Dr. John Andrews
Part 2 OSHO Evening Meeting The Art of Listening
and then I went and did a research project
because I really wanted to understand
I looked for every single reference I could find
of OSHO speaking on OSHO speaking.
What’s actually
What’s the plot? What’s the play?
What’s. What’s actually going on?
right and there are many many many references
and I recommend you to exactly that
go to osho.com library
and just type in “listen*” – wildcard, asterisk
– space “me” and that will get you started
with maybe hundreds of references.
Where you can start to really dig down
into what this is all about.
And tonight I will just give you a few
little snippets from that.
A few years ago, I was doing a
session with somebody and,
like I normally would,
I asked him,
“So the evening meeting is fine
and everything is going ok?”
And I just got the feeling
that the light wasn’t going on.
He didn’t seem to respond at all.
So I said, “Well, I did all this research,
for me, just to try and understand
what Osho is explaining about it,
and I can share that with you if you like?”
He said, “Totally fine.” Which I did.
And he came back a week later….
Now this guy had been involved in Osho’s work,
then, for about 40 years.
A long time.
And comes back a week later and says,
“You know, I meditated for the first time
three days ago.”
So, I really alert you to how easy
it is to miss the whole plot.
Supposing I said, “There’s a plan to build a
lovely pyramidal auditorium,
just near you in your city.
So you could go any night you liked,
just round the corner.”
Amazing! Right? And then you might say,
“Yes, but what about all the people
who live close to this auditorium?”
If you go down North Main Road…
think how many people you are going to meet:
“Osho only!” “Meditation!” Right?
And they don’t make it.
A few do but not many.
Out of all those people
hardly any of them make it. Why?
It is not because it is a little cheaper
than a couple of seats for a Hindi movie.
And not because they are stupid.
But because it is very easy to misunderstand.
Everything around Osho is easy to understand
and easy to misunderstand.
And with our track record, guess what?
So, it really important to just
give yourselves the opportunity
of understanding how this works.
And it is quite subtle, as you will see.
So, let’s now just look at
the actual part of the process called
“The Art of Listening.”
Ok, just look at that…
how that unfolds.
So, let’s say you arrive.
You go to the Welcome Morning.
Someone will introduce you to the
Evening Meeting and they will explain,
exactly Osho’s words,
you just listen like you are listening
to the sound of the wind
through the trees.
Or you listen like you listen to the
sound of running water.
Or you listen like
you are listening to music. Mmm?
What the hell does that mean? Right!
Ok, so, I guess…? Ok,
so then you go to the Evening Meeting
and there you are sitting there
wondering how on earth
I am going to listen like I am listening
to the wind through the trees…
whatever that means.
But anyway, let’s give it a try.
And there you are sitting there
and Osho suddenly pisses
all over your favorite sacred cow.
Suddenly Mahatma Gandhi is a
really mediocre politician!
Just using religion to
gather numbers. Huh?
It’s a bit rude, isn’t it?
This is a spiritual discourse, right?
It’s ok to disagree with people
but you don’t have to be
rude about it, do you?
So you are sitting there,
a little… sort of uncomfortable.
And then, next maybe,
Mother Theresa!
That’s Saint Mother Theresa.
Suddenly it is…
imagine scooping up Hindu babies,
flogging them to the Catholics,
and being against birth control
so there’s an endless supply
of Hindu babies to flog to the Catholics!
Think how ugly that is!
Well, this is really too much.
It’s ok to disagree with people
but you don’t have to be
that rude about them.
And you are now starting to get
quite uncomfortable.
And then maybe it is Pope the Polack!
Oh no, really.
This is really too much.
The Holy Father is only doing
his best and everyone is entitled
to a different belief system
and you know you don’t have to….
Just disagree but this is really
really too much!
So you are really uneasy.
Then eventually you quieten down….
It’s a little difficult to get up…
I guess I have to wait till the end.
I suppose I have to stay now….
And you kind of settle down….
Now Osho is up the road somewhere.
And here you have been doing your
busy busy, “What about Pope the Pollack….”
And Osho explains very precisely
that I have no interest
in persuading you of anything,
it is not about whether you agree
or disagree with what I am saying.
It is not about whether you like
or dislike what I am saying.
I have no interest in convincing you.
I have no dogma.
I have no teaching.
And that is not what we are doing here.
