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Acuerdos entre quienes están en desacuerdo | Juanita Goebertus | TEDxBogotaMujeres


and

[Music]

that the dining table can not

speak neither of politics nor of religion

speaks very badly about our ability to

discuss with those who think differently

that our grandmothers with their wisdom

of course so that we do not fight in the

table come to the conclusion that they are

such difficult issues that my daughter is

better not to talk about that will not be that

soon is that this cousin is a little

scrambled a little bit and then

you know that grandpa is a little

conservative a little fat and then it comes out

suddenly some very atte ay results

that the other side there is a very camandule

was and then this becomes a son and

simply the conversation

even in our families

closes because to talk to those who

they think different

it costs us a lot and we got to the

solution of simply shutting myself

I grew up outside of Bogota in a

semi – rural area that day was

spectacular for any child full

of trees full of dogs but in the

nights was dark and I was lonely and

I have the memory that my main

nightmare for many years was that I

I slept and in the middle of the night

a guerrilla shot and that my parents

they were kidnapped and this looked

nourished of course by the images

typical that all as Colombians

we grew up with them guerrillas

kidnapping drug trafficker recruiting

minors generating processes of violence

sexual even within their own

rows and that nightmare was and full

images nourished others so I went

learning in school that soon

some day they had ideals but that

on the road with drug trafficking the

they sold all and they are a band of

narcos

these and that great nightmare became

suddenly at my job because in January

of 2012

they invited me and I felt very honored to

be part of the delegation of

government

at the bar conversation table

and suddenly they who had been

for so long my nightmare

they were becoming my interlocutors with

whom I had to try to have

a conversation between people very

different to try to look for a

agreement and that experience I allow myself

start to see that there are tools for

to be able to talk between the different ones and

it is possible to reach agreements even

between those who think different and

I would like to show you that those

tools serve not only in a

peace process but at that table of

dining room to be able to talk to the cousin

with aunt with water

the first and most important thing that you have to

stand in the shoes of others there

to hear them

you have to understand what your fears are

what do they think about their

interests

what is the group in which they are

what are the differences there

within your group and of course it ‘s

easy when one can relate to

somehow a mom who knows love

that he feels for a son or some

way a person who has suffered a

loving disappointment and knows what a

tusa and then you can relate to

that other person or a man who has

felt a balonazo we already know where and

can relate to the pain that

it has caused it but it is much more

difficult when we have not been there that

happens for example with a person who

passing immigration by its origin or by

your religion is stopped or what happens

example with a woman who received a

direct sexual assault as per

example that you put your hand under

the false are victims and although we have not

been there somehow we have left

a little bit easier related

but perhaps the most difficult case is

how to put yourself in the shoes of those who

they have been radicals of those who even

they have used violence

of those people that we think that

his ideas are so damning that his

methods are so reprehensible that they never

we could stand in the shoes of

those people and that was a bit the

process that started for me when

I lived a year and a half in Havana

working at this table

conversations in the peace process

I remember when I first started going

I had a little diary I got it

he still keeps well

was going to write what was happening each of

these days of the year and a half that happens

there and I have only written the first

page the first page

It’s the first day I went running around

the mornings we lived in a set in

some houses in which on one side the

laguito was the guerrilla and the other

side were us and I went out to

run in the mornings and in my first

back I met with Ivan Marquez

one of the commanders of this guerrilla

on the bicycle and I arrived at my house

very fast write me out in telling

with Ivan Marquez on the bicycle

panic and then in the afternoon after

that we have finished one of the

internal work meetings

I went to a nearby hotel I was going to buy a

water and I found another of the

comandantes marcos calarcá taking themselves

a beer and get there fast

frames calarcá taking a beer and the

second day was a day of work in

which I had to find some

people who were other human beings

who thought of course so

totally different but where no longer

I wrote nothing more envy because what

there was an interlocutor with whom

I had to try to find a

agreement and it was very interesting to me

when on October 2 after that

many of us that we had

worked on this

we heard the news that he had won

the no to the approval of the final agreement

after a democratic process and

transparent

from the next day the first

what I thought is maybe I have to

approaching this new situation of

the same way I approached

in that moment to try to face

the guerrilla for the first time and it was very

interesting to me because I started to

think and talk to the people who were

so hurt what had happened and I

they said is the last straw is that they are a pure

electoral interest is the people who voted

for him not what happens is that he wants the

war the people who voted for him is not

besides liar is saying things

that are not true all over more

is also that they are bosc they deserve the

country that they have and I the first thing that

I thought was and how about

I try to stop myself also in those other

shoes

what are the fears of those who

they voted for the no

what are the reasons no longer from the

bad faith no longer assuming that guerrillas

and who voted for the no but

any other

Uncle the cousin are talking and bad

faith because I do not try to take a step

back and from that suddenly that

person is speaking in good faith and

try to understand what those are

What are these interests?

