hello everyone and welcome to another google+ hangout i’m excited to have with
google+ hangout i’m excited to have with
google+ hangout i’m excited to have with me Kevin Cruz who is a serial
me Kevin Cruz who is a serial
me Kevin Cruz who is a serial entrepreneur he’s an author he’s built a
entrepreneur he’s an author he’s built a
entrepreneur he’s an author he’s built a number of different businesses he’s an
number of different businesses he’s an
number of different businesses he’s an angel investor and I’m going to ask him
angel investor and I’m going to ask him
angel investor and I’m going to ask him about how he got started his lessons and
about how he got started his lessons and
about how he got started his lessons and some advice for entrepreneurs and
some advice for entrepreneurs and
some advice for entrepreneurs and welcome to the show Kevin thanks having
welcome to the show Kevin thanks having
welcome to the show Kevin thanks having great to be here been following your
great to be here been following your
great to be here been following your stuff for years i’m honored to be on the
stuff for years i’m honored to be on the
stuff for years i’m honored to be on the show so for people who may not be
show so for people who may not be
show so for people who may not be familiar with you yet can you give
familiar with you yet can you give
familiar with you yet can you give people a little bit more of a background
people a little bit more of a background
people a little bit more of a background about who you are which all about yeah
about who you are which all about yeah
about who you are which all about yeah sure I am well I I live outside of
sure I am well I I live outside of
sure I am well I I live outside of Philadelphia in Bucks County
Philadelphia in Bucks County
Philadelphia in Bucks County Pennsylvania got three great kids and in
Pennsylvania got three great kids and in
Pennsylvania got three great kids and in the past had you know started a series
the past had you know started a series
the past had you know started a series of different tech companies primarily
of different tech companies primarily
of different tech companies primarily online learning and education companies
online learning and education companies
online learning and education companies some that did well others that that
some that did well others that that
some that did well others that that didn’t and since selling my last
didn’t and since selling my last
didn’t and since selling my last business I guess almost about six years
business I guess almost about six years
business I guess almost about six years ago now that’s really when I did a
ago now that’s really when I did a
ago now that’s really when I did a personal pivot and have spent a lot more
personal pivot and have spent a lot more
personal pivot and have spent a lot more time you know writing books doing talks
time you know writing books doing talks
time you know writing books doing talks doing board work nonprofit work and
doing board work nonprofit work and
doing board work nonprofit work and things like that great what Tom for
things like that great what Tom for
things like that great what Tom for entrepreneurs who are starting up so i
entrepreneurs who are starting up so i
entrepreneurs who are starting up so i started in tech too and I’m i gotchu you
started in tech too and I’m i gotchu you
started in tech too and I’m i gotchu you guys had a seller transition where I’m
guys had a seller transition where I’m
guys had a seller transition where I’m you know helping entrepreneurs out what
you know helping entrepreneurs out what
you know helping entrepreneurs out what what prompted that change what prompted
what prompted that change what prompted
what prompted that change what prompted that desire to you know so you sold and
that desire to you know so you sold and
that desire to you know so you sold and then instead of saying hey I’m going to
then instead of saying hey I’m going to
then instead of saying hey I’m going to go smoke another tech company I want to
go smoke another tech company I want to
go smoke another tech company I want to give back and start helping
give back and start helping
give back and start helping entrepreneurs what what led to that
entrepreneurs what what led to that
entrepreneurs what what led to that realization yeah and you know that’s a
realization yeah and you know that’s a
realization yeah and you know that’s a that’s a big question of them because I
that’s a big question of them because I
that’s a big question of them because I think entrepreneurs it’s almost like
think entrepreneurs it’s almost like
think entrepreneurs it’s almost like it’s almost like we have a genetic
it’s almost like we have a genetic
it’s almost like we have a genetic defect I have a friend who calls it a
defect I have a friend who calls it a
defect I have a friend who calls it a genetic defect where we just over and
genetic defect where we just over and
genetic defect where we just over and over again and uh you know to be candid
over again and uh you know to be candid
over again and uh you know to be candid it was a point in my life where I done
it was a point in my life where I done
it was a point in my life where I done so many and doing that entrepreneurial
so many and doing that entrepreneurial
so many and doing that entrepreneurial grind I think I was a little tired and
grind I think I was a little tired and
grind I think I was a little tired and burnt out I’ve got three great kids
burnt out I’ve got three great kids
burnt out I’ve got three great kids still all in school age and thought it’d
still all in school age and thought it’d
still all in school age and thought it’d be a great time to you know be dad first
be a great time to you know be dad first
be a great time to you know be dad first and start to give back a little bit and
and start to give back a little bit and
and start to give back a little bit and just you know focus on a quality of life
just you know focus on a quality of life
just you know focus on a quality of life that was
that was
that was a little different than the than the
a little different than the than the
a little different than the than the entrepreneurial grind but but I gotta
entrepreneurial grind but but I gotta
entrepreneurial grind but but I gotta say I mean it’s been over half a decade
say I mean it’s been over half a decade
say I mean it’s been over half a decade of leaving that game and that it doesn’t
of leaving that game and that it doesn’t
of leaving that game and that it doesn’t go away you know so I’ve been able to
go away you know so I’ve been able to
go away you know so I’ve been able to scratch it a little bit by advising
scratch it a little bit by advising
scratch it a little bit by advising entrepreneurs encouraging them doing
entrepreneurs encouraging them doing
entrepreneurs encouraging them doing some investments but it’s not the same
some investments but it’s not the same
some investments but it’s not the same as a betting on yourself and going all
as a betting on yourself and going all
as a betting on yourself and going all in so I don’t know another year or two
in so I don’t know another year or two
in so I don’t know another year or two I’m comin yeah baby he’s got it cool uh
I’m comin yeah baby he’s got it cool uh
I’m comin yeah baby he’s got it cool uh what what what advice do you commonly
what what what advice do you commonly
what what what advice do you commonly give so I mean you’re investing in
give so I mean you’re investing in
give so I mean you’re investing in startups you’re investing in companies
startups you’re investing in companies
startups you’re investing in companies your your you know giving them advice on
your your you know giving them advice on
your your you know giving them advice on how to grow what are some of the common
how to grow what are some of the common
how to grow what are some of the common issues that you believe are important to
issues that you believe are important to
issues that you believe are important to help entrepreneurs get past those early
help entrepreneurs get past those early
help entrepreneurs get past those early stumbling blocks yeah i mean i think
stumbling blocks yeah i mean i think
stumbling blocks yeah i mean i think that when i get involved it is early so
that when i get involved it is early so
that when i get involved it is early so I think there’s different lessons and
