industry
well Macintosh be the third industry
well Macintosh be the third industry standard well to create a new standard
standard well to create a new standard
standard well to create a new standard it takes something that’s not just a
it takes something that’s not just a
it takes something that’s not just a little bit different it takes something
little bit different it takes something
little bit different it takes something that’s really new and really captures
that’s really new and really captures
that’s really new and really captures people’s imagination and the Macintosh
people’s imagination and the Macintosh
people’s imagination and the Macintosh of all the machines I’ve ever seen it is
of all the machines I’ve ever seen it is
of all the machines I’ve ever seen it is the only one that meets that standard
software CEO number three describe your
software CEO number three describe your ideal relationship with Apple
ideal relationship with Apple
ideal relationship with Apple well we’ll be selling our software
well we’ll be selling our software
well we’ll be selling our software independently so the key thing is that
independently so the key thing is that
independently so the key thing is that Apple gets a lot of consistent standard
Apple gets a lot of consistent standard
Apple gets a lot of consistent standard machines out there quickly
machines out there quickly
machines out there quickly well sorry Steve time’s up we’d like to
well sorry Steve time’s up we’d like to
well sorry Steve time’s up we’d like to give Steve a few moments to decide
give Steve a few moments to decide
give Steve a few moments to decide today’s winner
who’s the winner apples are red IBM’s
who’s the winner apples are red IBM’s blue if Mac’s going to be the third
blue if Mac’s going to be the third
blue if Mac’s going to be the third milestone I need all of you
now I’d like to talk about meaningful
now I’d like to talk about meaningful partners Apple lives in an ecosystem and
it needs help from other partners it
it needs help from other partners it needs to help other partners and
needs to help other partners and
needs to help other partners and relationships that that are destructive
relationships that that are destructive
relationships that that are destructive don’t help anybody in this industry as
don’t help anybody in this industry as
don’t help anybody in this industry as it is today so during the last several
it is today so during the last several
it is today so during the last several weeks we have looked at some of the
weeks we have looked at some of the
weeks we have looked at some of the relationships and one has stood out as a
relationships and one has stood out as a
relationships and one has stood out as a relationship that hasn’t been going so
relationship that hasn’t been going so
relationship that hasn’t been going so well but have the potential I think to
well but have the potential I think to
well but have the potential I think to be great for both companies and I’d like
be great for both companies and I’d like
be great for both companies and I’d like to announce one of our first
to announce one of our first
to announce one of our first partnerships today a very very
partnerships today a very very
partnerships today a very very meaningful one and that is one with
meaningful one and that is one with
meaningful one and that is one with Microsoft
I’d like to take you through this the
I’d like to take you through this the discussions actually began because there
discussions actually began because there
discussions actually began because there was some patent disputes and rather than
was some patent disputes and rather than
was some patent disputes and rather than I know
rather than repeating history I’m
rather than repeating history I’m extremely proud of both companies that
extremely proud of both companies that
extremely proud of both companies that they have resolved these differences in
they have resolved these differences in
they have resolved these differences in a very very professional way we’re going
a very very professional way we’re going
a very very professional way we’re going to be working together on Microsoft
to be working together on Microsoft
to be working together on Microsoft Office on Internet Explorer on Java and
Office on Internet Explorer on Java and
Office on Internet Explorer on Java and I think that it’s going to lead to a
I think that it’s going to lead to a
I think that it’s going to lead to a very healthy relationship so it’s a
very healthy relationship so it’s a
very healthy relationship so it’s a package announcement today we’re very
package announcement today we’re very
package announcement today we’re very very happy about it we’re very very
very happy about it we’re very very
very happy about it we’re very very excited about it and I happen to have a
excited about it and I happen to have a
excited about it and I happen to have a special guest with me today via
special guest with me today via
special guest with me today via satellite downlink and if we could get
satellite downlink and if we could get
satellite downlink and if we could get him up on a stage right now
work that I’ve done in my career and has
work that I’ve done in my career and has been the work that I’ve done with Steve
been the work that I’ve done with Steve
been the work that I’ve done with Steve on the Macintosh whether it’s the first
on the Macintosh whether it’s the first
on the Macintosh whether it’s the first introduction or doing products like Mac
introduction or doing products like Mac
introduction or doing products like Mac Excel these have been major milestones
Excel these have been major milestones
Excel these have been major milestones and it’s very exciting to renew our
and it’s very exciting to renew our
and it’s very exciting to renew our commitment to the Macintosh we think
commitment to the Macintosh we think
commitment to the Macintosh we think Apple makes a huge contribution of the
Apple makes a huge contribution of the
Apple makes a huge contribution of the computer industry we think it’s going to