And, if anything is said
that resonates with you,
if you are present,
you will never be able
to let go of it.
And if anything is said
that does not resonate with you
– and Osho is talking to
many different minds –
if you are present
you will never be
able to hold on to it.
This is absolutely key
to the whole process. Ok?
This is not an intellectual
game of processing
language and words
and meaning and bla bla bla.
As he explains,
we are only going to be
able to listen if we are silent.
So, when he says,
so if you are present
then if it is for you,
it goes home, you will get it.
And being present is being silent.
So the whole game, yes,
the whole thing is a meditation.
And the access to whatever the content is,
is being present and silent.
And he talks about
something called “intrinsic wisdom.”
When something is absolutely
clearly for you,
it just goes home.
You just know it is right
and you know it is for you.
And it has nothing to do with
agreeing or disagreeing,
or approving or disapproving,
or, “that is not what my mum said.”
It has nothing to do with
this intellectual process.
It just knows what it knows.
That is the process involved
in the game of silence.
And you just think how this works.
So here you are.
You are doing your kind of
Pope the Pollack routine.
And, let’s be clear,
chances are that you not Catholic.
Chances are even higher
you are not Polish.
And chances are really high
that you are not the Pope!
So, one thing is really clear:
this has nothing whatsoever
to do with you.
And here you are,
running through your intellectually
programmed, tape recording about
how it is not appropriate to be making
comments about other people’s beliefs….
bla bla bla… the whole routine.
And meanwhile you finally settle down….
Osho is up the road somewhere
and maybe right in the middle there,
he would just
maybe say something like,
“No no, fear is not your enemy.
Fear is your friend.
Because it is only through fear
you discover courage.”
Phew! Why didn’t someone tell me
that when I was really tiny?
Amazing. Ah.
But unfortunately you were so busy
taking care of Pope the Pollack
that you missed it.
See the point? Right.
It is not to do with anybody else.
It is not to do with agreeing, disagreeing.
It is not to do with any
intellectual concepts at all.
It is simply a matter of being present.
That is the whole game.
So underneath this,
what is really the process here?
This game called,
“The Art of Listening”
– it is a very old proposal –
and the basic science
of it of course is….
You have all had the experience
of talking to someone and
they are talking while you are talking.
And you kind of…
you want to strangle them
because you actually want to say,
“If you don’t shut the fuck up,
how can you hear
what I am saying?” Right?
Everyone has had that experience, yes?
And you also know the experience
of the person who isn’t actually
speaking outwards while you are speaking,
but you can hear their rebuttal,
their answer is going
bubble…bubble…. bubble,
and as soon as you have finished,
it all comes out.
And you know they didn’t hear
a word you said because
they have been busy getting ready
their answer and their reply. Right?
So we all actually know that
people can’t listen if they are
either speaking outside or inside.
Ok? Now supposing your project
is to learn how to be quiet.
Supposing you want to learn
how to be silent.
Aha. You mean if I could learn
how to listen,
I would be learning how to be silent.
Wonderful idea.
And a very old proposal.
But of course,
until the age of microphones and speakers,
difficult to see its application.
You hear Osho talking about
Buddha talking to ten thousand monks.
But when you think about it,
without microphones and speakers,
apart from the guys in the front row,
everyone else must have been going,
“What did he say? What did he say?”
All the way back….
Who would have heard anything?
No wonder everything had
to be written down later.
So a very very different situation.
But now, you are sitting in the hall…
wherever you are sitting,
the sound reaches you.
Now one of the most difficult things
about meditation is doing nothing.
I mean we are a generation of people….
You want something done?
We are your guy! Doing nothing?
Wasn’t on my school curriculum.
Doing nothing? What is that?
Doing nothing?
I have no idea what it means really.
And that is the key to meditation.
Being totally passive
and yet totally present.
Mmm..That’s a
strange combination actually.
And when you think about it
you can’t blink your ears
even if you want to.
You can’t blink your ears.
Right? So, wherever you are
in the hall,
the sound reaches you.
You don’t have to do anything
in order to participate
in the process of listening,
which requires you to simply do nothing
but be present.
So, it is a pretty subtle,
neat doorway to the
whole game of meditation.
Ok? So, that is how…
this is the beginning of
how to get the hang of
how this works.
And, just so you know,
one of the things Osho says is
I am not trying to…
the words are not the message.
The message is not the words.