I think there’s different lessons and
I think there’s different lessons and different things to to know at different
different things to to know at different
different things to to know at different stages um you know I’m uh working as an
stages um you know I’m uh working as an
stages um you know I’m uh working as an executive coach a startup coach to a
executive coach a startup coach to a
executive coach a startup coach to a non-profit education company in Pakistan
non-profit education company in Pakistan
non-profit education company in Pakistan right now for example is an American guy
right now for example is an American guy
right now for example is an American guy who’s in Pakistan and has started this
who’s in Pakistan and has started this
who’s in Pakistan and has started this venture and it’s a great case of
venture and it’s a great case of
venture and it’s a great case of tremendous you know intelligence ideas
tremendous you know intelligence ideas
tremendous you know intelligence ideas enthusiasm put in his own you know dent
enthusiasm put in his own you know dent
enthusiasm put in his own you know dent in the universe and where I can add
in the universe and where I can add
in the universe and where I can add value is and where you know some of his
value is and where you know some of his
value is and where you know some of his questions are is everything from the
questions are is everything from the
questions are is everything from the business standpoint of you know focusing
business standpoint of you know focusing
business standpoint of you know focusing on on the things like culture mission
on on the things like culture mission
on on the things like culture mission vision values and things that sometimes
vision values and things that sometimes
vision values and things that sometimes feel like boy I’d rather debug this code
feel like boy I’d rather debug this code
feel like boy I’d rather debug this code or go call that customer but ultimately
or go call that customer but ultimately
or go call that customer but ultimately are very important in the long run and
are very important in the long run and
are very important in the long run and at the same time you know I encourage
at the same time you know I encourage
at the same time you know I encourage entrepreneurs to really speak to someone
entrepreneurs to really speak to someone
entrepreneurs to really speak to someone just so they can have some balance and
just so they can have some balance and
just so they can have some balance and focus in their own life I mean it’s
focus in their own life I mean it’s
focus in their own life I mean it’s something I missed I mean it’s it’s do
something I missed I mean it’s it’s do
something I missed I mean it’s it’s do what I say not what I do because I was
what I say not what I do because I was
what I say not what I do because I was just focused on the business and doing
just focused on the business and doing
just focused on the business and doing that classic seven-day workweek around
that classic seven-day workweek around
that classic seven-day workweek around the clock runnin and gunnin and it can
the clock runnin and gunnin and it can
the clock runnin and gunnin and it can take a toll on you you know mentally
take a toll on you you know mentally
take a toll on you you know mentally physically and now with hindsight I
physically and now with hindsight I
physically and now with hindsight I realize you’re
realize you’re
realize you’re not in the best place to be thinking
not in the best place to be thinking
not in the best place to be thinking creatively and with innovation and
creatively and with innovation and
creatively and with innovation and you’re not gonna be able to coach those
you’re not gonna be able to coach those
you’re not gonna be able to coach those around you when you yourself are burnt
around you when you yourself are burnt
around you when you yourself are burnt out and depleted so you know when i’m
out and depleted so you know when i’m
out and depleted so you know when i’m working with entrepreneurs now young
working with entrepreneurs now young
working with entrepreneurs now young younger newer entrepreneurs you know
younger newer entrepreneurs you know
younger newer entrepreneurs you know half the stuff is about the business but
half the stuff is about the business but
half the stuff is about the business but the other half is really about just life
the other half is really about just life
the other half is really about just life and ultimately that all there is it’s
and ultimately that all there is it’s
and ultimately that all there is it’s it’s all the same thing right Saul as
it’s all the same thing right Saul as
it’s all the same thing right Saul as goes the leader goes the rest of the
goes the leader goes the rest of the
goes the leader goes the rest of the company and you really need to be
company and you really need to be
company and you really need to be holistic about that as well how are you
holistic about that as well how are you
holistic about that as well how are you I’m curious so what you know you got
I’m curious so what you know you got
I’m curious so what you know you got that itch you want to scratch it in the
that itch you want to scratch it in the
that itch you want to scratch it in the year we’ll see how long it lasts until
year we’ll see how long it lasts until
year we’ll see how long it lasts until you could die back in how are you going
you could die back in how are you going
you could die back in how are you going to manage that now you have a wife you
to manage that now you have a wife you
to manage that now you have a wife you have kids you know that they’re growing
have kids you know that they’re growing
have kids you know that they’re growing up how are you going to manage that
up how are you going to manage that
up how are you going to manage that grind in your next startup so that it
grind in your next startup so that it
grind in your next startup so that it doesn’t take such a huge toll on you
doesn’t take such a huge toll on you
doesn’t take such a huge toll on you personally well it’s even worse than
personally well it’s even worse than
personally well it’s even worse than ever because I have the kids but I don’t
ever because I have the kids but I don’t
ever because I have the kids but I don’t have the wife I’m a single dad so okay
have the wife I’m a single dad so okay
have the wife I’m a single dad so okay there you go so any given day I’m you
there you go so any given day I’m you
there you go so any given day I’m you know making peanut butter jelly
know making peanut butter jelly
know making peanut butter jelly sandwiches or taking someone to you know
sandwiches or taking someone to you know
sandwiches or taking someone to you know check out a strep throat or a school
check out a strep throat or a school
check out a strep throat or a school thing or whatever and I think that’s
thing or whatever and I think that’s
thing or whatever and I think that’s part of what’s kept me on the sidelines
part of what’s kept me on the sidelines
part of what’s kept me on the sidelines for a while but I also think you know
for a while but I also think you know
for a while but I also think you know with some some experience comes some
with some some experience comes some
with some some experience comes some wisdom and realizing that you know you
wisdom and realizing that you know you
wisdom and realizing that you know you you don’t have to do it all yourself I
you don’t have to do it all yourself I
you don’t have to do it all yourself I mean that was my big it was like a light
mean that was my big it was like a light
mean that was my big it was like a light switch went off I mean my first company
switch went off I mean my first company
switch went off I mean my first company I was 21 years old and and thought I was
I was 21 years old and and thought I was
I was 21 years old and and thought I was you know doing that startup grind but I
you know doing that startup grind but I
you know doing that startup grind but I thought I had all the answers I was
thought I had all the answers I was
thought I had all the answers I was selfish I didn’t want to share equity I
selfish I didn’t want to share equity I
selfish I didn’t want to share equity I didn’t want to pay people well and I was
didn’t want to pay people well and I was
didn’t want to pay people well and I was out of business and in debt in one year