computer industry we think it’s going to
computer industry we think it’s going to be a lot of fun helping out and we look
be a lot of fun helping out and we look
be a lot of fun helping out and we look forward to the feedback from all of
forward to the feedback from all of
forward to the feedback from all of youse as we move forward doing more
youse as we move forward doing more
youse as we move forward doing more Macintosh software Thanks
Thank You Phil you know where we are
Thank You Phil you know where we are right now is we’re shepherding some of
right now is we’re shepherding some of
right now is we’re shepherding some of the greatest assets in the computer
the greatest assets in the computer
the greatest assets in the computer industries and if we want to move
industries and if we want to move
industries and if we want to move forward it’s the Apple healthy and
forward it’s the Apple healthy and
forward it’s the Apple healthy and prospering again we have to let go of a
prospering again we have to let go of a
prospering again we have to let go of a few things here we have to let go of
few things here we have to let go of
few things here we have to let go of this notion that for Apple to win
this notion that for Apple to win
this notion that for Apple to win Microsoft has to lose
embracing notion but for Apple to win
embracing notion but for Apple to win Apple has to do a really good job and
and if others are going to help us
and if others are going to help us that’s great because we need all the
that’s great because we need all the
that’s great because we need all the help we can get and if we screw up and
help we can get and if we screw up and
help we can get and if we screw up and we don’t do a good job it’s not somebody
we don’t do a good job it’s not somebody
we don’t do a good job it’s not somebody else’s fault it’s our fault so I think
else’s fault it’s our fault so I think
else’s fault it’s our fault so I think that’s a very important perspective I
that’s a very important perspective I
that’s a very important perspective I think if we want Microsoft Office on the
think if we want Microsoft Office on the
think if we want Microsoft Office on the Mac we better treat the company that
Mac we better treat the company that
Mac we better treat the company that puts it out with a little bit of
puts it out with a little bit of
puts it out with a little bit of gratitude
gratitude
gratitude we’d like their software so
the era the era of of setting this up is
the era the era of of setting this up is a competition between Apple and
a competition between Apple and
a competition between Apple and Microsoft is over as far as I’m
Microsoft is over as far as I’m
Microsoft is over as far as I’m concerned this is about getting a fat
concerned this is about getting a fat
concerned this is about getting a fat healthy this is about Apple being able
healthy this is about Apple being able
healthy this is about Apple being able to make incredibly great contributions
to make incredibly great contributions
to make incredibly great contributions to the industry to get healthy and
to the industry to get healthy and
to the industry to get healthy and prosper again
prosper again
prosper again you know sometimes points of view can
you know sometimes points of view can
you know sometimes points of view can really make you look at things
really make you look at things
really make you look at things differently we here a new point of view
differently we here a new point of view
differently we here a new point of view like for me when I was looking at the
like for me when I was looking at the
like for me when I was looking at the statistics and it hit me that Apple is
statistics and it hit me that Apple is
statistics and it hit me that Apple is the largest education company in the
the largest education company in the
the largest education company in the world that was like a whole to lightning
world that was like a whole to lightning
world that was like a whole to lightning that’s huge
that’s huge
that’s huge what an incredible base to build off of
what an incredible base to build off of
what an incredible base to build off of another bolt of lightning is that Apple
another bolt of lightning is that Apple
another bolt of lightning is that Apple Plus Microsoft equals 100% of the
Plus Microsoft equals 100% of the
Plus Microsoft equals 100% of the desktop computer market and so
desktop computer market and so
desktop computer market and so whatever Apple and Microsoft agree to do
whatever Apple and Microsoft agree to do
whatever Apple and Microsoft agree to do it’s a standard and I think that you
it’s a standard and I think that you
it’s a standard and I think that you will be seeing us work with Microsoft
will be seeing us work with Microsoft
will be seeing us work with Microsoft more because they’re the only other
more because they’re the only other
more because they’re the only other player in the desktop industry and I
player in the desktop industry and I
player in the desktop industry and I think you’ll be seeing Microsoft want to
think you’ll be seeing Microsoft want to
think you’ll be seeing Microsoft want to work with Apple more because Apple is
work with Apple more because Apple is
work with Apple more because Apple is the only other player in the desktop
the only other player in the desktop
the only other player in the desktop industries so I hope we have even more
industries so I hope we have even more
industries so I hope we have even more cooperation in the future because the
cooperation in the future because the
cooperation in the future because the industry wants it
what you think each
what you think each is contributed to the computer and
is contributed to the computer and
is contributed to the computer and technology industry starting with you
technology industry starting with you
technology industry starting with you Steve for Bill and vice versa
Steve for Bill and vice versa
Steve for Bill and vice versa um well you know Bill built the first
um well you know Bill built the first
