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Money and Morals: The Art of Philosophic Investing | Henrik Syse | TEDxTrondheim


why am I here what is the purpose of it

why am I here what is the purpose of it all me being a philosopher you may now

all me being a philosopher you may now

all me being a philosopher you may now expect 50

expect 50

expect 50 it’s about metaphysics I’m even a

it’s about metaphysics I’m even a

it’s about metaphysics I’m even a sunday-school teacher on the side so you

sunday-school teacher on the side so you

sunday-school teacher on the side so you may expect me to delve into the meaning

may expect me to delve into the meaning

may expect me to delve into the meaning of life for the existence of God or

of life for the existence of God or

of life for the existence of God or what’s the meaning of life and death

what’s the meaning of life and death

what’s the meaning of life and death well I won’t I will be staying with

well I won’t I will be staying with

well I won’t I will be staying with something rather more every day but I

something rather more every day but I

something rather more every day but I will try to convey nonetheless quite an

will try to convey nonetheless quite an

will try to convey nonetheless quite an important idea to you and I will try to

important idea to you and I will try to

important idea to you and I will try to apply it to truly important global

apply it to truly important global

apply it to truly important global practice the practice of financial

practice the practice of financial

practice the practice of financial investments the idea I want to drive

investments the idea I want to drive

investments the idea I want to drive home to you is a rather simple one it

home to you is a rather simple one it

home to you is a rather simple one it may seem like common sense but I live by

may seem like common sense but I live by

may seem like common sense but I live by the motto that common sense is not so

the motto that common sense is not so

the motto that common sense is not so common so it can be good to think about

common so it can be good to think about

common so it can be good to think about that as well

that as well

that as well the idea is that we human beings most

the idea is that we human beings most

the idea is that we human beings most often act from several motivations at

often act from several motivations at

often act from several motivations at the same time we have several

the same time we have several

the same time we have several motivations or reasons for what we do

motivations or reasons for what we do

motivations or reasons for what we do and often one is not enough so it’s not

and often one is not enough so it’s not

and often one is not enough so it’s not one that is sufficient we need more

one that is sufficient we need more

one that is sufficient we need more together in order to do what we do so

together in order to do what we do so

together in order to do what we do so let me go back to my initial question

let me go back to my initial question

let me go back to my initial question why am I here and this time the quite

why am I here and this time the quite

why am I here and this time the quite concrete one of asking is there a two

concrete one of asking is there a two

concrete one of asking is there a two ball here I like that I like that on the

ball here I like that I like that on the

ball here I like that I like that on the side I like some musical accompaniment

side I like some musical accompaniment

side I like some musical accompaniment Rondon I might war to them as they say

Rondon I might war to them as they say

Rondon I might war to them as they say up here I’m here to give a TEDx talk is

up here I’m here to give a TEDx talk is

up here I’m here to give a TEDx talk is it because of the multi-million dollar

it because of the multi-million dollar

it because of the multi-million dollar fee that I come here not just joking we

fee that I come here not just joking we

fee that I come here not just joking we don’t get a fee to do you uh the TEDx

don’t get a fee to do you uh the TEDx

don’t get a fee to do you uh the TEDx talks and we’re very very happy and

talks and we’re very very happy and

talks and we’re very very happy and grateful to be here nonetheless I

grateful to be here nonetheless I

grateful to be here nonetheless I actually did give a talk recently which

actually did give a talk recently which

actually did give a talk recently which was paid and I said as a joke that I

was paid and I said as a joke that I

was paid and I said as a joke that I came here for the million dollar fee no

came here for the million dollar fee no

came here for the million dollar fee no one laughed and I thought shucks I

one laughed and I thought shucks I

one laughed and I thought shucks I should have asked for more sometimes of

should have asked for more sometimes of

should have asked for more sometimes of course I do give a lecture that pays a

course I do give a lecture that pays a

course I do give a lecture that pays a fee but I can assure you that it’s very

fee but I can assure you that it’s very

fee but I can assure you that it’s very rare that I come only for that it could

rare that I come only for that it could

rare that I come only for that it could be an interesting audience like here

be an interesting audience like here

be an interesting audience like here something I want to convey it could be

something I want to convey it could be

something I want to convey it could be the prestige sometimes or it can simply

the prestige sometimes or it can simply

the prestige sometimes or it can simply be that I can avoid a boring meeting at

be that I can avoid a boring meeting at

be that I can avoid a boring meeting at work actually this weekend here in

work actually this weekend here in

work actually this weekend here in trondheim is for me quite a good example

trondheim is for me quite a good example

trondheim is for me quite a good example because while I’m here obviously to give