out of business and in debt in one year
out of business and in debt in one year and the second business I had a partner
and the second business I had a partner
and the second business I had a partner that’s you know in a step in the right
that’s you know in a step in the right
that’s you know in a step in the right direction and yet didn’t know how to
direction and yet didn’t know how to
direction and yet didn’t know how to fight constructively didn’t know how to
fight constructively didn’t know how to
fight constructively didn’t know how to communicate constructively didn’t know
communicate constructively didn’t know
communicate constructively didn’t know how to you didn’t think I needed a board
how to you didn’t think I needed a board
how to you didn’t think I needed a board of advisors of board of directors
of advisors of board of directors
of advisors of board of directors mentors even um and that lasted about a
mentors even um and that lasted about a
mentors even um and that lasted about a year this time not in debt but but
year this time not in debt but but
year this time not in debt but but decided as isn’t working out and it was
decided as isn’t working out and it was
decided as isn’t working out and it was really the third fourth and then
really the third fourth and then
really the third fourth and then eventually even fifth businesses where I
eventually even fifth businesses where I
eventually even fifth businesses where I just realized okay you know find the
just realized okay you know find the
just realized okay you know find the best talent I can in a given area let’s
best talent I can in a given area let’s
best talent I can in a given area let’s say it’s marketing let’s let me find the
say it’s marketing let’s let me find the
say it’s marketing let’s let me find the best marketer but don’t pretend I have
best marketer but don’t pretend I have
best marketer but don’t pretend I have all the answers and even if I do have
all the answers and even if I do have
all the answers and even if I do have some of the right answers because of my
some of the right answers because of my
some of the right answers because of my experience or insights or whatever
experience or insights or whatever
experience or insights or whatever realize that every time I change
realize that every time I change
realize that every time I change something or step on that territory I’m
something or step on that territory I’m
something or step on that territory I’m disengaging that person it becomes my
disengaging that person it becomes my
disengaging that person it becomes my company not their company my project not
company not their company my project not
company not their company my project not their project and so when you hire great
their project and so when you hire great
their project and so when you hire great people if you then just don’t focus on
people if you then just don’t focus on
people if you then just don’t focus on their domain area that focus on creating
their domain area that focus on creating
their domain area that focus on creating a great culture of engagement they’re
a great culture of engagement they’re
a great culture of engagement they’re going to give you you know all the hours
going to give you you know all the hours
going to give you you know all the hours you would ever want that we they’re
you would ever want that we they’re
you would ever want that we they’re going to give you the best talent
going to give you the best talent
going to give you the best talent they’re going to own their mistakes and
they’re going to own their mistakes and
they’re going to own their mistakes and learn from them and I realized with that
learn from them and I realized with that
learn from them and I realized with that third business that went well I sold it
third business that went well I sold it
third business that went well I sold it after about five years thought ah you
after about five years thought ah you
after about five years thought ah you know I need to really focus more on this
know I need to really focus more on this
know I need to really focus more on this talent in culture piece and the next
talent in culture piece and the next
talent in culture piece and the next business I spent more time on that so
business I spent more time on that so
business I spent more time on that so that company didn’t even better the last
that company didn’t even better the last
that company didn’t even better the last one I did one thing I said okay i’m the
one I did one thing I said okay i’m the
one I did one thing I said okay i’m the founder CEO let me hire great people and
founder CEO let me hire great people and
founder CEO let me hire great people and make sure the culture supports them I
make sure the culture supports them I
make sure the culture supports them I mean I didn’t get involved you know
mean I didn’t get involved you know
mean I didn’t get involved you know directly in sales marketing products I
directly in sales marketing products I
directly in sales marketing products I mean I had the vision I set it up and
mean I had the vision I set it up and
mean I had the vision I set it up and then it was all about assembly two great
then it was all about assembly two great
then it was all about assembly two great team and that that business it was Inc
team and that that business it was Inc
team and that that business it was Inc 500 business one best place to work
500 business one best place to work
500 business one best place to work Awards the less I did myself in the
Awards the less I did myself in the
Awards the less I did myself in the business the better it did so this is a
business the better it did so this is a
business the better it did so this is a long way of saying that I hope that if
long way of saying that I hope that if
long way of saying that I hope that if indeed I would ever jump back in the
indeed I would ever jump back in the
indeed I would ever jump back in the game in a big way I would have that
game in a big way I would have that
game in a big way I would have that wisdom and realize you know I I’m going
wisdom and realize you know I I’m going
wisdom and realize you know I I’m going to be pushing 50 I’ve got kids I’m not
to be pushing 50 I’ve got kids I’m not
to be pushing 50 I’ve got kids I’m not working 80 hours a week I’m not going to
working 80 hours a week I’m not going to
working 80 hours a week I’m not going to go out on every single sales call I’m
go out on every single sales call I’m
go out on every single sales call I’m not going to debug that code myself you
not going to debug that code myself you
not going to debug that code myself you know it’s going to be more about
know it’s going to be more about
know it’s going to be more about hopefully having a clever idea and some
hopefully having a clever idea and some
hopefully having a clever idea and some some mission vision and values but it’s
some mission vision and values but it’s
some mission vision and values but it’s about attracting partners not being so
about attracting partners not being so
about attracting partners not being so selfish attracting a great board of
selfish attracting a great board of
selfish attracting a great board of advisors a great board of directors um
advisors a great board of directors um
advisors a great board of directors um be willing to who raise some money I
be willing to who raise some money I
be willing to who raise some money I always bootstraps I was too selfish to
always bootstraps I was too selfish to
always bootstraps I was too selfish to to raise money you raise money not for
to raise money you raise money not for
to raise money you raise money not for the money you raise money because now
the money you raise money because now
the money you raise money because now they have access to their network and
they have access to their network and
they have access to their network and whether that’s for beta customers for
whether that’s for beta customers for
whether that’s for beta customers for chief
chief
chief officers whatever you share out that
officers whatever you share out that
officers whatever you share out that equity to get that expertise and evident
equity to get that expertise and evident
equity to get that expertise and evident could all be smoke I mean I could be
could all be smoke I mean I could be
could all be smoke I mean I could be wrong but I think I just be a lot
