I talked to you today about walking between the lines and the nature of
between the lines and the nature of
between the lines and the nature of documentary photography and I think
documentary photography and I think
documentary photography and I think they’re parallel ideas and I’ve been
they’re parallel ideas and I’ve been
they’re parallel ideas and I’ve been walking between those lines for a long
walking between those lines for a long
walking between those lines for a long time and I’d like to talk to you about
time and I’d like to talk to you about
time and I’d like to talk to you about myself a little bit how I got started in
myself a little bit how I got started in
myself a little bit how I got started in photography and wandered into
photography and wandered into
photography and wandered into documentary photography somehow I this
documentary photography somehow I this
documentary photography somehow I this first slide here which is already up
first slide here which is already up
first slide here which is already up here is where I started documentary
here is where I started documentary
here is where I started documentary photography but two months before that I
photography but two months before that I
photography but two months before that I was at the University of Oklahoma and I
was at the University of Oklahoma and I
was at the University of Oklahoma and I didn’t go there to be a photographer I
didn’t go there to be a photographer I
didn’t go there to be a photographer I went there to be a journalist and I was
went there to be a journalist and I was
went there to be a journalist and I was taking creative writing classes and I
taking creative writing classes and I
taking creative writing classes and I couldn’t believe that was really
couldn’t believe that was really
couldn’t believe that was really compelling to me and I started writing
compelling to me and I started writing
compelling to me and I started writing query letters which was part of the
query letters which was part of the
query letters which was part of the class requirement and I wrote all the
class requirement and I wrote all the
class requirement and I wrote all the major magazines and I was getting very
major magazines and I was getting very
major magazines and I was getting very nice rejections it was awesome but they
nice rejections it was awesome but they
nice rejections it was awesome but they were nice and I went to my professor I
were nice and I went to my professor I
were nice and I went to my professor I was totally encouraged like they didn’t
was totally encouraged like they didn’t
was totally encouraged like they didn’t just say no and my professor I asked
just say no and my professor I asked
just say no and my professor I asked message
message
message professor Swain you know looks like I’m
professor Swain you know looks like I’m
professor Swain you know looks like I’m happening so what should I do next
happening so what should I do next
happening so what should I do next and he said looked me right in the eye
and he said looked me right in the eye
and he said looked me right in the eye and he said I think you should quit the
and he said I think you should quit the
and he said I think you should quit the university I think you should quit the
university I think you should quit the
university I think you should quit the university and go somewhere that
university and go somewhere that
university and go somewhere that something can happen and maybe start
something can happen and maybe start
something can happen and maybe start living a life that you might have
living a life that you might have
living a life that you might have something to write about
something to write about
something to write about and find your mission in life oh wow
and find your mission in life oh wow
and find your mission in life oh wow and I actually you always listen to your
and I actually you always listen to your
and I actually you always listen to your professor right I did it I quit college
professor right I did it I quit college
professor right I did it I quit college I wandered back to Chicago and you know
I wandered back to Chicago and you know
I wandered back to Chicago and you know a funny thing is I I had a kind of job I
a funny thing is I I had a kind of job I
a funny thing is I I had a kind of job I got down to my last pennies right
got down to my last pennies right
got down to my last pennies right post-graduation
post-graduation
post-graduation and you know pretty soon I found myself
and you know pretty soon I found myself
and you know pretty soon I found myself you know I’m you know I’m not writing I
you know I’m you know I’m not writing I
you know I’m you know I’m not writing I don’t have a life yet in two months how
don’t have a life yet in two months how
don’t have a life yet in two months how could that have happened so I found
could that have happened so I found
could that have happened so I found myself though accidentally living in a
myself though accidentally living in a
myself though accidentally living in a neighborhood where that last great
neighborhood where that last great
neighborhood where that last great migration wave of Blues players were
migration wave of Blues players were
migration wave of Blues players were ending up in Chicago that came up the
ending up in Chicago that came up the
ending up in Chicago that came up the Mississippi River the Mississippi Delta
Mississippi River the Mississippi Delta
Mississippi River the Mississippi Delta players Howlin wolf Little Walter Muddy
players Howlin wolf Little Walter Muddy
players Howlin wolf Little Walter Muddy Waters the great ones I really wish I
Waters the great ones I really wish I
Waters the great ones I really wish I could show you those pictures but I was
could show you those pictures but I was