um well you know Bill built the first software company in the industry and I
software company in the industry and I
software company in the industry and I think he built the first software
think he built the first software
think he built the first software company before anybody really in our
company before anybody really in our
company before anybody really in our industry knew what a software company
industry knew what a software company
industry knew what a software company was except for these guys and that was
was except for these guys and that was
was except for these guys and that was huge that was really huge and the
huge that was really huge and the
huge that was really huge and the business model that they ended up
business model that they ended up
business model that they ended up pursuing turned out to be the one that
pursuing turned out to be the one that
pursuing turned out to be the one that worked really well you know for the
worked really well you know for the
worked really well you know for the industry so I think but the biggest
industry so I think but the biggest
industry so I think but the biggest thing was Bill was really focused on
thing was Bill was really focused on
thing was Bill was really focused on software before almost anybody else had
software before almost anybody else had
software before almost anybody else had a clue that it was really the software
a clue that it was really the software
a clue that it was really the software that’s well that’s what I see I mean a
that’s well that’s what I see I mean a
that’s well that’s what I see I mean a lot of other things you could say but
lot of other things you could say but
lot of other things you could say but that’s the high order bit and I think
that’s the high order bit and I think
that’s the high order bit and I think building a company is really hard and
building a company is really hard and
building a company is really hard and and it requires it requires your
and it requires it requires your
and it requires it requires your greatest persuasive abilities to hire
greatest persuasive abilities to hire
greatest persuasive abilities to hire the best people you can and keep them
the best people you can and keep them
the best people you can and keep them keep them keep them at your company and
keep them keep them at your company and
keep them keep them at your company and keep them working you know doing the
keep them working you know doing the
keep them working you know doing the best work of their lives hopefully and
best work of their lives hopefully and
best work of their lives hopefully and Bill’s been able to stay with it for all
Bill’s been able to stay with it for all
Bill’s been able to stay with it for all these years so bill how about the
these years so bill how about the
these years so bill how about the contribution of Steve and Apple well
contribution of Steve and Apple well
contribution of Steve and Apple well first I want to clip I am not fake Steve
first I want to clip I am not fake Steve
first I want to clip I am not fake Steve Jobs
you know what Steve’s done is quite
you know what Steve’s done is quite phenomenal you know if you look back to
phenomenal you know if you look back to
phenomenal you know if you look back to 1977 that Apple 2 computer the idea that
1977 that Apple 2 computer the idea that
1977 that Apple 2 computer the idea that it would be a mass-market machine now
it would be a mass-market machine now
it would be a mass-market machine now the bet that was made there by Apple
the bet that was made there by Apple
the bet that was made there by Apple uniquely there were other people with
uniquely there were other people with
uniquely there were other people with products but the idea that this could be
products but the idea that this could be
products but the idea that this could be an incredible empowering phenomena Apple
an incredible empowering phenomena Apple
an incredible empowering phenomena Apple pursued that dream you know then one of
pursued that dream you know then one of
pursued that dream you know then one of the most fun things we did to go to the
the most fun things we did to go to the
the most fun things we did to go to the mat was the Macintosh and that was so
mat was the Macintosh and that was so
mat was the Macintosh and that was so risky and people may not remember that
risky and people may not remember that
risky and people may not remember that Apple really bet the company Lisa hadn’t
Apple really bet the company Lisa hadn’t
Apple really bet the company Lisa hadn’t done that well and you know some people
done that well and you know some people
done that well and you know some people were saying ok that general approach
were saying ok that general approach
were saying ok that general approach wasn’t good but the team that Steve
wasn’t good but the team that Steve
wasn’t good but the team that Steve built even within the company to pursue
built even within the company to pursue
built even within the company to pursue that even some days it felt a little
that even some days it felt a little
that even some days it felt a little ahead of its time
ahead of its time
ahead of its time I don’t remember that twiggy disk drive
I don’t remember that twiggy disk drive
I don’t remember that twiggy disk drive Andrew 28k yeah and AH the Twiggy disk
Andrew 28k yeah and AH the Twiggy disk
Andrew 28k yeah and AH the Twiggy disk drive yes Steve gave a speech once which
drive yes Steve gave a speech once which
drive yes Steve gave a speech once which is one of my favorites where he talked
is one of my favorites where he talked
is one of my favorites where he talked about in a certain sense we build the
about in a certain sense we build the
about in a certain sense we build the products that we want to use ourselves
products that we want to use ourselves
products that we want to use ourselves and you know so he’s really pursued that
and you know so he’s really pursued that
and you know so he’s really pursued that with incredible taste and elegance that
with incredible taste and elegance that
with incredible taste and elegance that has had a huge impact on the industry