wrong but I think I just be a lot
wrong but I think I just be a lot smarter about doing it and hopefully a
smarter about doing it and hopefully a
smarter about doing it and hopefully a lot saner you have interviewed some
lot saner you have interviewed some
lot saner you have interviewed some amazing people and you probably see what
amazing people and you probably see what
amazing people and you probably see what I see is that you know the higher up the
I see is that you know the higher up the
I see is that you know the higher up the more successful people are it’s almost
more successful people are it’s almost
more successful people are it’s almost like the calmer they are the less
like the calmer they are the less
like the calmer they are the less frantic they are you know I I anyone who
frantic they are you know I I anyone who
frantic they are you know I I anyone who i knows had any kind of you know
i knows had any kind of you know
i knows had any kind of you know material success in life or professional
material success in life or professional
material success in life or professional success in life they’re not running
success in life they’re not running
success in life they’re not running around you know with a to-do list and
around you know with a to-do list and
around you know with a to-do list and ranking A’s and B’s and let me fit this
ranking A’s and B’s and let me fit this
ranking A’s and B’s and let me fit this in that’s not how they run their life so
in that’s not how they run their life so
in that’s not how they run their life so I had that all wrong when I was in my
I had that all wrong when I was in my
I had that all wrong when I was in my 20s and I think I’m going to be a little
20s and I think I’m going to be a little
20s and I think I’m going to be a little bit wiser about that that balance you
bit wiser about that that balance you
bit wiser about that that balance you know moving forward so if you were to go
know moving forward so if you were to go
know moving forward so if you were to go back and I mean even now I mean you’re
back and I mean even now I mean you’re
back and I mean even now I mean you’re talking to the 21 year old kevin cruises
talking to the 21 year old kevin cruises
talking to the 21 year old kevin cruises who are watching this show who you know
who are watching this show who you know
who are watching this show who you know may not have access to capital they
may not have access to capital they
may not have access to capital they haven’t built and sold businesses they
haven’t built and sold businesses they
haven’t built and sold businesses they don’t have a huge Network ah and they
don’t have a huge Network ah and they
don’t have a huge Network ah and they want to avoid the mistakes that you made
want to avoid the mistakes that you made
want to avoid the mistakes that you made of trying to do everything yourself but
of trying to do everything yourself but
of trying to do everything yourself but they’re saying hey I don’t have the
they’re saying hey I don’t have the
they’re saying hey I don’t have the money to go out and bring these guys on
money to go out and bring these guys on
money to go out and bring these guys on and I don’t have a network what what do
and I don’t have a network what what do
and I don’t have a network what what do you tell that 21 year old next Kevin
you tell that 21 year old next Kevin
you tell that 21 year old next Kevin Cruz yeah I think that um here’s I mean
Cruz yeah I think that um here’s I mean
Cruz yeah I think that um here’s I mean the fur the most important message which
the fur the most important message which
the fur the most important message which is great if they’re already in the games
is great if they’re already in the games
is great if they’re already in the games get in the game I mean it’s never been
get in the game I mean it’s never been
get in the game I mean it’s never been easier to be an entrepreneur to scale I
easier to be an entrepreneur to scale I
easier to be an entrepreneur to scale I mean you think about so many of these
mean you think about so many of these
mean you think about so many of these startups that are successful these days
startups that are successful these days
startups that are successful these days with four or five six people that are
with four or five six people that are
with four or five six people that are serving 400 million customers or in the
serving 400 million customers or in the
serving 400 million customers or in the case of an Instagram or whatsapp you
case of an Instagram or whatsapp you
case of an Instagram or whatsapp you know they’ve got 50 employees and
know they’ve got 50 employees and
know they’ve got 50 employees and they’re servicing 500 million people and
they’re servicing 500 million people and
they’re servicing 500 million people and selling for a billion dollars I mean
selling for a billion dollars I mean
selling for a billion dollars I mean it’s never been easier yeah back in my
it’s never been easier yeah back in my
it’s never been easier yeah back in my back in my day you know if I wanted a
back in my day you know if I wanted a
back in my day you know if I wanted a SAS software solution I was racking and
SAS software solution I was racking and
SAS software solution I was racking and stacking servers in the closet and I
stacking servers in the closet and I
stacking servers in the closet and I used to have to do that and it’s all
used to have to do that and it’s all
used to have to do that and it’s all this money you know up front in these
this money you know up front in these
this money you know up front in these servers not knowing if you’re ever going
servers not knowing if you’re ever going
servers not knowing if you’re ever going to really have traffic for them now you
to really have traffic for them now you
to really have traffic for them now you know you read
know you read
know you read for pennies you know from from ATMs on
for pennies you know from from ATMs on
for pennies you know from from ATMs on AWS or or somewhere else with fiber with
AWS or or somewhere else with fiber with
AWS or or somewhere else with fiber with with freelance calm with outsource you
with freelance calm with outsource you
with freelance calm with outsource you know you can get a lot with not a little
know you can get a lot with not a little
know you can get a lot with not a little money but the most important thing is if
money but the most important thing is if
money but the most important thing is if you’ve got a great idea and are
you’ve got a great idea and are
you’ve got a great idea and are passionate about it I mean people are
passionate about it I mean people are
passionate about it I mean people are ignited by your passion or your
ignited by your passion or your
ignited by your passion or your enthusiasm it’s contagious so even if
enthusiasm it’s contagious so even if
enthusiasm it’s contagious so even if you just have that good idea in that
you just have that good idea in that
you just have that good idea in that passion you’ll find people to work with
passion you’ll find people to work with
passion you’ll find people to work with if you want to and you’ll find money if
if you want to and you’ll find money if
if you want to and you’ll find money if you want to um I am astonished I i I’ve
you want to um I am astonished I i I’ve
you want to um I am astonished I i I’ve kind of um I’ve kind of young I’m not as
kind of um I’ve kind of young I’m not as
kind of um I’ve kind of young I’m not as positive about angel investing as I used
positive about angel investing as I used
positive about angel investing as I used to like I don’t as an angel I don’t it I
to like I don’t as an angel I don’t it I
to like I don’t as an angel I don’t it I don’t think it’s all that I thought it
don’t think it’s all that I thought it
don’t think it’s all that I thought it used to be but I’m amazed when I go into
used to be but I’m amazed when I go into
used to be but I’m amazed when I go into these eight angel group meetings for for
these eight angel group meetings for for
these eight angel group meetings for for rich men and women that are in these
rich men and women that are in these
rich men and women that are in these meetings it ain’t hard to get their
meetings it ain’t hard to get their
meetings it ain’t hard to get their money i mean it’s it’s like betting for
money i mean it’s it’s like betting for