could show you those pictures but I was such a bad new photographer I don’t have
such a bad new photographer I don’t have
such a bad new photographer I don’t have those pictures they weren’t that good I
those pictures they weren’t that good I
those pictures they weren’t that good I was shooting in the bars till 4:00 in
was shooting in the bars till 4:00 in
was shooting in the bars till 4:00 in the morning
the morning
the morning but this is what I would do after the
but this is what I would do after the
but this is what I would do after the bars on my way home by the way the bars
bars on my way home by the way the bars
bars on my way home by the way the bars in Chicago closed at 4:00 and my job
in Chicago closed at 4:00 and my job
in Chicago closed at 4:00 and my job started at 8:00 so these were kind of
started at 8:00 so these were kind of
started at 8:00 so these were kind of tight sleeping years but okay so what I
tight sleeping years but okay so what I
tight sleeping years but okay so what I did have because there was more light
did have because there was more light
did have because there was more light out on the streets was the photographs
out on the streets was the photographs
out on the streets was the photographs of all the Blues guys hanging out after
of all the Blues guys hanging out after
of all the Blues guys hanging out after the bars and that wasn’t quite you know
the bars and that wasn’t quite you know
the bars and that wasn’t quite you know a voice yet but it was I did learn the
a voice yet but it was I did learn the
a voice yet but it was I did learn the first principle a turning point so to
first principle a turning point so to
first principle a turning point so to speak photograph was close to you and
speak photograph was close to you and
speak photograph was close to you and what’s your most passionate about and I
what’s your most passionate about and I
what’s your most passionate about and I started hanging with these guys so much
started hanging with these guys so much
started hanging with these guys so much I started thinking like I’m part of the
I started thinking like I’m part of the
I started thinking like I’m part of the blues movement in Chicago right now I’m
blues movement in Chicago right now I’m
blues movement in Chicago right now I’m not I’m just a kid with a camera but I
not I’m just a kid with a camera but I
not I’m just a kid with a camera but I think that’s really important because
think that’s really important because
think that’s really important because right off the bat eventually you’ve shot
right off the bat eventually you’ve shot
right off the bat eventually you’ve shot what you’ve shot and you’re not part of
what you’ve shot and you’re not part of
what you’ve shot and you’re not part of the community you’re photographing in
the community you’re photographing in
the community you’re photographing in your walking between the lines of that
your walking between the lines of that
your walking between the lines of that community and who you want to
community and who you want to
community and who you want to communicate you so I’m beginning to be a
communicate you so I’m beginning to be a
communicate you so I’m beginning to be a photographer untrained as I am and I’m
photographer untrained as I am and I’m
photographer untrained as I am and I’m starting an idea it’s a it’s about the
starting an idea it’s a it’s about the
starting an idea it’s a it’s about the people in front of the camera not really
people in front of the camera not really
people in front of the camera not really about me I don’t know how to do this
about me I don’t know how to do this
about me I don’t know how to do this exactly but I buy the way I’m not
exactly but I buy the way I’m not
exactly but I buy the way I’m not writing anymore because I still don’t
writing anymore because I still don’t
writing anymore because I still don’t have a life after four months I’m just a
have a life after four months I’m just a
have a life after four months I’m just a beginning guy so I did start to think I
beginning guy so I did start to think I
beginning guy so I did start to think I was maybe I didn’t go to journalism
was maybe I didn’t go to journalism
was maybe I didn’t go to journalism school maybe I should start to do
school maybe I should start to do
school maybe I should start to do something with the news and those were
something with the news and those were
something with the news and those were the years of heavy protests this was at
the years of heavy protests this was at
the years of heavy protests this was at the end of the Martin Luther King the
the end of the Martin Luther King the
the end of the Martin Luther King the spring before Martin Luther King had
spring before Martin Luther King had
spring before Martin Luther King had been murdered in Memphis he was living
been murdered in Memphis he was living
been murdered in Memphis he was living in Chicago and his organization went on
in Chicago and his organization went on
in Chicago and his organization went on and all of a sudden there’s all this
and all of a sudden there’s all this
and all of a sudden there’s all this turmoil and police riots and stuff going
turmoil and police riots and stuff going
turmoil and police riots and stuff going on it so I wandered round from protest
on it so I wandered round from protest
on it so I wandered round from protest to protest I still don’t know what I’m
to protest I still don’t know what I’m
to protest I still don’t know what I’m doing by the way those times sound
doing by the way those times sound
doing by the way those times sound familiar all of a sudden right and I I
familiar all of a sudden right and I I
familiar all of a sudden right and I I knew this man his name is Marvin he was
knew this man his name is Marvin he was
knew this man his name is Marvin he was a pivot Pima Indian from Arizona and he