Actually the words are just
containers for the message.
Or he will say the message is
in the space between the words.
Anything to confuse our programmed
idea that if someone is speaking,
this is what I have been trained
since this age to do.
Compare, contrast, agree, disagree,
approve, disapprove, bla bla bla bla.
Exactly what we have been trained to do.
And now, the challenge here is can I
unlearn this habit
of how I respond to language
in an intellectual way,
and could I actually move
from mind to no-mind
and discover how to respond….
Yes it is language,
but it is more responding
like it is a sound… like music.
Now you understand,
like the wind through the trees.
Ok? So that is the subtly
of this business. Right?
How many of you are Italian?
Nobody? Ok, good.
And how many are first-language English?
Anybody first-language English?
Ok, so, the way to look on this
is not that this is the BBC
or this is a wonderful professorial
talk in English.
The way to look on it
is as if it is Italian opera.
Imagine you are sitting there
and enjoy every moment of two hours
of an Italian opera and you don’t
understand one word. Perfect.
It is not about language,
it is not about meaning.
It is not about clever ideas.
This is not a professor giving a lecture.
This is not guruji
out with all those words of wisdom
that you want to put in your pocket
and impress the neighbors
with at the weekend.
It is nothing like that at all.
It is a very very different process.
And one that takes a little getting used to.
And like with every game…
you have to start playing
to get the hang of it.
So, some other things
that Osho actually says specifically about
“Osho speaking.”
Interestingly, he says,
my purpose it totally unique.
I am only trying to give you
a space for meditation.
He says no one has ever used
speaking like this before.
Interesting.
And then he says something
really interesting where he says
one of the problems is that
you get lost in the speaker
and you forget the listener.
Now you think the natural thing to do…
this is a video,
clearly Osho is on the video,
and I am the enthusiast.
So I am going to sit in the front row
and watch the video. Of course.
And here he is saying
the exactly the opposite.
The problem is you get lost
in the speaker and forget the listener.
Mmm…. What does that mean you wonder.
And then he says…
when someone asks him,
what is the difference between
watching and witnessing?
Right. Great question.
Then he explains: you watch movies.
Then you think, what’s that?
Then he explains.
When you watch a movie
you are in the movie.
It is an exciting movie,
you are hoping the hero
doesn’t get shot
and the heroine survives
and everyone lives happily
ever after… or whatever
the whole thing is….
You are really involved.
That is what a good movie is.
And here he is saying,
basically that we are not interested….
When you go to a movie,
it is all about watching the movie. Right.
Then he explains.
This situation is totally different.
Here, what we are doing
is we are watching the moviegoer.
Mmm? It is not about the object.
It is: is there anyone there watching?
And then adds on and says,
it doesn’t matter what you are listening to,
the question is whether
there is anyone there listening.
So, all our perception is…
it is 180 degrees different.
This is what I am actually
putting my awareness into now.
This is what you are putting
your awareness into.
What you are listening to doesn’t matter,
as long as you are present, and listening.
The content is completely separate.
It is the listener that counts.
Now you think how tricky this is.
This is really strange.
And you can experiment.
Go to tea break,
go tomorrow and just sit in
the tea break and just say,
“Oh, I really want to go to the
Evening Meeting tonight,
because I really want to watch the video.”
Top of the class!
That is definitely the right thing to say.
And the next day you have another
experiment and you say,
“I really want to
go to the Evening Meeting tonight
because I really want to watch the listener.”
Mmm? Are you feeling ok?
Taking your tablets?
What?
Completely the opposite
of what you imagine.
So this is quite subtle.
And he talks about it from time to time,
but it is easy to be here for a while
and not hear him say anything.
The key is the Art of Listening.
Of watching yourself as the listener,
as the watcher.
It is all about the subject.
It is not about the object.
That is quite tricky.
That requires you to participate
in a way and discover what that means.
Me just talking about it is just a hint.
You have to actually walk the walk
and play the game.
I just don’t want you to think
you are turning up to a movie
and then wondering
why nothing is happening.
It is quite subtle.
One of the most interesting
talks at that time…
and you can see how little we really
understood from the questions.
Oh, by the way,
I must tell you something else
about language while I remember.
There was a question
from an American guy,
who arrives here
around that time and say,
well I am here with my Japanese girlfriend
and she doesn’t speak one word of English.
So, I am just wondering if she is
going to get anything out of this.