because while I’m here obviously to give

because while I’m here obviously to give a TEDx talk we also have a daughter who

a TEDx talk we also have a daughter who

a TEDx talk we also have a daughter who lives here in Trondheim because she

lives here in Trondheim because she

lives here in Trondheim because she studies here so I’m here to visit her

studies here so I’m here to visit her

studies here so I’m here to visit her I must admit even though I’m very very

I must admit even though I’m very very

I must admit even though I’m very very grateful for the TEDx invitation

grateful for the TEDx invitation

grateful for the TEDx invitation probably would not have accepted it if

probably would not have accepted it if

probably would not have accepted it if it weren’t for the fact that I could

it weren’t for the fact that I could

it weren’t for the fact that I could also visit our daughter because it’s

also visit our daughter because it’s

also visit our daughter because it’s busy days at home there were lots of

busy days at home there were lots of

busy days at home there were lots of other things to do I had to admit to her

other things to do I had to admit to her

other things to do I had to admit to her as well but it probably wouldn’t have

as well but it probably wouldn’t have

as well but it probably wouldn’t have come just this weekend if it weren’t for

come just this weekend if it weren’t for

come just this weekend if it weren’t for the TEDx talk so the two come together

the TEDx talk so the two come together

the TEDx talk so the two come together perfectly don’t think okay enough about

perfectly don’t think okay enough about

perfectly don’t think okay enough about me my family the TEDx talks let me try

me my family the TEDx talks let me try

me my family the TEDx talks let me try to apply this line of thinking to the

to apply this line of thinking to the

to apply this line of thinking to the question of financial investments I had

question of financial investments I had

question of financial investments I had the great honor a bit more than ten

the great honor a bit more than ten

the great honor a bit more than ten years ago to work as a wireless head of

years ago to work as a wireless head of

years ago to work as a wireless head of corporate governance for what is now the

corporate governance for what is now the

corporate governance for what is now the largest sovereign wealth fund in the

largest sovereign wealth fund in the

largest sovereign wealth fund in the world more famously known as a Norwegian

world more famously known as a Norwegian

world more famously known as a Norwegian oil fund my task was to find out how

oil fund my task was to find out how

oil fund my task was to find out how this fund as an investor should be

this fund as an investor should be

this fund as an investor should be engaged some of you may own shares so

engaged some of you may own shares so

engaged some of you may own shares so you know what it means to be an engaged

you know what it means to be an engaged

you know what it means to be an engaged owner it means that you can all vote at

owner it means that you can all vote at

owner it means that you can all vote at the annual general meetings right you

the annual general meetings right you

the annual general meetings right you can propose shareholder resolutions you

can propose shareholder resolutions you

can propose shareholder resolutions you can write letters to the company you can

can write letters to the company you can

can write letters to the company you can team up with other investors you could

team up with other investors you could

team up with other investors you could influence the companies that you own so

influence the companies that you own so

influence the companies that you own so in what way should the Norwegian fund

in what way should the Norwegian fund

in what way should the Norwegian fund engage well our owner the finance

engage well our owner the finance

engage well our owner the finance ministry on behalf of the Norwegian

ministry on behalf of the Norwegian

ministry on behalf of the Norwegian people said that we are to be a

people said that we are to be a

people said that we are to be a responsible investor therefore we are in

responsible investor therefore we are in

responsible investor therefore we are in our engagement to take seriously what is

our engagement to take seriously what is

our engagement to take seriously what is known in the world of finance as the ESG