a pivot Pima Indian from Arizona and he
a pivot Pima Indian from Arizona and he gave me a call and he said we’re gonna
gave me a call and he said we’re gonna
gave me a call and he said we’re gonna take over the Bureau of Indian Affairs
take over the Bureau of Indian Affairs
take over the Bureau of Indian Affairs office downtown this also sounds
office downtown this also sounds
office downtown this also sounds familiar a little bit and we would you
familiar a little bit and we would you
familiar a little bit and we would you come down and I said well you know okay
come down and I said well you know okay
come down and I said well you know okay so I get on the train and I go down and
so I get on the train and I go down and
so I get on the train and I go down and it’s eight o’clock in the morning and
it’s eight o’clock in the morning and
it’s eight o’clock in the morning and I’m looking there’s police with big
I’m looking there’s police with big
I’m looking there’s police with big clubs and guns and you know big lines in
clubs and guns and you know big lines in
clubs and guns and you know big lines in front of the building and I went out
front of the building and I went out
front of the building and I went out I went across that line it’s kind of
I went across that line it’s kind of
I went across that line it’s kind of hesitating and Marvin came up to me and
hesitating and Marvin came up to me and
hesitating and Marvin came up to me and he said another turning point said we
he said another turning point said we
he said another turning point said we really need you to come with us because
really need you to come with us because
really need you to come with us because if you don’t come in with us this never
if you don’t come in with us this never
if you don’t come in with us this never happened and I went wow there is kind of
happened and I went wow there is kind of
happened and I went wow there is kind of a definition of what documentary
a definition of what documentary
a definition of what documentary photography is it does things don’t
photography is it does things don’t
photography is it does things don’t exist unless a community can have a
exist unless a community can have a
exist unless a community can have a voice and I started to find myself his
voice and I started to find myself his
voice and I started to find myself his last thing you said to me was the key it
last thing you said to me was the key it
last thing you said to me was the key it was the hook and we need your help you
was the hook and we need your help you
was the hook and we need your help you know wow I can do something when
know wow I can do something when
know wow I can do something when photography to help people this was
photography to help people this was
photography to help people this was really compelling to me so we went up
really compelling to me so we went up
really compelling to me so we went up there was a very dirty three days I have
there was a very dirty three days I have
there was a very dirty three days I have to tell you there was one washroom in
to tell you there was one washroom in
to tell you there was one washroom in that entire office and I took it over
that entire office and I took it over
that entire office and I took it over for three days and you know there we
for three days and you know there we
for three days and you know there we were but I was off and running I began
were but I was off and running I began
were but I was off and running I began to understand that photography could be
to understand that photography could be
to understand that photography could be a bridge between audiences between you
a bridge between audiences between you
a bridge between audiences between you and him to get their voice out I also
and him to get their voice out I also
and him to get their voice out I also found that to have an effective voice
found that to have an effective voice
found that to have an effective voice you couldn’t bear a proselytizer you
you couldn’t bear a proselytizer you
you couldn’t bear a proselytizer you just have to show what’s there and
just have to show what’s there and
just have to show what’s there and that’s what separates documentary
that’s what separates documentary
that’s what separates documentary photography from journalism journalism
photography from journalism journalism
photography from journalism journalism is about what’s happening these days
is about what’s happening these days
is about what’s happening these days it’s kind of opinion and what’s
it’s kind of opinion and what’s
it’s kind of opinion and what’s happening but good documentary
happening but good documentary
happening but good documentary photography is just what’s there done
photography is just what’s there done
photography is just what’s there done well it’s not so much about the
well it’s not so much about the
well it’s not so much about the photographer but about who’s on the
photographer but about who’s on the
photographer but about who’s on the other side
other side
other side last slide from the Chicago era so these
last slide from the Chicago era so these
last slide from the Chicago era so these were times of turmoil and disruption
were times of turmoil and disruption
were times of turmoil and disruption Martin Luther King’s organization was
Martin Luther King’s organization was
Martin Luther King’s organization was still in Chicago Jesse Jackson beat the
still in Chicago Jesse Jackson beat the
still in Chicago Jesse Jackson beat the Reverend took over that organization
Reverend took over that organization
Reverend took over that organization after King’s demise and I found myself
after King’s demise and I found myself
after King’s demise and I found myself working with him and this man named
working with him and this man named
working with him and this man named Chuck Geary who was a Appalachian person
