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HipMojo 29B: Marketing Fails – Krispy Kreme, Saturn, Netflix


welcome back to hit mojo 29 segment two

welcome back to hit mojo 29 segment two joining me today is Harold Simkins

joining me today is Harold Simkins

joining me today is Harold Simkins professor of marketing at John Wilson

professor of marketing at John Wilson

professor of marketing at John Wilson School of Business and Concordia so I

School of Business and Concordia so I

School of Business and Concordia so I want to talk to you now about the role

want to talk to you now about the role

want to talk to you now about the role of the CMO and the role of vice

of the CMO and the role of vice

of the CMO and the role of vice president of marketing and basically the

president of marketing and basically the

president of marketing and basically the marketing function within the boardroom

marketing function within the boardroom

marketing function within the boardroom within you know dude does the marketing

within you know dude does the marketing

within you know dude does the marketing chief really have the ear of the CEO and

chief really have the ear of the CEO and

chief really have the ear of the CEO and not in the context of let’s do this

not in the context of let’s do this

not in the context of let’s do this campaign let’s hire this agency I’m

campaign let’s hire this agency I’m

campaign let’s hire this agency I’m guessing that’s their job and the seal

guessing that’s their job and the seal

guessing that’s their job and the seal will listen but if a CMO says this is a

will listen but if a CMO says this is a

will listen but if a CMO says this is a crappy idea or a crappy product or this

crappy idea or a crappy product or this

crappy idea or a crappy product or this is crazy how often does a CEO listen

is crazy how often does a CEO listen

is crazy how often does a CEO listen this is the chief yeah all right we

this is the chief yeah all right we

this is the chief yeah all right we think a good chief executive officer

think a good chief executive officer

think a good chief executive officer would have confidence and as CMO because

would have confidence and as CMO because

would have confidence and as CMO because he or she has hired that person and is

he or she has hired that person and is

he or she has hired that person and is believed in their their qualifications

believed in their their qualifications

believed in their their qualifications so and it’s rare that an idea would get

so and it’s rare that an idea would get

so and it’s rare that an idea would get that far where a chief marketing officer

that far where a chief marketing officer

that far where a chief marketing officer would have to say to his or her superior