Back comes the answer
in a public talk:
I strongly suspect that your
Japanese girlfriend is going to get
much more out of this than you are.
It is not about language.
Ok. So really relax.
If you are sitting there
trying to understand the words,
that is not meditation.
Then you are in effort,
you are in concentration,
you are focusing,
you are tense, you are trying…
all the things that are absolutely
the opposite of meditation.
Which is that you are going to relax
and do nothing.
And be present. Tricky.
Anyway, this other question
I was going to tell you about
was when Osho was saying….
The question was:
apart from your talks,
would 20 minutes a day
of meditation be enough?
Well you only have to be here
about five minutes to know
that 20 minutes a day is not
anything close to what
Osho is talking about.
He is talking about meditation
being a lifestyle,
being conscious in your 24 hours.
Not something you go and do
for 20 minutes.
Anyway, he then looks
at the audience and says:
Apart from my talks?
I may be crazy, but not that crazy.
What do you think I am doing here?
These talks are the foundation
of your meditation, he says.
I know someone who has been
coming for ages…
she thinks that means,
aha, so you go to the
Evening Meeting to pick up
tips on how to meditate.
Anyway, easy to misunderstand.
So, Osho whacks the 20 minutes thing
pretty quickly and then comes
right back to this issue.
And this is really interesting.
He is talking about traditional Zen,
not Osho Zen, but traditional Zen.
That’s 14 centuries,
as he explains, one of the most…
what is the word he uses…
One of the most intense, I think is the word,
but it is good to get the word right…
valuable efforts of meditation ever.
Fourteen centuries.
And then he says, but
in spite of all that effort,
so many Zen Masters, so much….
And actually there is nothing
to show for it.
I can joke, we can joke:
a cup of tea, a bow and arrow,
and bunch of flowers and what is there?
What? And then he says
I looked as deeply as possible
into what was the basic mistake.
And the basic mistake I discovered,
he says, is that they are saying to you
the right thing,
but they are saying it to you
in the wrong way.
So, you wonder what does that mean?
And then he explains.
They are saying to you,
you relax, you be silent,
and you make no effort.
But then Osho explains:
now you are in a Catch-22,
now you are in dilemma.
Because if you don’t make an effort,
you can’t be silent.
And if you do make an effort,
you are wrong.
And that, he says,
is why I am speaking.
Because neither I am making any effort,
nor you are making any effort.
An opportunity to experience
silence with no effort.
So, when you look at that
you see what he is really saying….
Now you understand why
he is saying
this is a revolution in consciousness:
I am totally discontinuous
with everything that has gone before.
So what he is really saying is
that all this silent sitting,
and Zazen, and Vipassana
has a built-in contradiction to it.
Which make it really difficult
for it to work.
If you don’t make an effort
you can’t be silent.
And if you do make an effort,
you are wrong.
It is not meditation. Tricky!
And then he sometimes says:
people say to start with Vipassana.
I say end with Vipassana.
And his version of Vipassana
is very very different.
It is about just being conscious,
alert, aware, and witnessing.
So, he is really changing
the whole game.
And then goes on to explain,
I need you to be present for
each word I am speaking.
I need you to be present…
for each sound…
and then explains
that every now and again,
when I unexpectedly stop,
and there is a gap, you are present,
alert, waiting and….
An opportunity to fall into a very
empty space of meditation.
He is very clear about how that works.
But the precondition is
we are present for every moment.
Which is also our way of
learning meditation.
So, everything is included.
So, now let’s just look
at an example of…
take Vipassana as an example.
Because now you will see
the connection with where, in a way,
the history of consciousness came from
and now where it is going.
So, let’s take Vipassana.
Let’s say you notice that
all your life,
everybody has been saying to you,
to make sure you turn up for this,
or make sure you turn up for that,
and make sure you turn up for the other,
school, your mum’s funeral,
or your dad’s whatever… constantly.
And you never hear anyone
who got reminded to make sure
they turn up for their own life.
Mmm. Funny suggestion,
but actually, now you mention it,
how did that get left off the list?
Because, you can manage without
dad’s funeral,
but not your own life! That is crucial.
So, then you say, ok,
but what does that mean?
How would you turn up
for your own life?
So, let’s say we wanted to know
where this lady was.
She could be there going…
god I hope this doesn’t go on too long…
I have got a date later.
We don’t know.