money i mean it’s it’s like betting for them there’s not a whole lot of due
them there’s not a whole lot of due
them there’s not a whole lot of due diligence involved you know and these
diligence involved you know and these
diligence involved you know and these days even venture capitalists i mean
days even venture capitalists i mean
days even venture capitalists i mean they will fund a great ID in a napkin if
they will fund a great ID in a napkin if
they will fund a great ID in a napkin if you’re you know with with the right
you’re you know with with the right
you’re you know with with the right people so a 21 year old kevin cruise or
people so a 21 year old kevin cruise or
people so a 21 year old kevin cruise or Evan or anyone that’s out there first of
Evan or anyone that’s out there first of
Evan or anyone that’s out there first of all go for it it’s never been a better
all go for it it’s never been a better
all go for it it’s never been a better time to be an entrepreneur and don’t
time to be an entrepreneur and don’t
time to be an entrepreneur and don’t worry about not having that money i mean
worry about not having that money i mean
worry about not having that money i mean yeah work hard hustle as much as you can
yeah work hard hustle as much as you can
yeah work hard hustle as much as you can but then you know attract go find a head
but then you know attract go find a head
but then you know attract go find a head of sales and give them ten percent of
of sales and give them ten percent of
of sales and give them ten percent of the company and options go find a chief
the company and options go find a chief
the company and options go find a chief technology officer give them ten percent
technology officer give them ten percent
technology officer give them ten percent of the company options go talk to angel
of the company options go talk to angel
of the company options go talk to angel investors and be willing to do a
investors and be willing to do a
investors and be willing to do a convertible note or something yes you’re
convertible note or something yes you’re
convertible note or something yes you’re giving away some of your company but you
giving away some of your company but you
giving away some of your company but you might get some resources in return it’s
might get some resources in return it’s
might get some resources in return it’s easier than ever before you have an
easier than ever before you have an
easier than ever before you have an interesting philosophy that not a lot of
interesting philosophy that not a lot of
interesting philosophy that not a lot of entrepreneurs will take in that you you
entrepreneurs will take in that you you
entrepreneurs will take in that you you really want to share the share the
really want to share the share the
really want to share the share the wealth and give up equity to get money
wealth and give up equity to get money
wealth and give up equity to get money and to get people on board how do you
and to get people on board how do you
and to get people on board how do you how do you prevent uh how do you prevent
how do you prevent uh how do you prevent
how do you prevent uh how do you prevent giving it to the wrong person you know
giving it to the wrong person you know
giving it to the wrong person you know how do you make sure that that CTO
how do you make sure that that CTO
how do you make sure that that CTO you’re giving it to
you’re giving it to
you’re giving it to young giving them ten percent how do I
young giving them ten percent how do I
young giving them ten percent how do I know you know I’m that 21 year old kevin
know you know I’m that 21 year old kevin
know you know I’m that 21 year old kevin cruise how do I know that the guy I’m
cruise how do I know that the guy I’m
cruise how do I know that the guy I’m giving that money to or that percentage
giving that money to or that percentage
giving that money to or that percentage in is is going to be the right person
in is is going to be the right person
in is is going to be the right person help me build this thing long-term that
help me build this thing long-term that
help me build this thing long-term that that’s a powerful question because even
that’s a powerful question because even
that’s a powerful question because even the people who specialize in you know
the people who specialize in you know
the people who specialize in you know how to select great talent they’ll admit
how to select great talent they’ll admit
how to select great talent they’ll admit that their success rate is fifty-fifty I
that their success rate is fifty-fifty I
that their success rate is fifty-fifty I mean there’s it’s really hard to get
mean there’s it’s really hard to get
mean there’s it’s really hard to get great people so I mean ideally you’re
great people so I mean ideally you’re
great people so I mean ideally you’re working with people that you’re bringing
working with people that you’re bringing
working with people that you’re bringing in people as partners who you’ve worked
in people as partners who you’ve worked
in people as partners who you’ve worked with in some capacity mess and they’re
with in some capacity mess and they’re
with in some capacity mess and they’re already a known entity if you can’t do
already a known entity if you can’t do
already a known entity if you can’t do that it’s great if you can bring people
that it’s great if you can bring people
that it’s great if you can bring people in on a trial basis or a project basis
in on a trial basis or a project basis
in on a trial basis or a project basis um if you can’t do that then of course
um if you can’t do that then of course
um if you can’t do that then of course what you do is you set up the contracts
what you do is you set up the contracts
what you do is you set up the contracts so that it’s it’s it’s all earned so
so that it’s it’s it’s all earned so
so that it’s it’s it’s all earned so let’s say you know Evans the CTO for me
let’s say you know Evans the CTO for me
let’s say you know Evans the CTO for me definitely deserves ten percent of the
definitely deserves ten percent of the
definitely deserves ten percent of the company but I’m not going to give it to
company but I’m not going to give it to
company but I’m not going to give it to you on day 1 i’m going to say okay it’s
you on day 1 i’m going to say okay it’s
you on day 1 i’m going to say okay it’s either a third each year for three years
either a third each year for three years
either a third each year for three years so if this doesn’t work out after a year
so if this doesn’t work out after a year
so if this doesn’t work out after a year and we part ways I’ve kind of limited my
and we part ways I’ve kind of limited my
and we part ways I’ve kind of limited my downside or even to take more risk out
downside or even to take more risk out
downside or even to take more risk out of it you make some you make some
of it you make some you make some
of it you make some you make some deliverables you know some mentions and
deliverables you know some mentions and
deliverables you know some mentions and whether that’s around revenue or
whether that’s around revenue or
whether that’s around revenue or installs or contingent on other raises
installs or contingent on other raises
installs or contingent on other raises or whatever that might be you can have
or whatever that might be you can have
or whatever that might be you can have clauses in there that would trigger an
clauses in there that would trigger an
clauses in there that would trigger an accelerated earnings for that talented
accelerated earnings for that talented
accelerated earnings for that talented person or you could claw some of that
person or you could claw some of that
person or you could claw some of that back it those conversations always feel
back it those conversations always feel
back it those conversations always feel hard because you want to just assume
hard because you want to just assume
hard because you want to just assume that of course it’s going to work out
that of course it’s going to work out
that of course it’s going to work out you know it’s kind of like prenuptial
you know it’s kind of like prenuptial
you know it’s kind of like prenuptial agreements in marriages right you know
agreements in marriages right you know
agreements in marriages right you know you don’t really want to tell the person
you don’t really want to tell the person