known in the world of finance as the ESG

known in the world of finance as the ESG that world is full of three-letter

that world is full of three-letter

that world is full of three-letter abbreviation and this one stands for

abbreviation and this one stands for

abbreviation and this one stands for environmental social and governance

environmental social and governance

environmental social and governance issues we as an investor should take

issues we as an investor should take

issues we as an investor should take into consideration how we impact our

into consideration how we impact our

into consideration how we impact our world we should be responsible and we

world we should be responsible and we

world we should be responsible and we should be ethical now comes the

should be ethical now comes the

should be ethical now comes the important point and the interesting one

important point and the interesting one

important point and the interesting one namely that when you look at the

namely that when you look at the

namely that when you look at the rational now for this the stated

rational now for this the stated

rational now for this the stated motivation it’s not that in terms of

motivation it’s not that in terms of

motivation it’s not that in terms of ethics or a better world but in terms of

ethics or a better world but in terms of

ethics or a better world but in terms of financial investments making a profit

financial investments making a profit

financial investments making a profit the papers say that we are to be a

the papers say that we are to be a

the papers say that we are to be a responsible investor because that

responsible investor because that

responsible investor because that secures financial returns in the long

secures financial returns in the long

secures financial returns in the long term so in short it’s described in terms

term so in short it’s described in terms

term so in short it’s described in terms of money and not ethics when it comes to

of money and not ethics when it comes to

of money and not ethics when it comes to the rationale so which is it do we do it