has had a huge impact on the industry
has had a huge impact on the industry and his ability to always come around
and his ability to always come around
and his ability to always come around and figure out where that next bet
and figure out where that next bet
and figure out where that next bet should be has been phenomenal you know
should be has been phenomenal you know
should be has been phenomenal you know Apple literally was failing when Steve
Apple literally was failing when Steve
Apple literally was failing when Steve went back and reenact a ‘king that have
went back and reenact a ‘king that have
went back and reenact a ‘king that have been phenomenal so the industry’s
been phenomenal so the industry’s
been phenomenal so the industry’s benefited immensely from his his work we
benefited immensely from his his work we
benefited immensely from his his work we both been lucky to be part of it but you
both been lucky to be part of it but you
both been lucky to be part of it but you know I’d say he’s contributed as much as
know I’d say he’s contributed as much as
know I’d say he’s contributed as much as anyone
most we will I some people here but I
most we will I some people here but I don’t think most people know that there
don’t think most people know that there
don’t think most people know that there was actually a some Microsoft software
was actually a some Microsoft software
was actually a some Microsoft software in that Apple 2 computer you want to
in that Apple 2 computer you want to
in that Apple 2 computer you want to talk about what happened there how that
talk about what happened there how that
talk about what happened there how that how that occurred
how that occurred
how that occurred yeah the there’d been the Altair and a
yeah the there’d been the Altair and a
yeah the there’d been the Altair and a few other companies actually about 24
few other companies actually about 24
few other companies actually about 24 that had done various machines but the
that had done various machines but the
that had done various machines but the 77 group included the pet trs-80 Amador
77 group included the pet trs-80 Amador
77 group included the pet trs-80 Amador in the Commodore pet trs-80 in the Apple
in the Commodore pet trs-80 in the Apple
in the Commodore pet trs-80 in the Apple 2 the original Apple 2 basic the integer
2 the original Apple 2 basic the integer
2 the original Apple 2 basic the integer basic we had nothing to do with but then
basic we had nothing to do with but then
basic we had nothing to do with but then there was a floating point one where and
there was a floating point one where and
there was a floating point one where and I mostly worked with walls on that I
I mostly worked with walls on that I
I mostly worked with walls on that I made and we tell this story it was was
made and we tell this story it was was
made and we tell this story it was was my partner we started out was guy who
my partner we started out was guy who
my partner we started out was guy who Steve Wozniak brilliant brilliant guy he
Steve Wozniak brilliant brilliant guy he
Steve Wozniak brilliant brilliant guy he writes this basic that is like the best
writes this basic that is like the best
writes this basic that is like the best basic on the planet it does stuff that
basic on the planet it does stuff that
basic on the planet it does stuff that no other basics ever done you don’t have
no other basics ever done you don’t have
no other basics ever done you don’t have to run it to find your error messages it
to run it to find your error messages it
to run it to find your error messages it finds them when you type it in stuff
finds them when you type it in stuff
finds them when you type it in stuff it’s perfect in every way
it’s perfect in every way
it’s perfect in every way except for one thing which is it’s it’s
except for one thing which is it’s it’s
except for one thing which is it’s it’s just fixed point right it’s not it’s not
just fixed point right it’s not it’s not
just fixed point right it’s not it’s not floating point and so we’re getting a
floating point and so we’re getting a
floating point and so we’re getting a lot of input that people want this basic
lot of input that people want this basic
lot of input that people want this basic to be floating point and like we’re
to be floating point and like we’re
to be floating point and like we’re beggin laws please please make this
beggin laws please please make this
beggin laws please please make this floating pose we how many people are an
floating pose we how many people are an
floating pose we how many people are an app will me yeah the beggin laws to make
app will me yeah the beggin laws to make
app will me yeah the beggin laws to make this floating point and he just never
this floating point and he just never
this floating point and he just never does it you know when he wrote it by
does it you know when he wrote it by
does it you know when he wrote it by hand on paper I mean you know he didn’t
hand on paper I mean you know he didn’t
hand on paper I mean you know he didn’t we he didn’t have an assemble or
we he didn’t have an assemble or
we he didn’t have an assemble or anything to write it with it was all
anything to write it with it was all
anything to write it with it was all just written on paper he typing in he
just written on paper he typing in he
just written on paper he typing in he just never got around to making a by any
just never got around to making a by any
just never got around to making a by any point well this is one of the mysteries
point well this is one of the mysteries
point well this is one of the mysteries of life I don’t know but he never did
of life I don’t know but he never did
of life I don’t know but he never did and so you know Microsoft had this very
and so you know Microsoft had this very
and so you know Microsoft had this very popular really good floating-point basic
popular really good floating-point basic
popular really good floating-point basic that we ended up going to them and