Chuck Geary who was a Appalachian person
Chuck Geary who was a Appalachian person were more Appalachian people in Chicago
were more Appalachian people in Chicago
were more Appalachian people in Chicago in that era era than there were there
in that era era than there were there
in that era era than there were there were anywhere else it was like up the
were anywhere else it was like up the
were anywhere else it was like up the Mississippi River so I found myself
Mississippi River so I found myself
Mississippi River so I found myself working with him I was sent there on my
working with him I was sent there on my
working with him I was sent there on my big first job I worked for the learner
big first job I worked for the learner
big first job I worked for the learner home newspapers in Chicago five bucks a
home newspapers in Chicago five bucks a
home newspapers in Chicago five bucks a photo Wow I knew I started my career so
photo Wow I knew I started my career so
photo Wow I knew I started my career so I working with Chuck and they were doing
I working with Chuck and they were doing
I working with Chuck and they were doing things like feeding the community
things like feeding the community
things like feeding the community educating the community all that
educating the community all that
educating the community all that community organizers stuff we just had
community organizers stuff we just had
community organizers stuff we just had one for president and bottom line I’m
one for president and bottom line I’m
one for president and bottom line I’m liking it but you know Chuck comes up to
liking it but you know Chuck comes up to
liking it but you know Chuck comes up to me one day says look your
me one day says look your
me one day says look your here all the time why don’t you just
here all the time why don’t you just
here all the time why don’t you just move in with us so I moved in with Chuck
move in with us so I moved in with Chuck
move in with us so I moved in with Chuck URIs family and that was another turning
URIs family and that was another turning
URIs family and that was another turning point because I realized to do good
point because I realized to do good
point because I realized to do good documentary photography you can’t come
documentary photography you can’t come
documentary photography you can’t come and go you can be an insider but for a
and go you can be an insider but for a
and go you can be an insider but for a while but you can’t come and go because
while but you can’t come and go because
while but you can’t come and go because you’re you don’t have credibility and
you’re you don’t have credibility and
you’re you don’t have credibility and those communities are very closed and
those communities are very closed and
those communities are very closed and they’re very wary and they’re very
they’re very wary and they’re very
they’re very wary and they’re very helpless and if you’re going to offer
helpless and if you’re going to offer
helpless and if you’re going to offer your help and you’re being asked to help
your help and you’re being asked to help
your help and you’re being asked to help you need to move in so I moved in with
you need to move in so I moved in with
you need to move in so I moved in with this family a week turned into a year
this family a week turned into a year
this family a week turned into a year and a half and as all stories and I tell
and a half and as all stories and I tell
and a half and as all stories and I tell my students a few of who are here today
my students a few of who are here today
my students a few of who are here today there’s a documentary clock you’ve got
there’s a documentary clock you’ve got
there’s a documentary clock you’ve got to start somewhere it’s 12 o’clock and
to start somewhere it’s 12 o’clock and
to start somewhere it’s 12 o’clock and then you’re working for 10-15 minutes on
then you’re working for 10-15 minutes on
then you’re working for 10-15 minutes on the clock and all of a sudden I got it’s
the clock and all of a sudden I got it’s
the clock and all of a sudden I got it’s forget him he’s just a fly on the wall
forget him he’s just a fly on the wall
forget him he’s just a fly on the wall you know he’s not important and that’s
you know he’s not important and that’s
you know he’s not important and that’s when you can work and you start working
when you can work and you start working
when you can work and you start working and it’s 10 after and 15 after and you
and it’s 10 after and 15 after and you
and it’s 10 after and 15 after and you know you’re heading toward you know the
know you’re heading toward you know the
know you’re heading toward you know the end of the story but eventually all
end of the story but eventually all
end of the story but eventually all stories in do you you’ve said what you
stories in do you you’ve said what you
stories in do you you’ve said what you had to say you’ve learned what you’ve
had to say you’ve learned what you’ve
had to say you’ve learned what you’ve had to lay learn it’s the second thing I
had to lay learn it’s the second thing I
had to lay learn it’s the second thing I want to say that I say to my students
want to say that I say to my students
want to say that I say to my students which is I’d like you to use photography
which is I’d like you to use photography
which is I’d like you to use photography as an instrument of Education not
as an instrument of Education not
as an instrument of Education not self-expression
self-expression
self-expression so maybe you can matter and they look at
so maybe you can matter and they look at
so maybe you can matter and they look at me like oh it’s too heavy and I go and
me like oh it’s too heavy and I go and
me like oh it’s too heavy and I go and it’s the way it is I had learned enough
it’s the way it is I had learned enough