you don’t really want to tell the person who you love and are gonna of course in
who you love and are gonna of course in
who you love and are gonna of course in the rest of your life with oh but what
the rest of your life with oh but what
the rest of your life with oh but what if it doesn’t work out I mean it’s a
if it doesn’t work out I mean it’s a
if it doesn’t work out I mean it’s a horrible conversation to have more and
horrible conversation to have more and
horrible conversation to have more and more people are having these kinds of
more people are having these kinds of
more people are having these kinds of conversations so I think it’s the same
conversations so I think it’s the same
conversations so I think it’s the same thing is do everything you can to make
thing is do everything you can to make
thing is do everything you can to make sure that especially at a partner level
sure that especially at a partner level
sure that especially at a partner level that you found the right person but then
that you found the right person but then
that you found the right person but then as much as possible make that ownership
as much as possible make that ownership
as much as possible make that ownership contingent on success
contingent on success
contingent on success got it and as an angel investor what are
got it and as an angel investor what are
got it and as an angel investor what are some of the things that you would look
some of the things that you would look
some of the things that you would look for in a pitch that’s coming to you yeah
for in a pitch that’s coming to you yeah
for in a pitch that’s coming to you yeah you know I I’ve seen a lot of them I’ve
you know I I’ve seen a lot of them I’ve
you know I I’ve seen a lot of them I’ve changed a little bit on that I mean what
changed a little bit on that I mean what
changed a little bit on that I mean what always looks great is when when the
always looks great is when when the
always looks great is when when the entrepreneur has has done it before so
entrepreneur has has done it before so
entrepreneur has has done it before so you know it’s someone who had a key
you know it’s someone who had a key
you know it’s someone who had a key position at a certain company so you
position at a certain company so you
position at a certain company so you know they’ve got some experience you
know they’ve got some experience you
know they’ve got some experience you know they’ve got some some some
know they’ve got some some some
know they’ve got some some some connections and things and they’re going
connections and things and they’re going
connections and things and they’re going to do it again on their own in some way
to do it again on their own in some way
to do it again on their own in some way this is sort of a repeat or even if it’s
this is sort of a repeat or even if it’s
this is sort of a repeat or even if it’s a different area but they specially
a different area but they specially
a different area but they specially started and sold a previous business at
started and sold a previous business at
started and sold a previous business at least you know they know how to raise
least you know they know how to raise
least you know they know how to raise money they know how to hire people they
money they know how to hire people they
money they know how to hire people they know how to talk to customers again you
know how to talk to customers again you
know how to talk to customers again you know anything it’s a bettin bet not a
know anything it’s a bettin bet not a
know anything it’s a bettin bet not a jockey that’s once in previous races is
jockey that’s once in previous races is
jockey that’s once in previous races is is the easiest way that’s hard that
is the easiest way that’s hard that
is the easiest way that’s hard that doesn’t happen that often though so when
doesn’t happen that often though so when
doesn’t happen that often though so when I have invested I mean I certainly would
I have invested I mean I certainly would
I have invested I mean I certainly would like to believe in the idea and I end I
like to believe in the idea and I end I
like to believe in the idea and I end I need to hear that passion from the
need to hear that passion from the
need to hear that passion from the person I need to know that I mean
person I need to know that I mean
person I need to know that I mean they’ve got a vision for this future
they’ve got a vision for this future
they’ve got a vision for this future that is is going to happen and lastly
that is is going to happen and lastly
that is is going to happen and lastly though I don’t want to get involved
though I don’t want to get involved
though I don’t want to get involved unless I can add value um I can’t
unless I can add value um I can’t
unless I can add value um I can’t remember who said it originally but they
remember who said it originally but they
remember who said it originally but they say you know great opportunities are
say you know great opportunities are
say you know great opportunities are like buses they just come every hour and
like buses they just come every hour and
like buses they just come every hour and it’s true i mean you can you can go on
it’s true i mean you can you can go on
it’s true i mean you can you can go on to you know angel list or an any angel
to you know angel list or an any angel
to you know angel list or an any angel meeting or whatever there’s hundreds or
meeting or whatever there’s hundreds or
meeting or whatever there’s hundreds or thousands of deals i get i get
thousands of deals i get i get
thousands of deals i get i get unsolicited pitches through linkedin
unsolicited pitches through linkedin
unsolicited pitches through linkedin three four times a day from people great
three four times a day from people great
three four times a day from people great ideas but um you know if it’s a great
ideas but um you know if it’s a great
ideas but um you know if it’s a great idea someone I don’t know and not an
idea someone I don’t know and not an
idea someone I don’t know and not an area I can contribute to yeah another
area I can contribute to yeah another
area I can contribute to yeah another bus is going to come around in an hour
bus is going to come around in an hour
bus is going to come around in an hour I’m not too interested and there’s a lot
I’m not too interested and there’s a lot
I’m not too interested and there’s a lot of ways to lose money in the startup
of ways to lose money in the startup
of ways to lose money in the startup game and as an angel if someone came to
game and as an angel if someone came to
game and as an angel if someone came to me though and said hey Kevin you know we
me though and said hey Kevin you know we
me though and said hey Kevin you know we sought you out as an angel not just
sought you out as an angel not just
sought you out as an angel not just because you can write a check but we
because you can write a check but we
because you can write a check but we know you had this success building and
know you had this success building and
know you had this success building and selling elearning companies especially
selling elearning companies especially
selling elearning companies especially in the life sciences space well we’ve
in the life sciences space well we’ve
in the life sciences space well we’ve got this new I
got this new I
got this new I for a mobile learning platform we’ve
for a mobile learning platform we’ve
for a mobile learning platform we’ve already got this pharmaceutical company
already got this pharmaceutical company
already got this pharmaceutical company on board as a beta and we know with your
on board as a beta and we know with your
on board as a beta and we know with your connections your experience in the space
connections your experience in the space
connections your experience in the space you can add value your smart money not
you can add value your smart money not
you can add value your smart money not dumb money that’s something that’s very
dumb money that’s something that’s very
dumb money that’s something that’s very interesting to me um and then Evan I
interesting to me um and then Evan I
interesting to me um and then Evan I know you would know this but but just to
know you would know this but but just to
know you would know this but but just to also share that this at this point I say
also share that this at this point I say
also share that this at this point I say no to a lot of deals just based on