that we ended up going to them and
that we ended up going to them and saying help and and how much was that I
saying help and and how much was that I
saying help and and how much was that I think you were telling us her it was
think you were telling us her it was
think you were telling us her it was $31,000 that Apple paid you for the
$31,000 that Apple paid you for the
$31,000 that Apple paid you for the floating-point basic and I flew out to
floating-point basic and I flew out to
floating-point basic and I flew out to Apple I spent two days there getting the
Apple I spent two days there getting the
Apple I spent two days there getting the cassette the cassette tapes were the
cassette the cassette tapes were the
cassette the cassette tapes were the main ways that people stored things at
main ways that people stored things at
main ways that people stored things at the time I and that was fun after the
the time I and that was fun after the
the time I and that was fun after the 512 K Mac was done the product line just
512 K Mac was done the product line just
512 K Mac was done the product line just didn’t evolve as fast
didn’t evolve as fast
didn’t evolve as fast Steve wasn’t there as it needed to and
Steve wasn’t there as it needed to and
Steve wasn’t there as it needed to and we were actually negotiate
we were actually negotiate
we were actually negotiate a deal to invest and make some
a deal to invest and make some
a deal to invest and make some commitments on things with Gil Amelio
commitments on things with Gil Amelio
commitments on things with Gil Amelio and no seriously and we mean don’t be
and no seriously and we mean don’t be
and no seriously and we mean don’t be mean to him I’m sorry just saying the
mean to him I’m sorry just saying the
mean to him I’m sorry just saying the words Gayle Emilio you can see uh and so
words Gayle Emilio you can see uh and so
words Gayle Emilio you can see uh and so I was calling him up on the weekend and
I was calling him up on the weekend and
I was calling him up on the weekend and all this stuff and next thing I knew
all this stuff and next thing I knew
all this stuff and next thing I knew Steve called me up and said don’t worry
Steve called me up and said don’t worry
Steve called me up and said don’t worry about that negotiation with Gil Amelio
about that negotiation with Gil Amelio
about that negotiation with Gil Amelio uh you can just talk to me now nice and
uh you can just talk to me now nice and
uh you can just talk to me now nice and loud yo Gil was a nice guy but he had a
loud yo Gil was a nice guy but he had a
loud yo Gil was a nice guy but he had a saying
saying
saying he said Apple is like a ship with a hole
he said Apple is like a ship with a hole
he said Apple is like a ship with a hole in the bottom leaking water and my job
in the bottom leaking water and my job
in the bottom leaking water and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right
is to get the ship pointed in the right
is to get the ship pointed in the right direction
you approach the same opportunity so
you approach the same opportunity so very differently what did you learn
very differently what did you learn
very differently what did you learn about running your own business that you
about running your own business that you
about running your own business that you wish you had thought of sooner or
wish you had thought of sooner or
wish you had thought of sooner or thought of first by watching the other
thought of first by watching the other
thought of first by watching the other guy oh I’d give a lot to have Steve’s
guy oh I’d give a lot to have Steve’s
guy oh I’d give a lot to have Steve’s taste I mean he has natural not a joke
taste I mean he has natural not a joke
taste I mean he has natural not a joke at all I think in terms of intuitive
at all I think in terms of intuitive
at all I think in terms of intuitive taste both for people and products you
taste both for people and products you
taste both for people and products you know we we sat in Mac product reviews
know we we sat in Mac product reviews
know we we sat in Mac product reviews where there were questions about
where there were questions about
where there were questions about software choices how things would be
software choices how things would be
software choices how things would be done that i–dude is an engineering
done that i–dude is an engineering
done that i–dude is an engineering question you know and and you know
question you know and and you know
question you know and and you know that’s just how my mind works and I’d
that’s just how my mind works and I’d
that’s just how my mind works and I’d see Steve make the decision based on a
see Steve make the decision based on a
see Steve make the decision based on a sense of people and product that it was
sense of people and product that it was
sense of people and product that it was even hard for me to explain heat the way
even hard for me to explain heat the way
even hard for me to explain heat the way he does things it’s just different and
he does things it’s just different and
he does things it’s just different and you know I think it’s magical and in
you know I think it’s magical and in
you know I think it’s magical and in that case Wow
that case Wow
that case Wow you know because woz and I started the
you know because woz and I started the
you know because woz and I started the company based on doing the whole banana
company based on doing the whole banana
company based on doing the whole banana we weren’t so good at partnering with
we weren’t so good at partnering with
we weren’t so good at partnering with people and you know actually the funny
people and you know actually the funny
people and you know actually the funny thing is Microsoft’s one of the few
thing is Microsoft’s one of the few
thing is Microsoft’s one of the few companies we were able to partner with
companies we were able to partner with
companies we were able to partner with that actually worked for both companies
that actually worked for both companies
that actually worked for both companies and we weren’t so good at that as where