it’s the way it is I had learned enough about this community it was time to move
about this community it was time to move
about this community it was time to move on so it was time to move west digging
on so it was time to move west digging
on so it was time to move west digging out things for this talk I came across
out things for this talk I came across
out things for this talk I came across this little document that was written in
this little document that was written in
this little document that was written in November 1970 another turning point and
November 1970 another turning point and
November 1970 another turning point and the primary thing here is Chuck let me
the primary thing here is Chuck let me
the primary thing here is Chuck let me into his life and into his family’s life
into his life and into his family’s life
into his life and into his family’s life and I had the position of a privileged I
and I had the position of a privileged I
and I had the position of a privileged I whoa that blew me away
whoa that blew me away
whoa that blew me away because finally I’m having these steps
because finally I’m having these steps
because finally I’m having these steps photograph what’s familiar photograph
photograph what’s familiar photograph
photograph what’s familiar photograph which are compassionate about if you can
which are compassionate about if you can
which are compassionate about if you can help help and then what a privilege it
help help and then what a privilege it
help help and then what a privilege it is to be allowed into communities to do
is to be allowed into communities to do
is to be allowed into communities to do that helping that set me that set me up
that helping that set me that set me up
that helping that set me that set me up for El Paso so next next step we’re in
for El Paso so next next step we’re in
for El Paso so next next step we’re in El Paso I come down here from the dark
El Paso I come down here from the dark
El Paso I come down here from the dark men living in the riots I’m in Chicago
men living in the riots I’m in Chicago
men living in the riots I’m in Chicago where’s the trouble on the border and I
where’s the trouble on the border and I
where’s the trouble on the border and I find that what trouble on the Borg Wow
find that what trouble on the Borg Wow
find that what trouble on the Borg Wow and all of a sudden I’ve been a
and all of a sudden I’ve been a
and all of a sudden I’ve been a black-and-white photographer from the
black-and-white photographer from the
black-and-white photographer from the beginning developing my little film and
beginning developing my little film and
beginning developing my little film and everything and there was no way to be a
everything and there was no way to be a
everything and there was no way to be a black-and-white photographer in Chicago
black-and-white photographer in Chicago
black-and-white photographer in Chicago in my mind this place blew me away
in my mind this place blew me away
in my mind this place blew me away instantly I had a job at UTEP is how I
instantly I had a job at UTEP is how I
instantly I had a job at UTEP is how I got here
got here
got here with three weeks they said you want to
with three weeks they said you want to
with three weeks they said you want to come down to Utah can you be here in
come down to Utah can you be here in
come down to Utah can you be here in three weeks I was there that’s not how
three weeks I was there that’s not how
three weeks I was there that’s not how they hire everybody don’t worry but I
they hire everybody don’t worry but I
they hire everybody don’t worry but I found myself here and you’ve run into
found myself here and you’ve run into
found myself here and you’ve run into the color and the animation of this
the color and the animation of this
the color and the animation of this border and yes there’s troubles on the
border and yes there’s troubles on the
border and yes there’s troubles on the border and there’s also great beauty and
border and there’s also great beauty and
border and there’s also great beauty and great aspiration on this border so I was
great aspiration on this border so I was
great aspiration on this border so I was on that this is a 1980 slide of the
on that this is a 1980 slide of the
on that this is a 1980 slide of the corner of Mesa and father Rahm which was
corner of Mesa and father Rahm which was
corner of Mesa and father Rahm which was 5th Avenue here and the color and the
5th Avenue here and the color and the
5th Avenue here and the color and the beauty and all of this was coming to me
beauty and all of this was coming to me
beauty and all of this was coming to me like the documentary could be more than
like the documentary could be more than
like the documentary could be more than heavy stuff it can be what it is by
heavy stuff it can be what it is by
heavy stuff it can be what it is by definition the documentation of a place
definition the documentation of a place
definition the documentation of a place and a people and what I’ve learned from
and a people and what I’ve learned from
and a people and what I’ve learned from this place is you know it’s my riches
this place is you know it’s my riches
this place is you know it’s my riches it’s my adulthood which is family and
it’s my adulthood which is family and
it’s my adulthood which is family and loyalty and that energy between two
loyalty and that energy between two
loyalty and that energy between two distant and disparate things can be very
distant and disparate things can be very
distant and disparate things can be very in enriching and empowering so I started
in enriching and empowering so I started
in enriching and empowering so I started to realize I don’t have to tell heavy
to realize I don’t have to tell heavy
to realize I don’t have to tell heavy stories here I can just tell stories