would have to say to his or her superior

would have to say to his or her superior that this is a bad idea the idea should

that this is a bad idea the idea should

that this is a bad idea the idea should be killed before it even gets to that

be killed before it even gets to that

be killed before it even gets to that stage okay so what is your thought on

stage okay so what is your thought on

stage okay so what is your thought on CEOs who appear in ads that’s usually

CEOs who appear in ads that’s usually

CEOs who appear in ads that’s usually the kiss of death like when the CEO of

the kiss of death like when the CEO of

the kiss of death like when the CEO of daimlerchrysler appeared that’s when

daimlerchrysler appeared that’s when

daimlerchrysler appeared that’s when people said this company’s going to go

people said this company’s going to go

people said this company’s going to go downhill it went downhill so it is is

downhill it went downhill so it is is

downhill it went downhill so it is is when the CEO is cast in an ad spot is

when the CEO is cast in an ad spot is

when the CEO is cast in an ad spot is that usually the idea of the marketing

that usually the idea of the marketing

that usually the idea of the marketing people or is it the CEO who thinks this

people or is it the CEO who thinks this

people or is it the CEO who thinks this is a great idea or is it the ad agency

is a great idea or is it the ad agency

is a great idea or is it the ad agency that’s trying to butter up the CEO

that’s trying to butter up the CEO

that’s trying to butter up the CEO oftentimes state the ad agency has to

oftentimes state the ad agency has to

oftentimes state the ad agency has to drink the CEO has to drag the CEO in

drink the CEO has to drag the CEO in

drink the CEO has to drag the CEO in kicking and screaming that oftentimes

kicking and screaming that oftentimes

kicking and screaming that oftentimes they don’t want to appear in front of

they don’t want to appear in front of

they don’t want to appear in front of the camera but there have been some

the camera but there have been some

the camera but there have been some tremendous success stories such as Lee

tremendous success stories such as Lee

tremendous success stories such as Lee Iacocca with Chrysler when they turned

Iacocca with Chrysler when they turned

Iacocca with Chrysler when they turned him around when they turn the company

him around when they turn the company

him around when they turn the company around the Wendy CEO Dave of course

around the Wendy CEO Dave of course

around the Wendy CEO Dave of course dates days mr. Dave Thomas Dave Thomas

dates days mr. Dave Thomas Dave Thomas

dates days mr. Dave Thomas Dave Thomas when the crisis with maple leaf foods

when the crisis with maple leaf foods

when the crisis with maple leaf foods Listeria breakup occurred I forget his

Listeria breakup occurred I forget his

Listeria breakup occurred I forget his first name was lives names McCain and he

first name was lives names McCain and he

first name was lives names McCain and he being front and center in the

being front and center in the

being front and center in the advertising and PR for that cut for the

advertising and PR for that cut for the

advertising and PR for that cut for the campaign to assuage the negative

campaign to assuage the negative

campaign to assuage the negative opinions that performing and reasonably

opinions that performing and reasonably

opinions that performing and reasonably solved negative opinion

solved negative opinion

solved negative opinion that were developing out there so

that were developing out there so

that were developing out there so there’s oftentimes a good argument to

there’s oftentimes a good argument to

there’s oftentimes a good argument to put a CEO in the ads and commercials i

put a CEO in the ads and commercials i

put a CEO in the ads and commercials i think the use of Galen Weston in in a

think the use of Galen Weston in in a

think the use of Galen Weston in in a Loblaws commercials was effective okay

Loblaws commercials was effective okay

Loblaws commercials was effective okay so this is an interesting thing whereby

so this is an interesting thing whereby

so this is an interesting thing whereby I immediately assume the CEOs being

I immediately assume the CEOs being

I immediately assume the CEOs being casted ads as a negative because I think

casted ads as a negative because I think

casted ads as a negative because I think people tend to remember the disasters

people tend to remember the disasters

people tend to remember the disasters more so than you know all the cruises

more so than you know all the cruises

more so than you know all the cruises that don’t crash nobody remembers them

that don’t crash nobody remembers them

that don’t crash nobody remembers them but we remember Titanic and whatnot not

but we remember Titanic and whatnot not

but we remember Titanic and whatnot not very tasteful analogy but is that

very tasteful analogy but is that

very tasteful analogy but is that something where whenever there’s a

something where whenever there’s a

something where whenever there’s a mistake is is do we only really like and

mistake is is do we only really like and

mistake is is do we only really like and do you guys like in marketing classrooms

do you guys like in marketing classrooms

do you guys like in marketing classrooms do you only focus on the negatives or

do you only focus on the negatives or

do you only focus on the negatives or more so on the negatives as case studies

more so on the negatives as case studies

more so on the negatives as case studies or is it more of the success cases what

or is it more of the success cases what

or is it more of the success cases what are we more prone to remember we always

are we more prone to remember we always

are we more prone to remember we always talk about New Coke for example but how

talk about New Coke for example but how

talk about New Coke for example but how often do we talk about let’s say cokes

often do we talk about let’s say cokes

often do we talk about let’s say cokes acquisition of vitamin water which while

acquisition of vitamin water which while

acquisition of vitamin water which while expensive get got them a foothold into

expensive get got them a foothold into

expensive get got them a foothold into something yeah I mean successes name III

something yeah I mean successes name III

something yeah I mean successes name III amazing like for every 10 ideas that you

amazing like for every 10 ideas that you

amazing like for every 10 ideas that you have that’s a marketing mishap how many

have that’s a marketing mishap how many

have that’s a marketing mishap how many do you think of that our let’s say Smash

do you think of that our let’s say Smash

do you think of that our let’s say Smash Hitz and Grand Slams um Facebook how so

Hitz and Grand Slams um Facebook how so

Hitz and Grand Slams um Facebook how so which one well Facebook as an idea okay

which one well Facebook as an idea okay

which one well Facebook as an idea okay there’s a business idea Oh amazon.com as

there’s a business idea Oh amazon.com as

there’s a business idea Oh amazon.com as a business idea Oh BMW resurrecting the

a business idea Oh BMW resurrecting the

a business idea Oh BMW resurrecting the mini bread how important is the brand

mini bread how important is the brand

mini bread how important is the brand like Amazon start off as abracadabra in

like Amazon start off as abracadabra in

like Amazon start off as abracadabra in your opinion in terms of wearing the

your opinion in terms of wearing the

your opinion in terms of wearing the branding hat would that brand would have

branding hat would that brand would have

branding hat would that brand would have ever been as successful as Amazon or you