and we weren’t so good at that as where
and we weren’t so good at that as where as where Bill and Microsoft were really
as where Bill and Microsoft were really
as where Bill and Microsoft were really good at it because they didn’t make the
good at it because they didn’t make the
good at it because they didn’t make the whole thing in the early days and they
whole thing in the early days and they
whole thing in the early days and they they they learned how to partner with
they they learned how to partner with
they they learned how to partner with people really well and I think if Apple
people really well and I think if Apple
people really well and I think if Apple could have had that a little more of
could have had that a little more of
could have had that a little more of that in his DNA it would have served it
that in his DNA it would have served it
that in his DNA it would have served it extremely well and and I don’t think
extremely well and and I don’t think
extremely well and and I don’t think Apple learned that until you know
Apple learned that until you know
Apple learned that until you know several a few decades later
but you in that video we also you said
but you in that video we also you said you had decided to that it was
you had decided to that it was
you had decided to that it was destructive to have this competition
destructive to have this competition
destructive to have this competition with Microsoft now obviously Apple was
with Microsoft now obviously Apple was
with Microsoft now obviously Apple was in a lot of trouble and I presume that
in a lot of trouble and I presume that
in a lot of trouble and I presume that there was some tactical or strategic
there was some tactical or strategic
there was some tactical or strategic reason for that as well as just wanting
reason for that as well as just wanting
reason for that as well as just wanting to be a nice guy right I mean you know
to be a nice guy right I mean you know
to be a nice guy right I mean you know Apple was in very serious trouble and
Apple was in very serious trouble and
Apple was in very serious trouble and what was really clear was that if the
what was really clear was that if the
what was really clear was that if the game was a zero-sum game where for Apple
game was a zero-sum game where for Apple
game was a zero-sum game where for Apple to win Microsoft had to lose then Apple
to win Microsoft had to lose then Apple
to win Microsoft had to lose then Apple was going to lose but that’s a lot of
was going to lose but that’s a lot of
was going to lose but that’s a lot of people’s heads were still in that place
people’s heads were still in that place
people’s heads were still in that place why was that from your perspective well
why was that from your perspective well
why was that from your perspective well a lot of people’s heads were in that
a lot of people’s heads were in that
a lot of people’s heads were in that place at Apple and and even in the
place at Apple and and even in the
place at Apple and and even in the customer base because you know applet
customer base because you know applet
customer base because you know applet invented a lot of this stuff and
invented a lot of this stuff and
invented a lot of this stuff and Microsoft was being successful and Apple
Microsoft was being successful and Apple
Microsoft was being successful and Apple wasn’t and there was jealousy and this
wasn’t and there was jealousy and this
wasn’t and there was jealousy and this and that there was just a lot of reasons
and that there was just a lot of reasons
and that there was just a lot of reasons for it that don’t matter
for it that don’t matter
for it that don’t matter but the net result of it was was there
but the net result of it was was there
but the net result of it was was there were too many people at Apple and in the
were too many people at Apple and in the
were too many people at Apple and in the Apple ecosystem playing the game of for
Apple ecosystem playing the game of for
Apple ecosystem playing the game of for Apple to win Microsoft has to lose and
Apple to win Microsoft has to lose and
Apple to win Microsoft has to lose and it was clear that you didn’t have to
it was clear that you didn’t have to
it was clear that you didn’t have to play that game because Apple wasn’t
play that game because Apple wasn’t
play that game because Apple wasn’t gonna beat Microsoft Apple didn’t have
gonna beat Microsoft Apple didn’t have
gonna beat Microsoft Apple didn’t have to beat Microsoft Apple had to remember
to beat Microsoft Apple had to remember
to beat Microsoft Apple had to remember who Apple was because it forgotten who
who Apple was because it forgotten who
who Apple was because it forgotten who Apple was and so to me it was pretty
Apple was and so to me it was pretty
Apple was and so to me it was pretty essential to break that paradigm and it
essential to break that paradigm and it
essential to break that paradigm and it was it was also important that you know
was it was also important that you know
was it was also important that you know Microsoft was was the biggest software
Microsoft was was the biggest software
Microsoft was was the biggest software developer outside of Apple developing
developer outside of Apple developing
developer outside of Apple developing for the Mac and na so you know that was
for the Mac and na so you know that was
for the Mac and na so you know that was it was just crazy what was happening at
it was just crazy what was happening at
it was just crazy what was happening at that time and Apple was very weak and so
that time and Apple was very weak and so
that time and Apple was very weak and so I called bill up and we tried to patch
I called bill up and we tried to patch
I called bill up and we tried to patch things up and since that time we’ve had
things up and since that time we’ve had
things up and since that time we’ve had a team that’s fairly dedicated to doing
a team that’s fairly dedicated to doing
a team that’s fairly dedicated to doing the Mac applications and they’ve always