stories here I can just tell stories
stories here I can just tell stories this is Fred tourist Fred tourist lives
this is Fred tourist Fred tourist lives
this is Fred tourist Fred tourist lives where I’ve lived for 37 years on Alameda
where I’ve lived for 37 years on Alameda
where I’ve lived for 37 years on Alameda Street three blocks from the bridge and
Street three blocks from the bridge and
Street three blocks from the bridge and Fred saw me photographing out in the
Fred saw me photographing out in the
Fred saw me photographing out in the street he says you want to come into my
street he says you want to come into my
street he says you want to come into my house I’m gonna oh it’s one of these
house I’m gonna oh it’s one of these
house I’m gonna oh it’s one of these places you might not come out him and
let me tell you Fred’s story very
let me tell you Fred’s story very briefly fred is playing the yueqin 76
briefly fred is playing the yueqin 76
briefly fred is playing the yueqin 76 years old in this photograph this
years old in this photograph this
years old in this photograph this photograph was made in 1987 in this
photograph was made in 1987 in this
photograph was made in 1987 in this photograph he’s playing the ukulele that
photograph he’s playing the ukulele that
photograph he’s playing the ukulele that his high school sweetheart gave him
his high school sweetheart gave him
his high school sweetheart gave him singing the song she most loved in the
singing the song she most loved in the
singing the song she most loved in the room he was born in I’m going this place
room he was born in I’m going this place
room he was born in I’m going this place El Paso is so rich in stories so rich in
El Paso is so rich in stories so rich in
El Paso is so rich in stories so rich in culture so rich in family so I decided
culture so rich in family so I decided
culture so rich in family so I decided that’s all I’m gonna do I don’t really
that’s all I’m gonna do I don’t really
that’s all I’m gonna do I don’t really have a thing to do here I’m just gonna
have a thing to do here I’m just gonna
have a thing to do here I’m just gonna shoot who I meet and just tell their
shoot who I meet and just tell their
shoot who I meet and just tell their stories and that became the
stories and that became the
stories and that became the or project and I’ve showed the border
or project and I’ve showed the border
or project and I’ve showed the border project a few times in El Paso and
project a few times in El Paso and
project a few times in El Paso and elsewhere and you may I hope some of you
elsewhere and you may I hope some of you
elsewhere and you may I hope some of you have seen the work there was a new
have seen the work there was a new
have seen the work there was a new definition of documentary photography
definition of documentary photography
definition of documentary photography theory yes you walk between the lines I
theory yes you walk between the lines I
theory yes you walk between the lines I walk between Fred and I walk between you
walk between Fred and I walk between you
walk between Fred and I walk between you but I’m more and more aware now it’s the
but I’m more and more aware now it’s the
but I’m more and more aware now it’s the walk between not trying to become part
walk between not trying to become part
walk between not trying to become part of Fred’s life not trying to become part
of Fred’s life not trying to become part
of Fred’s life not trying to become part of Chuck’s life dad trying to be a Pima
of Chuck’s life dad trying to be a Pima
of Chuck’s life dad trying to be a Pima Indian from Arizona but walking in
Indian from Arizona but walking in
Indian from Arizona but walking in between two communication channels at
between two communication channels at
between two communication channels at one channel the people who live this who
one channel the people who live this who
one channel the people who live this who are the other side of my camera and the
are the other side of my camera and the
are the other side of my camera and the people like you who might have an
people like you who might have an
people like you who might have an interest in a Fred tourists and the
interest in a Fred tourists and the
interest in a Fred tourists and the richness of El Paso and how far back he
richness of El Paso and how far back he
richness of El Paso and how far back he goes into our history yes I’ve touched
goes into our history yes I’ve touched
goes into our history yes I’ve touched on the issues here I worked for the New
on the issues here I worked for the New
on the issues here I worked for the New York Times for about 26 years on the
York Times for about 26 years on the
York Times for about 26 years on the border I was a contract photographer
border I was a contract photographer
border I was a contract photographer until I took my recent job at NMSU and
until I took my recent job at NMSU and
until I took my recent job at NMSU and yes the the border has these issues
yes the the border has these issues
yes the the border has these issues immigration is one we’re all involved in
immigration is one we’re all involved in
immigration is one we’re all involved in that every day we turn on the TV or look
that every day we turn on the TV or look
that every day we turn on the TV or look at a newspaper we are all involved in
at a newspaper we are all involved in
at a newspaper we are all involved in that issue and I have a book I’m not
that issue and I have a book I’m not
that issue and I have a book I’m not gonna heart what do you call it wonder
gonna heart what do you call it wonder
gonna heart what do you call it wonder they call it Hawk a book but my book is
they call it Hawk a book but my book is
they call it Hawk a book but my book is called walking between walking wadis as
called walking between walking wadis as