ever been as successful as Amazon or you

ever been as successful as Amazon or you think it doesn’t matter especially in

think it doesn’t matter especially in

think it doesn’t matter especially in the agent probably could be but they

the agent probably could be but they

the agent probably could be but they might have had to spend a lot more money

might have had to spend a lot more money

might have had to spend a lot more money on a brand like abracadabra then on

on a brand like abracadabra then on

on a brand like abracadabra then on amazon but amazon doesn’t mean anything

amazon but amazon doesn’t mean anything

amazon but amazon doesn’t mean anything anyway um well I think it’s more

anyway um well I think it’s more

anyway um well I think it’s more associate like people probably recognize

associate like people probably recognize

associate like people probably recognize it a bit more than abracadabra just the

it a bit more than abracadabra just the

it a bit more than abracadabra just the spelling alone or could be but with the

spelling alone or could be but with the

spelling alone or could be but with the what does the Amazon River have to do

what does the Amazon River have to do

what does the Amazon River have to do with books jungle chaos finding no yeah

with books jungle chaos finding no yeah

with books jungle chaos finding no yeah that might be a stretch okay so let’s

that might be a stretch okay so let’s

that might be a stretch okay so let’s now get to the list what are some of

now get to the list what are some of

now get to the list what are some of your top marketing disasters one that

your top marketing disasters one that

your top marketing disasters one that came to mind this morning I said well

came to mind this morning I said well

came to mind this morning I said well why don’t I thought about this one

why don’t I thought about this one

why don’t I thought about this one before remember Krispy Kreme yes if

before remember Krispy Kreme yes if

before remember Krispy Kreme yes if member the lineups of people to get the

member the lineups of people to get the

member the lineups of people to get the donuts

donuts

donuts remember the buzz that was incredible i

remember the buzz that was incredible i

remember the buzz that was incredible i mean lining up for a product that wasn’t

mean lining up for a product that wasn’t

mean lining up for a product that wasn’t that much different from what the

that much different from what the

that much different from what the competition dunkin donuts or two

competition dunkin donuts or two

competition dunkin donuts or two importance offered to be honest with you

importance offered to be honest with you

importance offered to be honest with you i really never understood what the fuss

i really never understood what the fuss

i really never understood what the fuss was all about maybe what the fuss was a

was all about maybe what the fuss was a

was all about maybe what the fuss was a bit was the fuss it was just that word

bit was the fuss it was just that word

bit was the fuss it was just that word about just that does that you know get

about just that does that you know get

about just that does that you know get no Tom he was in line for hours they

no Tom he was in line for hours they

no Tom he was in line for hours they were giving away doughnuts and people

were giving away doughnuts and people

were giving away doughnuts and people would line up to get the free doughnuts

would line up to get the free doughnuts

would line up to get the free doughnuts and that thing went to the top hit the

and that thing went to the top hit the

and that thing went to the top hit the stratosphere and sunk really really

stratosphere and sunk really really

stratosphere and sunk really really quickly why did it sink that’s a good

quickly why did it sink that’s a good

quickly why did it sink that’s a good question there were accounting

question there were accounting

question there were accounting irregularities in the government I think

irregularities in the government I think

irregularities in the government I think it expanded too quickly and they weren’t