the rationale so which is it do we do it

the rationale so which is it do we do it in order to be good or do we do it in

in order to be good or do we do it in

in order to be good or do we do it in order to earn

order to earn

order to earn well in an ideal world we could answer

well in an ideal world we could answer

well in an ideal world we could answer the two are the same if you act well you

the two are the same if you act well you

the two are the same if you act well you will also earn more money and if you

will also earn more money and if you

will also earn more money and if you think about the right ways to earn money

think about the right ways to earn money

think about the right ways to earn money that will probably be what is also

that will probably be what is also

that will probably be what is also ethically right and I wish it were that

ethically right and I wish it were that

ethically right and I wish it were that simple but it’s not always is it because

simple but it’s not always is it because

simple but it’s not always is it because sometimes we disagree on what is right

sometimes we disagree on what is right

sometimes we disagree on what is right and what is ethical and not least

and what is ethical and not least

and what is ethical and not least sometimes we can earn a lot of money

sometimes we can earn a lot of money

sometimes we can earn a lot of money from actually doing what many people

from actually doing what many people

from actually doing what many people would consider the wrong thing in

would consider the wrong thing in

would consider the wrong thing in addition to that I would like to also

addition to that I would like to also

addition to that I would like to also stress that when you are a financial

stress that when you are a financial

stress that when you are a financial investor you actually have a tough job

investor you actually have a tough job

investor you actually have a tough job there are lots of things to look for and

there are lots of things to look for and

there are lots of things to look for and if at the same time you are supposed to

if at the same time you are supposed to

if at the same time you are supposed to be the Red Cross or Save the Children or

be the Red Cross or Save the Children or

be the Red Cross or Save the Children or do good you may put your eyes off the

do good you may put your eyes off the

do good you may put your eyes off the targets and forget the actual job you

targets and forget the actual job you

targets and forget the actual job you are going to do so what do we do well

are going to do so what do we do well

are going to do so what do we do well let me put before you the following

let me put before you the following

let me put before you the following question if you have a responsible

question if you have a responsible

question if you have a responsible investor which says that we take

investor which says that we take

investor which says that we take environmental hazards seriously we want

environmental hazards seriously we want

environmental hazards seriously we want to avoid the worst forms of child labor

to avoid the worst forms of child labor

to avoid the worst forms of child labor we want to invest in companies that are

we want to invest in companies that are

we want to invest in companies that are good and you ask them so why do you do

good and you ask them so why do you do

good and you ask them so why do you do it my thesis is that you would get a

it my thesis is that you would get a

it my thesis is that you would get a number of answers the first one could be

number of answers the first one could be

number of answers the first one could be that we want to live up to the wishes

that we want to live up to the wishes

that we want to live up to the wishes and values of our end owners we want to

and values of our end owners we want to

and values of our end owners we want to make money we want to stay within the

make money we want to stay within the

make money we want to stay within the law we want to maintain a good

law we want to maintain a good

law we want to maintain a good reputation and not end up on the first

reputation and not end up on the first

reputation and not end up on the first page of the wrong papers we want to

page of the wrong papers we want to

page of the wrong papers we want to avoid unnecessary financial risk we want

avoid unnecessary financial risk we want

avoid unnecessary financial risk we want to find objects for investment companies

to find objects for investment companies

to find objects for investment companies that are really solid and good and we

that are really solid and good and we

that are really solid and good and we can believe in them it may be quite a

can believe in them it may be quite a

can believe in them it may be quite a few would say I want to have a good

few would say I want to have a good

few would say I want to have a good conscience in what I do I want to go to

conscience in what I do I want to go to

conscience in what I do I want to go to bed and be able to sleep I want to make

bed and be able to sleep I want to make

bed and be able to sleep I want to make sure that I don’t destroy Mother Earth

sure that I don’t destroy Mother Earth

sure that I don’t destroy Mother Earth so which is it

so which is it

so which is it why do you really do it and as you can

why do you really do it and as you can

why do you really do it and as you can understand from our argument my

understand from our argument my

understand from our argument my relatively simple yet complex thesis is

relatively simple yet complex thesis is

relatively simple yet complex thesis is that we need to act from several

that we need to act from several

that we need to act from several motivations at the same time and they

motivations at the same time and they

motivations at the same time and they need to support each other why do I

need to support each other why do I

need to support each other why do I think this is so important well I would

think this is so important well I would

think this is so important well I would put it in this way this is important

put it in this way this is important

put it in this way this is important because investors can make a real

because investors can make a real

because investors can make a real difference investors

difference investors

difference investors engage whether they be from Norway or

engage whether they be from Norway or

engage whether they be from Norway or China or Abu Dhabi or wherever can

China or Abu Dhabi or wherever can

China or Abu Dhabi or wherever can actually make a difference if they use

actually make a difference if they use

actually make a difference if they use their influence on questions like labor

their influence on questions like labor

their influence on questions like labor rights children’s rights the climate

rights children’s rights the climate

rights children’s rights the climate water quality on all of these questions

water quality on all of these questions

water quality on all of these questions you can actually pressure companies into

you can actually pressure companies into

you can actually pressure companies into changing their attack and doing the

changing their attack and doing the

changing their attack and doing the things that you believe are right to do

things that you believe are right to do

things that you believe are right to do when I came to this job back in 2005 I

when I came to this job back in 2005 I

when I came to this job back in 2005 I stayed there for about three years I was

stayed there for about three years I was

stayed there for about three years I was supposed to be there one year but it was