But at least we do know
her body is here.
So, this guy can be anywhere,
this guy is always present.
So, if you said, how am going
to learn to turn up and be present,
we are going to use
some physical sensation…
some sensory phenomena,
which by definition is present.
So, Buddha’s idea, a genius idea:
watch the breathing.
You can’t not breathe anyway,
and there are little gaps between
the in-breath and the out-breath…
so Vipassana traditionally,
Buddha’s idea of Vipassana,
watching the breathing.
And if you notice the breath
chances are you are here,
And if you missed it,
chances are you are somewhere else.
A wonderful idea.
So, let’s take that as a starting point
because that is we are familiar with…
something we are familiar with.
So, there you are sitting there,
doing your Vipassana, breathing in…
little gaps… breathing out…
breathing in… and breathing out…
and everything is going
really well today.
Staying present… in and out…
and in and out…. And suddenly….
There is a black out.
Then the next thing you know is…
you are going, “Actually,
if I get up early, and pack my suitcase,
empty my room, put my suitcase
in Fred’s room.
I could take the bus, get across town,
take a cab maybe, but get to the bank,
get the money from the bank
and give the money to Bill,
get back to the hotel,
pick up my suitcase,
and I think I could probably
get to the airport on time.
I think that could probably work.”
You have friends like that?
You have friends like that, yes?
This is really interesting.
Here you are present, you are present,
and suddenly there’s a blackout.
Which by definition is unconscious.
That is what a blackout is.
It is unconscious, right?
We are in a daydream.
And suddenly we have noticed
the suitcase routine.
Have any of you done Dynamic yet?
So, there you are,
it is six twenty-five in the morning
and you are jumping up and down
with your hands high in the air,
landing on the flats of your feet,
going, “Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!”
in your long maroon cocktail dress,
going, Jees, what am I doing?
I am meant to be
on holiday in India.
Is this a dream?,
you might be saying to yourself.
Now what is really interesting
is how readily we will question
whether reality is a dream.
It is common.
What we don’t do is question
whether a dream is reality.
And if we did, we would wake up.
What that means is, conversely,
the moment we notice
the suitcase conversation,
it means we have woken up,
and we are back.
So, you are here,
you are watching your breathing,
whatever it is…. There is a blackout…
you notice something which means
you have come back, you are awake.
You are back.
So, don’t now have a conversation
about a conversation.
You are back. Finish. Right?
Now the first interesting question is,
how long was I away?
One breath is pretty similar
to the next one.
Did I miss lunch? How would I know?
And you have all been
in the Evening Meeting and
you have had the experience of…
you are sitting there and then
suddenly you have spaced out
missed the first line of the joke.
Now everyone is laughing and
you want to nudge your neighbor…
what did he say…? You know that situation?
So, what you have already demonstrated
is that in these more mechanical,
physical meditations, like Vipassana,
a repetitive process,
there’s no way of knowing your absences.
In this situation,
it is now possible to be conscious
of your absence.
Now why is that important?
That is important because…
everything here is based
on one simple hypothesis.
And that is:
Whatever it is that we get to see,
as in seer, as in watching,
witnessing, the experiencer….
Whatever we get to see,
if it is an authentic, real, natural part
of whoever we are meant to be,
the very process of seeing it
is all that is required
to ensure that it flowers.
And conversely,
if whatever we get to see
is not an authentic part of whoever
we are meant to be,
just some second-hand doodoo
we picked up from our culture,
our society, our family,
whatever, whatever, whatever….
Not intrinsically you,
just a second hand something or other….
The very process of seeing it is
all that is required for it
to fall away on its own.
Now that is the most incredible
proposal you can imagine.
Hence there is only watching.
If that is true,
that watching really divides
the real from the unreal,
the authentic from the inauthentic,
what else would we need?
So that is an incredible proposal.
And because being present
is the natural space,
the natural state,
and it is the habit of being
not present which is the unnatural space,
the very process of noticing
our absences bring us closer
and closer to being present.
Brilliant. Ok?
So, what have we really done?
We have gone from this
physical sensation…
to this physical sensation.
Because it just happens that
every time your eardrums move,
it makes a sound inside your head.
Which, if you notice,
chances are you are present,
and if you don’t notice,
chances are you are absent.
Exactly the same methodology.
With some major upgrades,
which we could clearly do
with after twenty-five centuries.
”
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