it expanded too quickly and they weren’t

it expanded too quickly and they weren’t able to make back the investment fast

able to make back the investment fast

able to make back the investment fast enough that they’d put in to expand but

enough that they’d put in to expand but

enough that they’d put in to expand but there’s an example of something that was

there’s an example of something that was

there’s an example of something that was really hot and died really really

really hot and died really really

really hot and died really really quickly um other examples of failures

quickly um other examples of failures

quickly um other examples of failures that I would note Webvan we heard our

that I would note Webvan we heard our

that I would note Webvan we heard our version here called peachtree um when

version here called peachtree um when

version here called peachtree um when we’re going to be buying everything on

we’re going to be buying everything on

we’re going to be buying everything on the web including groceries and of

the web including groceries and of

the web including groceries and of course they were online grocery outlets

course they were online grocery outlets

course they were online grocery outlets I never understood have that idea even

I never understood have that idea even

I never understood have that idea even got off the ground because the deliver

got off the ground because the deliver

got off the ground because the deliver groceries to people’s homes you need a

groceries to people’s homes you need a

groceries to people’s homes you need a window they were talking about

window they were talking about

window they were talking about installing lockable refrigerators

installing lockable refrigerators

installing lockable refrigerators outside people’s homes so they could put

outside people’s homes so they could put

outside people’s homes so they could put the perishables in there and just the

the perishables in there and just the

the perishables in there and just the cost of doing that you mentioned the

cost of doing that you mentioned the

cost of doing that you mentioned the ford edsel I didn’t mention the ford

ford edsel I didn’t mention the ford

ford edsel I didn’t mention the ford edsel but the ford edsel was not not

edsel but the ford edsel was not not

edsel but the ford edsel was not not today previously what I usually do I can

today previously what I usually do I can

today previously what I usually do I can give you an even more contemporary

give you an even more contemporary

give you an even more contemporary example cuz the ansel examples been

example cuz the ansel examples been

example cuz the ansel examples been beaten to death Saturn the only late

beaten to death Saturn the only late

beaten to death Saturn the only late 1980s early 1900s GM set up this company

1980s early 1900s GM set up this company

1980s early 1900s GM set up this company a different kind of car from a different

a different kind of car from a different

a different kind of car from a different kind of car company the idea was to have

kind of car company the idea was to have

kind of car company the idea was to have a fighter brand so Brandon would fight

a fighter brand so Brandon would fight

a fighter brand so Brandon would fight the imports particularly the Japanese it

the imports particularly the Japanese it

the imports particularly the Japanese it was built in separate plants they did

was built in separate plants they did

was built in separate plants they did things like when you went to pick your

things like when you went to pick your

things like when you went to pick your new car up was like the delivery of a

new car up was like the delivery of a

new car up was like the delivery of a baby with balloons yeah they treated

baby with balloons yeah they treated

baby with balloons yeah they treated people respectfully so and I had some my

people respectfully so and I had some my

people respectfully so and I had some my student resources on so well like when

student resources on so well like when

student resources on so well like when women would shocking

women would shocking

women would shocking 7 the car dealership he has to be

7 the car dealership he has to be

7 the car dealership he has to be treated you know not assaulted being

treated you know not assaulted being

treated you know not assaulted being honest with women and treating women the

honest with women and treating women the

honest with women and treating women the same way they would treat men

spontaneously Saturn owners formed

spontaneously Saturn owners formed groups that have annual picnics and

groups that have annual picnics and

groups that have annual picnics and safaris and that kind of thing the brand

safaris and that kind of thing the brand

safaris and that kind of thing the brand really had a strong loyal following even