called walking between walking wadis as my talk is called walking between the
my talk is called walking between the
my talk is called walking between the lines I’ve walked the border a lot
lines I’ve walked the border a lot
lines I’ve walked the border a lot you can’t avoid certain issues we can’t
you can’t avoid certain issues we can’t
you can’t avoid certain issues we can’t avoid certain issues but I think the
avoid certain issues but I think the
avoid certain issues but I think the issues are for you to decide not the
issues are for you to decide not the
issues are for you to decide not the photographer and I kind of like to make
photographer and I kind of like to make
photographer and I kind of like to make that point because I do teach journalism
that point because I do teach journalism
that point because I do teach journalism and we’re gonna we’re on trouble time in
and we’re gonna we’re on trouble time in
and we’re gonna we’re on trouble time in journalism because we we to survive as
journalism because we we to survive as
journalism because we we to survive as business entities there’s more opinion
business entities there’s more opinion
business entities there’s more opinion being offered than where it was offered
being offered than where it was offered
being offered than where it was offered because they don’t exist unless their
because they don’t exist unless their
because they don’t exist unless their base keeps buying the paper so bottom
base keeps buying the paper so bottom
base keeps buying the paper so bottom line I try to walk between that line
line I try to walk between that line
line I try to walk between that line it’s why I veered off into documentary
it’s why I veered off into documentary
it’s why I veered off into documentary photography solely because I really
photography solely because I really
photography solely because I really think it’s the without the audience
think it’s the without the audience
think it’s the without the audience being respected for their opinion about
being respected for their opinion about
being respected for their opinion about these things you can’t convince people
these things you can’t convince people
these things you can’t convince people of anything you can only do what I the
of anything you can only do what I the
of anything you can only do what I the second big thing I learned was I don’t
second big thing I learned was I don’t
second big thing I learned was I don’t somebody stole my Thunder here before
somebody stole my Thunder here before
somebody stole my Thunder here before because I said save the world the
because I said save the world the
because I said save the world the architect I used to think you could save
architect I used to think you could save
architect I used to think you could save that
that
that with photography I don’t think that
with photography I don’t think that
with photography I don’t think that anymore I think the only use it really
anymore I think the only use it really
anymore I think the only use it really can have is to remind people who want to
can have is to remind people who want to
can have is to remind people who want to be reminded of things of what they want
be reminded of things of what they want
be reminded of things of what they want to be reminded of that’s where I come in
to be reminded of that’s where I come in
to be reminded of that’s where I come in I’m the guy walking between the line
I’m the guy walking between the line
I’m the guy walking between the line gathering the information Thursday this
gathering the information Thursday this
gathering the information Thursday this is an immigration this is a levy I used
is an immigration this is a levy I used
is an immigration this is a levy I used to hang there I was soaked so crazy for
to hang there I was soaked so crazy for
to hang there I was soaked so crazy for doing this I actually left UTEP and just
doing this I actually left UTEP and just
doing this I actually left UTEP and just decided to be the photographer and the
decided to be the photographer and the
decided to be the photographer and the border and became the border guy you
border and became the border guy you
border and became the border guy you know this is last one of this color
know this is last one of this color
know this is last one of this color series there’s much more work I have to
series there’s much more work I have to
series there’s much more work I have to tell you by the way I showed this all to
tell you by the way I showed this all to
tell you by the way I showed this all to my students last Thursday just to sort
my students last Thursday just to sort
my students last Thursday just to sort of run him past it and they devastated
of run him past it and they devastated
of run him past it and they devastated me they stayed after class they cut my
me they stayed after class they cut my
me they stayed after class they cut my talk in half and they took out what 3/4
talk in half and they took out what 3/4
talk in half and they took out what 3/4 of my slides it was too long I hope I’m
of my slides it was too long I hope I’m
of my slides it was too long I hope I’m doing better with you but anyway this is
doing better with you but anyway this is
doing better with you but anyway this is a classic border thing there’s the
a classic border thing there’s the
a classic border thing there’s the border fence but there’s two two sisters
border fence but there’s two two sisters
border fence but there’s two two sisters from both sides of that border there
from both sides of that border there
from both sides of that border there there doesn’t need to be a fence there
there doesn’t need to be a fence there
there doesn’t need to be a fence there it really doesn’t this is one people
it really doesn’t this is one people
it really doesn’t this is one people however the cartel work came and I