supposed to be there one year but it was

supposed to be there one year but it was so interesting that I stayed on longer

so interesting that I stayed on longer

so interesting that I stayed on longer before I went back to Plato I actually

before I went back to Plato I actually

before I went back to Plato I actually landed a front page in Wall Street

landed a front page in Wall Street

landed a front page in Wall Street Journal it’s the first last time in my

Journal it’s the first last time in my

Journal it’s the first last time in my life I can assure you and it was in the

life I can assure you and it was in the

life I can assure you and it was in the joke column Norwegian fund hires

joke column Norwegian fund hires

joke column Norwegian fund hires philosopher ha ha and they put it in the

philosopher ha ha and they put it in the

philosopher ha ha and they put it in the following way here’s a philosopher with

following way here’s a philosopher with

following way here’s a philosopher with a problem how to manage one of the

a problem how to manage one of the

a problem how to manage one of the world’s largest investment funds

world’s largest investment funds

world’s largest investment funds ethically and I admit it’s a challenge

ethically and I admit it’s a challenge

ethically and I admit it’s a challenge it’s even often attention but I think

it’s even often attention but I think

it’s even often attention but I think one of the most dangerous things we can

one of the most dangerous things we can

one of the most dangerous things we can do in life is not to admit the tensions

do in life is not to admit the tensions

do in life is not to admit the tensions that are there I’ll add at this point

that are there I’ll add at this point

that are there I’ll add at this point the obvious disclaimer that I’m not

the obvious disclaimer that I’m not

the obvious disclaimer that I’m not speaking on behalf of the fund I don’t

speaking on behalf of the fund I don’t

speaking on behalf of the fund I don’t represent the fund what I’m saying is

represent the fund what I’m saying is

represent the fund what I’m saying is not the official fund policy but I think

not the official fund policy but I think

not the official fund policy but I think it’s a pretty good interpretation what

it’s a pretty good interpretation what

it’s a pretty good interpretation what such a fund is doing and what it should

such a fund is doing and what it should

such a fund is doing and what it should be doing because I think this is also

be doing because I think this is also

be doing because I think this is also about the future of our world and the

about the future of our world and the

about the future of our world and the future what we can broadly call the

future what we can broadly call the

future what we can broadly call the capitalist system if that is a system

capitalist system if that is a system

capitalist system if that is a system that only thinks about what generates

that only thinks about what generates

that only thinks about what generates profit it becomes immensely

profit it becomes immensely

profit it becomes immensely narrow-minded I think we need a wider

narrow-minded I think we need a wider

narrow-minded I think we need a wider ideal what it means to be an investor or

ideal what it means to be an investor or

ideal what it means to be an investor or a business man or woman the also based

a business man or woman the also based

a business man or woman the also based business for Peace Foundation has coined

business for Peace Foundation has coined

business for Peace Foundation has coined the term to be business worthy and I

the term to be business worthy and I

the term to be business worthy and I think that’s a quite good one what do we

think that’s a quite good one what do we

think that’s a quite good one what do we believe it takes to be a business worthy

believe it takes to be a business worthy

believe it takes to be a business worthy investor or company we have to think

investor or company we have to think

investor or company we have to think plurally we have to go beyond the

plurally we have to go beyond the

plurally we have to go beyond the one-track mind or the one core

one-track mind or the one core

one-track mind or the one core motivation and I’ll end there by trying

motivation and I’ll end there by trying

motivation and I’ll end there by trying to broaden it out to all of us because I

to broaden it out to all of us because I

to broaden it out to all of us because I think this doesn’t just apply to

think this doesn’t just apply to

think this doesn’t just apply to business or investment I think it

business or investment I think it

business or investment I think it applies to life

applies to life

applies to life I think a happy life is one where we

I think a happy life is one where we

I think a happy life is one where we feel that we can have several reasons

feel that we can have several reasons

feel that we can have several reasons and motivations for what we do ideally

and motivations for what we do ideally

and motivations for what we do ideally it’s a life we’re serving the other and

it’s a life we’re serving the other and

it’s a life we’re serving the other and being sure that we actually care about

being sure that we actually care about

being sure that we actually care about our environment and our fellow human

our environment and our fellow human

our environment and our fellow human beings is also a life where we feel that

beings is also a life where we feel that

beings is also a life where we feel that we lead the sort of life we want to lead

we lead the sort of life we want to lead

we lead the sort of life we want to lead that is good for you and good for me

that is good for you and good for me

that is good for you and good for me ideally I would say that such a life is

ideally I would say that such a life is

ideally I would say that such a life is one that generates gratitude that we are

one that generates gratitude that we are

one that generates gratitude that we are happy about each other that we do things

happy about each other that we do things

happy about each other that we do things for each other I’m reminded of the

for each other I’m reminded of the

for each other I’m reminded of the christian mystic meister eckhart who

christian mystic meister eckhart who

christian mystic meister eckhart who used to say that if the only prayer you

used to say that if the only prayer you

used to say that if the only prayer you ever say in life is thank you that’s

ever say in life is thank you that’s

ever say in life is thank you that’s enough and so say I thank you

”

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