really had a strong loyal following even

really had a strong loyal following even though the car was pretty lousy so he

though the car was pretty lousy so he

though the car was pretty lousy so he read car reviews for similar vehicles

read car reviews for similar vehicles

read car reviews for similar vehicles the Saturn usually came glanced it was

the Saturn usually came glanced it was

the Saturn usually came glanced it was plastic a noisy not very powerful it was

plastic a noisy not very powerful it was

plastic a noisy not very powerful it was was two years ago Jim shut the whole

was two years ago Jim shut the whole

was two years ago Jim shut the whole thing down and one of the reasons that

thing down and one of the reasons that

thing down and one of the reasons that the Saturn was a failure was they could

the Saturn was a failure was they could

the Saturn was a failure was they could never get their constant of control or

never get their constant of control or

never get their constant of control or at least their cost base was too high to

at least their cost base was too high to

at least their cost base was too high to begin with and so they couldn’t make

begin with and so they couldn’t make

begin with and so they couldn’t make money so a brand that resonated well

money so a brand that resonated well

money so a brand that resonated well with consumers died because of accosting

with consumers died because of accosting

with consumers died because of accosting situation that James costs including

situation that James costs including

situation that James costs including some buds legacy costs for pensions and

some buds legacy costs for pensions and

some buds legacy costs for pensions and all that kind of stuff that unions that

all that kind of stuff that unions that

all that kind of stuff that unions that negotiated we’re just too hot and they

negotiated we’re just too hot and they

negotiated we’re just too hot and they could never get the cost down so they

could never get the cost down so they

could never get the cost down so they could price the Saturn to effectively

could price the Saturn to effectively

could price the Saturn to effectively compete with the Japanese and ultimately

compete with the Japanese and ultimately

compete with the Japanese and ultimately than the Korean competition I want to

than the Korean competition I want to

than the Korean competition I want to talk about one more example and then

talk about one more example and then

talk about one more example and then we’re gonna take a break come back and

we’re gonna take a break come back and

we’re gonna take a break come back and just talk a bit more about New Coke

just talk a bit more about New Coke

just talk a bit more about New Coke since that is the anniversary so last

since that is the anniversary so last

since that is the anniversary so last year Netflix did what any CEO CTO any

year Netflix did what any CEO CTO any

year Netflix did what any CEO CTO any logical person would say was a smart

logical person would say was a smart

logical person would say was a smart move they basically said the futures and

move they basically said the futures and

move they basically said the futures and streaming yep so we’re going to spin off

streaming yep so we’re going to spin off

streaming yep so we’re going to spin off the old business of DVDs through the

the old business of DVDs through the

the old business of DVDs through the mail now they rebranded it as quick stir

mail now they rebranded it as quick stir

mail now they rebranded it as quick stir yep and basically net fixed Netflix

yep and basically net fixed Netflix

yep and basically net fixed Netflix would represent the future and you know

would represent the future and you know

would represent the future and you know if you look at this at arm’s length

if you look at this at arm’s length

if you look at this at arm’s length you’re like that makes sense i mean but

you’re like that makes sense i mean but

you’re like that makes sense i mean but much room but the company got decimated

much room but the company got decimated

much room but the company got decimated by consumers investors said there’s too

by consumers investors said there’s too

by consumers investors said there’s too much uncertainty and what was a 13

much uncertainty and what was a 13

much uncertainty and what was a 13 billion dollar stock i think ended up

billion dollar stock i think ended up

billion dollar stock i think ended up being you know like a four billion

being you know like a four billion

being you know like a four billion dollar stock at us they change the

dollar stock at us they change the

dollar stock at us they change the pricing strategy so yeah take a lose

pricing strategy so yeah take a lose

pricing strategy so yeah take a lose that i mean take us through the netflix

that i mean take us through the netflix

that i mean take us through the netflix episode is this a case of overtime they

episode is this a case of overtime they

episode is this a case of overtime they will be vindicated or is this just that

will be vindicated or is this just that

will be vindicated or is this just that everything went wrong was their foolish

everything went wrong was their foolish

everything went wrong was their foolish sort of marketing I don’t think

sort of marketing I don’t think

sort of marketing I don’t think everything went wrong they made a bad

everything went wrong they made a bad

everything went wrong they made a bad pricing decision people felt they’re

pricing decision people felt they’re

pricing decision people felt they’re being overcharged and that was that can

being overcharged and that was that can

being overcharged and that was that can a company that does something like that

a company that does something like that

a company that does something like that cover and the answer is absolutely yes

cover and the answer is absolutely yes

cover and the answer is absolutely yes Yuri jig your pricing strategy you stay

Yuri jig your pricing strategy you stay

Yuri jig your pricing strategy you stay out there with advertising that makes

out there with advertising that makes

out there with advertising that makes people feel good about the brand maybe

people feel good about the brand maybe

people feel good about the brand maybe you get people incentives and purchase

you get people incentives and purchase

you get people incentives and purchase bonuses to buy your product offset some

bonuses to buy your product offset some

bonuses to buy your product offset some of that opinion about your negative some

of that opinion about your negative some

of that opinion about your negative some that negative opinion about your pricing

that negative opinion about your pricing

that negative opinion about your pricing and over time you can overcome okay

and over time you can overcome okay

and over time you can overcome okay we’re going to take a short break we’re

we’re going to take a short break we’re

we’re going to take a short break we’re going to come back and focus a bit on

going to come back and focus a bit on

going to come back and focus a bit on New Coke all right back

”

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