the Mac applications and they’ve always
the Mac applications and they’ve always been treated kind of in a unique way so
been treated kind of in a unique way so
been treated kind of in a unique way so that they can have a pretty special
that they can have a pretty special
that they can have a pretty special relationship with Apple and that’s
relationship with Apple and that’s
relationship with Apple and that’s worked out very well in fact every
worked out very well in fact every
worked out very well in fact every couple years or so there’s been
couple years or so there’s been
couple years or so there’s been something new that we’ve been able to do
something new that we’ve been able to do
something new that we’ve been able to do on the Mac and a great great business
on the Mac and a great great business
on the Mac and a great great business for us and and it’s actually the
for us and and it’s actually the
for us and and it’s actually the relationship between the Mac development
relationship between the Mac development
relationship between the Mac development team at Microsoft and Apple is a great
team at Microsoft and Apple is a great
team at Microsoft and Apple is a great relationship it’s one of our best
relationship it’s one of our best
relationship it’s one of our best developer relationships
so your question was about whether I
so your question was about whether I wish I didn’t have to go into Apple
wish I didn’t have to go into Apple
wish I didn’t have to go into Apple everyday no if you if you envy bill a
everyday no if you if you envy bill a
everyday no if you if you envy bill a bit the second act that he has oh no I
bit the second act that he has oh no I
bit the second act that he has oh no I think it’s grilled see thing else I
think it’s grilled see thing else I
think it’s grilled see thing else I think the world’s a better place because
think the world’s a better place because
think the world’s a better place because bill realized that his goal isn’t to be
bill realized that his goal isn’t to be
bill realized that his goal isn’t to be the richest guy in the cemetery right
the richest guy in the cemetery right
the richest guy in the cemetery right that’s a good thing and so he’s doing a
that’s a good thing and so he’s doing a
that’s a good thing and so he’s doing a lot of good with the money that he made
lot of good with the money that he made
lot of good with the money that he made you know I’m sure bill was was like me
you know I’m sure bill was was like me
you know I’m sure bill was was like me in this way I mean I grew up fairly
in this way I mean I grew up fairly
in this way I mean I grew up fairly middle class lower middle class and and
middle class lower middle class and and
middle class lower middle class and and and I never really cared much about
and I never really cared much about
and I never really cared much about money and Apple was so successful early
money and Apple was so successful early
money and Apple was so successful early on in life that I I was very lucky that
on in life that I I was very lucky that
on in life that I I was very lucky that I didn’t have to care about money then
I didn’t have to care about money then
I didn’t have to care about money then and so I’ve been able to focus on work
and so I’ve been able to focus on work
and so I’ve been able to focus on work and then later on my family and I sort
and then later on my family and I sort
and then later on my family and I sort of look at us as to the luckiest guys in
of look at us as to the luckiest guys in
of look at us as to the luckiest guys in the planet because we found what we
the planet because we found what we
the planet because we found what we loved to do and we were at the right
loved to do and we were at the right
loved to do and we were at the right place at the right time and we’ve gotten
place at the right time and we’ve gotten
place at the right time and we’ve gotten to go to work every day with super
to go to work every day with super
to go to work every day with super bright people for 30 years and and do
bright people for 30 years and and do
bright people for 30 years and and do what we love doing
what we love doing
what we love doing and so it’s hard to be happier than that
and so it’s hard to be happier than that
and so it’s hard to be happier than that you know that your family and that what
you know that your family and that what
you know that your family and that what more can you ask for and so I don’t
more can you ask for and so I don’t
more can you ask for and so I don’t think about legacy much I just think
think about legacy much I just think
think about legacy much I just think about being able to get up every day and
about being able to get up every day and
about being able to get up every day and go in and hang around these great people
go in and hang around these great people
go in and hang around these great people and hopefully create something that
and hopefully create something that
and hopefully create something that other people will love as much as we do
other people will love as much as we do
other people will love as much as we do and if we can do that that’s that’s
and if we can do that that’s that’s
and if we can do that that’s that’s that’s great
I mean you’re obviously going to go down
I mean you’re obviously going to go down in history history books already said
in history history books already said
in history history books already said kind of thing but what’s the greatest
kind of thing but what’s the greatest
kind of thing but what’s the greatest misunderstanding between you in your
misunderstanding between you in your
misunderstanding between you in your relationship and about each other what
relationship and about each other what
relationship and about each other what would you say would be this idea of
would you say would be this idea of
would you say would be this idea of catfight this idea of what which one of
catfight this idea of what which one of
catfight this idea of what which one of the many we’ve kept our marriage secret
the many we’ve kept our marriage secret