however the cartel work came and I
however the cartel work came and I couldn’t ignore it because I was the
couldn’t ignore it because I was the
couldn’t ignore it because I was the border photographer so I said to myself
border photographer so I said to myself
border photographer so I said to myself if you’re the border photographer you’ve
if you’re the border photographer you’ve
if you’re the border photographer you’ve got to do this and I didn’t like it
got to do this and I didn’t like it
got to do this and I didn’t like it it’s saddest time we’ve had it’s a sad
it’s saddest time we’ve had it’s a sad
it’s saddest time we’ve had it’s a sad time most a time I’ve ever had here is
time most a time I’ve ever had here is
time most a time I’ve ever had here is friends in trouble The Laugh was gone
friends in trouble The Laugh was gone
friends in trouble The Laugh was gone from wadis but I had to do it so I went
from wadis but I had to do it so I went
from wadis but I had to do it so I went over you won’t be seeing anything bad
over you won’t be seeing anything bad
over you won’t be seeing anything bad here what I have lots of it but what I
here what I have lots of it but what I
here what I have lots of it but what I wanted to tell you was the grief is what
wanted to tell you was the grief is what
wanted to tell you was the grief is what really impressed me the grief of that
really impressed me the grief of that
really impressed me the grief of that war I don’t know if that war is over or
war I don’t know if that war is over or
war I don’t know if that war is over or it’s back between the curtains but the
it’s back between the curtains but the
it’s back between the curtains but the bottom line is it’s a better time here
bottom line is it’s a better time here
bottom line is it’s a better time here this is the time to be happier and if
this is the time to be happier and if
this is the time to be happier and if you go to what is now you’ll see the joy
you go to what is now you’ll see the joy
you go to what is now you’ll see the joy and the animation and the it’s wadis
and the animation and the it’s wadis
and the animation and the it’s wadis again and it’s a new widest so it’s
again and it’s a new widest so it’s
again and it’s a new widest so it’s incredible for our city I got to wrap
incredible for our city I got to wrap
incredible for our city I got to wrap this up pretty quick gathering people’s
this up pretty quick gathering people’s
this up pretty quick gathering people’s stories this woman abandoned in the
stories this woman abandoned in the
stories this woman abandoned in the Lower Valley here they came with her
Lower Valley here they came with her
Lower Valley here they came with her husband here he didn’t come back
husband here he didn’t come back
husband here he didn’t come back these are little stories these are sad
these are little stories these are sad
these are little stories these are sad stories and they they fold into that
stories and they they fold into that
stories and they they fold into that this is Latin second-to-last photo and
this is Latin second-to-last photo and
this is Latin second-to-last photo and in the series this is a wedding on the
in the series this is a wedding on the
in the series this is a wedding on the bridge I find that real happy it’s a
bridge I find that real happy it’s a
bridge I find that real happy it’s a total illustration of our problem here
total illustration of our problem here
total illustration of our problem here though he is from what is and he can’t
though he is from what is and he can’t
though he is from what is and he can’t get paper
get paper
get paper to come over as she is from El Paso as
to come over as she is from El Paso as
to come over as she is from El Paso as she can’t get papers to come over but
she can’t get papers to come over but
she can’t get papers to come over but they love each other so what do you do
they love each other so what do you do
they love each other so what do you do you get married on the top of the bridge
you get married on the top of the bridge
you get married on the top of the bridge then unfortunately you had to go back to
then unfortunately you had to go back to
then unfortunately you had to go back to your respective homes this is an
your respective homes this is an
your respective homes this is an illustration of immigration gone amuck
illustration of immigration gone amuck
illustration of immigration gone amuck this is an helicam praying in front of
this is an helicam praying in front of
this is an helicam praying in front of cross in front of Sagrado Corazon I
cross in front of Sagrado Corazon I
cross in front of Sagrado Corazon I asked her why crowded Corazon and not
asked her why crowded Corazon and not
asked her why crowded Corazon and not your church and Juana’s and she said and
your church and Juana’s and she said and
your church and Juana’s and she said and this is during the cartel war God has
this is during the cartel war God has
this is during the cartel war God has left what as I hope you’ll listen to me
left what as I hope you’ll listen to me
left what as I hope you’ll listen to me here I want to conclude this just by
here I want to conclude this just by
here I want to conclude this just by saying what I’ve learned about
saying what I’ve learned about
saying what I’ve learned about photography is there’s nothing without
photography is there’s nothing without
photography is there’s nothing without you there’s them and you and I’m just
you there’s them and you and I’m just
you there’s them and you and I’m just the person walking in between those
the person walking in between those
the person walking in between those lines I hope you got something from this
lines I hope you got something from this
lines I hope you got something from this [Applause]
”
Be First to Comment