no to a lot of deals just based on
no to a lot of deals just based on valuation valuations are through the
valuation valuations are through the
valuation valuations are through the roof right now I mean it’s crazy it’s
roof right now I mean it’s crazy it’s
roof right now I mean it’s crazy it’s really crazy so when someone comes to me
really crazy so when someone comes to me
really crazy so when someone comes to me with an idea on a napkin basically and
with an idea on a napkin basically and
with an idea on a napkin basically and and and they do and they say so we’re
and and they do and they say so we’re
and and they do and they say so we’re raising a million dollars and the
raising a million dollars and the
raising a million dollars and the valuation of the company is 10 million
valuation of the company is 10 million
valuation of the company is 10 million dollars so you’re going to get you know
dollars so you’re going to get you know
dollars so you’re going to get you know ten percent if you write the million
ten percent if you write the million
ten percent if you write the million well you start doing that it’s like
well you start doing that it’s like
well you start doing that it’s like first of all if I’m only writing a
first of all if I’m only writing a
first of all if I’m only writing a hundred thousand i’m not getting temps
hundred thousand i’m not getting temps
hundred thousand i’m not getting temps on getting one percent and you see how
on getting one percent and you see how
on getting one percent and you see how much influence you’re really going to
much influence you’re really going to
much influence you’re really going to have in that company is quite small as
have in that company is quite small as
have in that company is quite small as an angel um but but there’s so much risk
an angel um but but there’s so much risk
an angel um but but there’s so much risk even in well-run startups I mean it’s
even in well-run startups I mean it’s
even in well-run startups I mean it’s just it’s really hard and for companies
just it’s really hard and for companies
just it’s really hard and for companies with no revenues at all to be asking for
with no revenues at all to be asking for
with no revenues at all to be asking for 10 million dollar valuation and they do
10 million dollar valuation and they do
10 million dollar valuation and they do all the time I mean that’s good luck and
all the time I mean that’s good luck and
all the time I mean that’s good luck and they probably will find money from other
they probably will find money from other
they probably will find money from other people but ain’t gonna be my money so
people but ain’t gonna be my money so
people but ain’t gonna be my money so how do you value a start-up you know
how do you value a start-up you know
how do you value a start-up you know it’s a lot easier when you have revenue
it’s a lot easier when you have revenue
it’s a lot easier when you have revenue and customers and you you’ve got that
and customers and you you’ve got that
and customers and you you’ve got that first you know those first deals and you
first you know those first deals and you
first you know those first deals and you can you can play and say hey we’re going
can you can play and say hey we’re going
can you can play and say hey we’re going to keep growing like this but somebody
to keep growing like this but somebody
to keep growing like this but somebody comes to you with an idea a napkin and
comes to you with an idea a napkin and
comes to you with an idea a napkin and say hey I think I can make tons of money
say hey I think I can make tons of money
say hey I think I can make tons of money but i haven’t sold anything yet what do
but i haven’t sold anything yet what do
but i haven’t sold anything yet what do you say do you say still try to raise
you say do you say still try to raise
you say do you say still try to raise money to say hold off until you get some
money to say hold off until you get some
money to say hold off until you get some customers how do you evaluate that
customers how do you evaluate that
customers how do you evaluate that business well I mean the this the second
business well I mean the this the second
business well I mean the this the second question about do they hold off or not
question about do they hold off or not
question about do they hold off or not you know I’d say no I mean I think right
you know I’d say no I mean I think right
you know I’d say no I mean I think right now if valuations are high people are
now if valuations are high people are
now if valuations are high people are getting it and so I would actually say
getting it and so I would actually say
getting it and so I would actually say if you at all think you might want to
if you at all think you might want to
if you at all think you might want to raise money go out and raise it now
raise money go out and raise it now
raise money go out and raise it now because you’re going to get a much
because you’re going to get a much
because you’re going to get a much higher valuation just because there’s so
higher valuation just because there’s so
higher valuation just because there’s so much venture capital money angel money
much venture capital money angel money
much venture capital money angel money and all these new
and all these new
and all these new millionaires in Silicon Valley they’re
millionaires in Silicon Valley they’re
millionaires in Silicon Valley they’re all bettin just like you know at a
all bettin just like you know at a
all bettin just like you know at a casino they’re betting on things now’s a
casino they’re betting on things now’s a
casino they’re betting on things now’s a great time to raise money at a high
great time to raise money at a high
great time to raise money at a high valuation but how do you value a company
valuation but how do you value a company
valuation but how do you value a company that’s tricky and you’re right um it’s
that’s tricky and you’re right um it’s
that’s tricky and you’re right um it’s it’s kind of funny once you have a real
it’s kind of funny once you have a real
it’s kind of funny once you have a real company with with revenues and profits
company with with revenues and profits
company with with revenues and profits people want to value you based on a
people want to value you based on a
people want to value you based on a multiple of your profits so you know if
multiple of your profits so you know if
multiple of your profits so you know if you’re a slow growing company or a
you’re a slow growing company or a
you’re a slow growing company or a professional service firm you know might
professional service firm you know might
professional service firm you know might be a five times profit or a seven times
be a five times profit or a seven times
be a five times profit or a seven times profit if you’re a tech company you’re
profit if you’re a tech company you’re
profit if you’re a tech company you’re going to get a lot more than that or
going to get a lot more than that or
going to get a lot more than that or maybe it’s a couple times revenue the
maybe it’s a couple times revenue the
maybe it’s a couple times revenue the challenge is win your brand new but the
challenge is win your brand new but the
challenge is win your brand new but the opportunity is to sell the dream this is
opportunity is to sell the dream this is
opportunity is to sell the dream this is a this is a true story i’ll keep it i’ll
a this is a true story i’ll keep it i’ll
a this is a true story i’ll keep it i’ll keep it short but many many years ago I
keep it short but many many years ago I
keep it short but many many years ago I was working at a company in a
was working at a company in a
was working at a company in a partnership and we were uh we had we had
partnership and we were uh we had we had
partnership and we were uh we had we had raised venture capital and we were going
raised venture capital and we were going
raised venture capital and we were going out and getting pitched and investment
out and getting pitched and investment
out and getting pitched and investment bankers were going to go public and we
bankers were going to go public and we
bankers were going to go public and we are talking about this valuation issue
are talking about this valuation issue
are talking about this valuation issue and so our venture capital partner said
and so our venture capital partner said