the many we’ve kept our marriage secret for over a decade now Canada that trip
for over a decade now Canada that trip
for over a decade now Canada that trip to Canada
was there I don’t think either of us
was there I don’t think either of us have anything to complain about in
have anything to complain about in
have anything to complain about in general and I know that the the projects
general and I know that the the projects
general and I know that the the projects like the Mac project you know was just
like the Mac project you know was just
like the Mac project you know was just an incredible thing a fun thing where we
an incredible thing a fun thing where we
an incredible thing a fun thing where we were taking a risk we did look a lot
were taking a risk we did look a lot
were taking a risk we did look a lot younger in that video we did you look 12
younger in that video we did you look 12
younger in that video we did you look 12 and that’s what I try and was 12 but no
and that’s what I try and was 12 but no
and that’s what I try and was 12 but no it’s been fun to work together I
it’s been fun to work together I
it’s been fun to work together I actually kind of miss some of the people
actually kind of miss some of the people
actually kind of miss some of the people aren’t around anymore you know people
aren’t around anymore you know people
aren’t around anymore you know people come and go in this industry it’s nice
come and go in this industry it’s nice
come and go in this industry it’s nice when somebody sticks around and they
when somebody sticks around and they
when somebody sticks around and they have some context of all the things that
have some context of all the things that
have some context of all the things that have worked and not worked and the
have worked and not worked and the
have worked and not worked and the industry gets all we’re all crazy about
industry gets all we’re all crazy about
industry gets all we’re all crazy about some new thing you know like you know
some new thing you know like you know
some new thing you know like you know the the there’s always this paradigm of
the the there’s always this paradigm of
the the there’s always this paradigm of the company that successful is going to
the company that successful is going to
the company that successful is going to go away and stuff like that it’s nice to
go away and stuff like that it’s nice to
go away and stuff like that it’s nice to have people who’ve seen the waves and
have people who’ve seen the waves and
have people who’ve seen the waves and waves of that and yet been willing when
waves of that and yet been willing when
waves of that and yet been willing when it when it counted to take the risk
it when it counted to take the risk
it when it counted to take the risk to bring in something new has it been
to bring in something new has it been
to bring in something new has it been important to the one last question and
important to the one last question and
important to the one last question and then we’ll we’ll go to the I didn’t
then we’ll we’ll go to the I didn’t
then we’ll we’ll go to the I didn’t answer this because he just said I don’t
answer this because he just said I don’t
answer this because he just said I don’t answer that is secret game okay yes I
answer that is secret game okay yes I
answer that is secret game okay yes I thought that was your answer that that
thought that was your answer that that
thought that was your answer that that wasn’t my answer you know when Bill and
wasn’t my answer you know when Bill and
wasn’t my answer you know when Bill and I first met each other and worked
I first met each other and worked
I first met each other and worked together in the early days generally we
together in the early days generally we
together in the early days generally we were both the youngest guys in the room
were both the youngest guys in the room
were both the youngest guys in the room right individually or together I’m about
right individually or together I’m about
right individually or together I’m about six months older than he is but roughly
six months older than he is but roughly
six months older than he is but roughly the same age and now when we’re working
the same age and now when we’re working
the same age and now when we’re working at our respective companies I don’t know
at our respective companies I don’t know
at our respective companies I don’t know about you but I’m the oldest guy in the
about you but I’m the oldest guy in the
about you but I’m the oldest guy in the room most of the time and that’s why I
room most of the time and that’s why I
room most of the time and that’s why I love being here
so happy to oblige happy to oblige and
so happy to oblige happy to oblige and uh you know I think of I think of most
uh you know I think of I think of most
uh you know I think of I think of most things in life as either a Bob Dylan or
things in life as either a Bob Dylan or
things in life as either a Bob Dylan or Beatles song but there’s that that one
Beatles song but there’s that that one
Beatles song but there’s that that one line and that one Beatle song you and I
line and that one Beatle song you and I
line and that one Beatle song you and I have memories longer than the road that
have memories longer than the road that
have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead and that’s that’s
stretches out ahead and that’s that’s
stretches out ahead and that’s that’s clearly true here at well you know what
clearly true here at well you know what
clearly true here at well you know what I think we should end it there let’s
I think we should end it there let’s
I think we should end it there let’s just end it there I have another idea
just end it there I have another idea
just end it there I have another idea thank you thank you very much
thank so much for lighting let us know
thank so much for lighting let us know what you think in the comments below and
what you think in the comments below and
what you think in the comments below and continue to
”
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