then a process of treating

to understand what those will be

interests of not like standing on those

shoes like trying to overcome the

distrust how to overcome those processes

to stop thinking that there is simply

bad faith in the other to try to

rebuild and stand in the shoes of

another is the first strategy that I

leads to the second and is fundamental

one has to be able to approximate these

processes of agreeing between

who are in disagreement

from a win point of view wins if I

I start from the basis that I am going to

win and the other one is going to lose

there is no chance that we

let ‘s agree because we are in

two poles totally opposite and that

it implies recognizing something that is very

basic but it’s very difficult and it’s that

I’m going to have to give a little

there is something of that original position of mine

which is the ideal that is where I believe

which is the one that would defend a layer and

sword that yes I am willing to get

to an agreement with that other with which

I do not agree

I have to start from the basis that I’m going to

have to give in a bit and this is a

very interesting process in which it was

interesting to be able to find a

guerrilla that for years came saying

that they were never going to accept any

type of judicialization that they were

some rebels who were entitled

have rebelled they found was the

bust and that therefore did not accept

no justice but with the passing of

the years of the process

they came to say it ‘s okay

We accept that a court will judge us

but if that court also judged

those others who have committed crimes

in the conflict

then one begins to have a

position the church good me from a

conceptual point of view as a lawyer

I believe that any crime

international committed because there is

committed is equally serious and we can

find a basis of agreement but more

interesting we still had the other side

some victims telling us we do not

we believe in ordinary justice

it is a justice that generates impunity

that for years has resolved our

cases that for years I did not find

missing people

then we started to find a

possible figure of wins wins

how to generate a solution that could

part and part generate a situation

of winning for the guerrilla not to be the

only ones that went to the wall of the

justice but they were also

who have committed crimes

international from others

sectors of society and of

victims saying this is a court

independent independent

different from ordinary justice that does not

has worked for years and I believe that

we are again on a stage

similar in this new scenario after

that the plebiscite in Colombia in

where one can try to look

just alternatives to see how

generates situations wins wins and is at

that is expensive talked to different

friends who gave him the yes they say is that

a peace that is with uribe

that’s the last straw is he does not want the

peace this has to be torpedoed what

wants is an electoral process and I

constantly what I tell you is nothing

would help more to build a

peace agreement that is justly made

a picture in which all fit and that the

Peace be just what I give

political revenues to all sectors

of the society

nothing would be better for Colombia than

different sectors found in the

search for that new agreement

what gives them political revenues

even electoral what brings me

finally to the latest strategy and it’s

that we can build agreements between

those who disagree implies

necessarily have an activity

immense creative of what it is about is

to be able to ensure that one is no longer

seeing simply opposite poles like

if they were the only alternatives

possible but it does not start a process

constructive creative to be able to search

other alternatives and that was what I

more work throughout this time

I was in Havana like trying to

understand the other

I insist but then from there as

look for a different alternative

I give you an example that was very

interesting at the beginning of the

discussion of the point of victims in the

habana the face they said I need that

it is clear that we rebel

against an unjust repressive state

and that therefore the original fault is

the state

of course the government the other side

saying gentlemen us after

that you have been doing for 52 years

war

corresponding trying to protect

the population there we are not going to put

of affection are two visions completely

different from the history of this country

we come to an alternative formula

just creative that allowed that

the advanced dialogue and it was saying ‘good

let’s bring 12 historians and let’s try

to see if those two historians

they agree on a single story

of the Colombian armed conflict but if

do not let them write their reports and

after three months 12 reports arrived

about Colombian history

none gives you the reason or the

state nor the farc

none excuse my fault to the one or the

another but it does a lot analysis

more complex and that allowed us

move forward again I think that what we

we face today in colombia is

just to search for this type

of creative alternatives where by

example one can reconcile between a

vision of those who led the no

for example focused on the prison in the

sanction saying that there has to be

jail or the other side the parties

being we are not going to leave

Weapons after 52 years of war

to go to jail and we have to

to be able to find a solution that

make sure that there is no impunity

that generates a feeling of justice

for all Colombians

but that allows justly to achieve

termination of this war

then that search for ideas

creative of new alternatives is what

that allows us in any context

even in the most situations

everyday to achieve consensus among

who think differently at the end of

this depends if we can achieve that we see

the world not in whites and blacks but rather

if we see a broad shade of gray

we all fit into a solution that is

really consensus among those who

we think different

thank you very much

[Applause]

bush

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