and so our venture capital partner said are you need to come up with a brand new
are you need to come up with a brand new
are you need to come up with a brand new you know five year plan detailed PL that
you know five year plan detailed PL that
you know five year plan detailed PL that you’re going to show everyone your path
you’re going to show everyone your path
you’re going to show everyone your path to revenues and ultimately profitability
to revenues and ultimately profitability
to revenues and ultimately profitability so the team went back and worked like
so the team went back and worked like
so the team went back and worked like around the clock for weeks on this thing
around the clock for weeks on this thing
around the clock for weeks on this thing spreadsheets models all this stuff right
spreadsheets models all this stuff right
spreadsheets models all this stuff right up to the wire we fly up the Boston we
up to the wire we fly up the Boston we
up to the wire we fly up the Boston we meet with our venture capital partner
meet with our venture capital partner
meet with our venture capital partner it’s midnight the net the pitch this
it’s midnight the net the pitch this
it’s midnight the net the pitch this pitches start the next morning he looks
pitches start the next morning he looks
pitches start the next morning he looks at the RP & L’s and he said oh you guys
at the RP & L’s and he said oh you guys
at the RP & L’s and he said oh you guys messed up he’s I guess I wasn’t clear
messed up he’s I guess I wasn’t clear
messed up he’s I guess I wasn’t clear there’s a problem here what’s the
there’s a problem here what’s the
there’s a problem here what’s the problem he says you show you’re going to
problem he says you show you’re going to
problem he says you show you’re going to be profitable in year four well yeah we
be profitable in year four well yeah we
be profitable in year four well yeah we thought people would want to see how
thought people would want to see how
thought people would want to see how they’re going to get their money back to
they’re going to get their money back to
they’re going to get their money back to really profitable eases no no as soon as
really profitable eases no no as soon as
really profitable eases no no as soon as they see profit they’re going to bring
they see profit they’re going to bring
they see profit they’re going to bring the multiple down you need to show
the multiple down you need to show
the multiple down you need to show losses through your first five years so
losses through your first five years so
losses through your first five years so you can sell the dream I don’t make that
you can sell the dream I don’t make that
you can sell the dream I don’t make that this is sounds like a Hollywood movie
this is sounds like a Hollywood movie
this is sounds like a Hollywood movie Midnight we said well he says you need
Midnight we said well he says you need
Midnight we said well he says you need you need to lose 50 more million dollars
you need to lose 50 more million dollars
you need to lose 50 more million dollars well what are we going to spend it on
well what are we going to spend it on
well what are we going to spend it on like we
like we
like we already calculated all we’re not going
already calculated all we’re not going
already calculated all we’re not going to spend 15 ounces oh no it’s easy just
to spend 15 ounces oh no it’s easy just
to spend 15 ounces oh no it’s easy just put it in marketing at midnight we
put it in marketing at midnight we
put it in marketing at midnight we increased the marketing budget by 50
increased the marketing budget by 50
increased the marketing budget by 50 million dollars over five years tank it
million dollars over five years tank it
million dollars over five years tank it to the P&L two losses and then went out
to the P&L two losses and then went out
to the P&L two losses and then went out and told this story about how huge we
and told this story about how huge we
and told this story about how huge we were going to be but you can’t value us
were going to be but you can’t value us
were going to be but you can’t value us on profits so you know it’s whatever you
on profits so you know it’s whatever you
on profits so you know it’s whatever you think we’re going to be the opportunity
think we’re going to be the opportunity
think we’re going to be the opportunity is and that’s where the market just
is and that’s where the market just
is and that’s where the market just speaks i mean right now if you’ve got a
speaks i mean right now if you’ve got a
speaks i mean right now if you’ve got a SAS software company you know startup
SAS software company you know startup
SAS software company you know startup idea you’re going to go out and you’re
idea you’re going to go out and you’re
idea you’re going to go out and you’re going to get 10 million dollar valuation
going to get 10 million dollar valuation
going to get 10 million dollar valuation from somebody if you bang on enough
from somebody if you bang on enough
from somebody if you bang on enough doors you know a year ago that was maybe
doors you know a year ago that was maybe
doors you know a year ago that was maybe a five million dollar valuation for
a five million dollar valuation for
a five million dollar valuation for years ago maybe you would have gotten a
years ago maybe you would have gotten a
years ago maybe you would have gotten a two and a half million dollar valuation
two and a half million dollar valuation
two and a half million dollar valuation same idea same same startup team it’s
same idea same same startup team it’s
same idea same same startup team it’s just the supply and demand of who wants
just the supply and demand of who wants
just the supply and demand of who wants in on that deal so from our standpoint
in on that deal so from our standpoint
in on that deal so from our standpoint ask for everything you can but
ask for everything you can but
ask for everything you can but unfortunately there’s no real good you
unfortunately there’s no real good you
unfortunately there’s no real good you know logic or math how do you value a
know logic or math how do you value a
know logic or math how do you value a start-up that’s got no customers yet no
start-up that’s got no customers yet no
start-up that’s got no customers yet no revenue yet to speak of it’s what people
revenue yet to speak of it’s what people
revenue yet to speak of it’s what people are willing to pay whatever they’re
are willing to pay whatever they’re
are willing to pay whatever they’re willing to pay my friend Kevin thank you
willing to pay my friend Kevin thank you
willing to pay my friend Kevin thank you so much for spending some time with us
so much for spending some time with us
so much for spending some time with us today for people who want to learn more
today for people who want to learn more
today for people who want to learn more about you and read your books and find
about you and read your books and find
about you and read your books and find out what you’re doing next where can
out what you’re doing next where can
out what you’re doing next where can they go I appreciate that I’m just
they go I appreciate that I’m just
they go I appreciate that I’m just website is Kevin Cruz com that’s Kevin
website is Kevin Cruz com that’s Kevin
website is Kevin Cruz com that’s Kevin then KR u SE kaam and i also have a
then KR u SE kaam and i also have a
then KR u SE kaam and i also have a entrepreneurs journey manifesto that’s
entrepreneurs journey manifesto that’s
entrepreneurs journey manifesto that’s out there just Google entrepreneurs jury
out there just Google entrepreneurs jury
out there just Google entrepreneurs jury manifesto and they’ll find it awesome
manifesto and they’ll find it awesome
manifesto and they’ll find it awesome thank you so much Kevin I really
thank you so much Kevin I really
thank you so much Kevin I really appreciate your time and and the passion
appreciate your time and and the passion
appreciate your time and and the passion and the love that you have for
and the love that you have for
and the love that you have for entrepreneurs hey thanks for what you’re
entrepreneurs hey thanks for what you’re
entrepreneurs hey thanks for what you’re doing for Astra nervous thanks Evan
doing for Astra nervous thanks Evan
doing for Astra nervous thanks Evan cheers
”
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